richedg Posted June 17, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 17, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi folks After a very long wait I am the owner of a brand new Noct for my M8. Sadly the first thing that I noticed was that the lens back focused by several inches. I have read the threads on this forum on adjusting the rangfinder using an 2mm allen key. So with some trepidation I adjusted the focus. I was able to get the Noct to focus very much more accurately. However when I then checked my other lens I found that the 135, 90 and 35 were now not foucing correctly! I have been able to readjust the focus so that these lens are now focusing correctly (I think that they are now focusing more accurately than they had before so that is a positive thing!), the unahppy part is that the Noct is now again backfocusing. This suggests that I need to have the lens adjusted. Questions: do I need to send the M8 and the Noct to be adjusted or just the Noct? Are there other options that I should consider first that might help? I am in New Zealand so sending my camera and lens to the other side of the world will take at least a month. This would be a very sad thing indeed. Any suggestions would be very appreaciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 17, 2007 Posted June 17, 2007 Hi richedg, Take a look here Noctilux and rangefinder adjustments. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wlaidlaw Posted June 17, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 17, 2007 Hi folks After a very long wait I am the owner of a brand new Noct for my M8. Sadly the first thing that I noticed was that the lens back focused by several inches. I have read the threads on this forum on adjusting the rangfinder using an 2mm allen key. So with some trepidation I adjusted the focus. I was able to get the Noct to focus very much more accurately. However when I then checked my other lens I found that the 135, 90 and 35 were now not foucing correctly! I have been able to readjust the focus so that these lens are now focusing correctly (I think that they are now focusing more accurately than they had before so that is a positive thing!), the unahppy part is that the Noct is now again backfocusing. This suggests that I need to have the lens adjusted. Questions: do I need to send the M8 and the Noct to be adjusted or just the Noct? Are there other options that I should consider first that might help? I am in New Zealand so sending my camera and lens to the other side of the world will take at least a month. This would be a very sad thing indeed. Any suggestions would be very appreaciated. Richard, I can appreciate your disappointment. I was in a similar situation, where I bought a Noctilux from another forum member just after it had come back from Solms, having had a clean/service and coding. It was focusing wrongly by 1.5 meters at 8 meters. The focus ring showed just under 10 meters when the object was at 8 meters distance. The image was not sharp. If you ignored the rangefinder and focused by measuring tape and setting the distance on the focus ring, the image was sharp. Apparently the lens was just fine before the service. I have a helpful local Leica shop near my UK house. We checked that it was doing the same thing on two other M8 bodies. My M8 focuses like yours, well on other lenses, including an Elmarit 90. I played around with the focus cam but that just threw out the other lenses. I came to the conclusion that the Noctilux was wrong and it has gone back to Solms. I decided that the M8 should not go back. Each lens should focus on any body. Each body should focus on any lens. I have banged on about this at length on other threads. The concept of tuning a lens to a body is a total absurdity. My Noctilux has now been tested at Solms and "gone for repair". I assume therefore it was found wanting. I also suspect they mean joined the bottom of the repair queue rather than gone for repair. In that this was a failed previous repair, they have promised to give it priority but I am not sure what that means. Edmund Ronald, one of our forum profiles experts, has a 35mm Summilux also at Solms for a re-repair and it has been there for over 3 months now. To summarise. I think you have to send your Noctilux back to Solms, as I would seem to be wrong, if the back focus is outside the depth of focus and as it is under warranty. I don't think you need to send your M8 back as it is OK on other lenses. However if there is any was you can cross check the Noctilux on another M8, perhaps at a dealer, this would be wise. Hope all this helps. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibob Posted June 17, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 17, 2007 Richard ,if youre in Auckland and you want to try it on another M8 let me know. cheers rob (Titirangi) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted June 17, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 17, 2007 Richard, while you say this is a newly bought lens you don't say if it was bought from a dealer or supplied directly through Leica as part of the 30% offer. Not that it makes much difference but either way I would not accept a new lens which back/front focuses and then expect the lens to have to make a trip back to Solms for adjustment. The lens should be returned to the place of purchase and a replacement of correct function be organised with all due haste. It seems crazy that you should have to wait for repair on a brand new item, if it were any other consumer goods that were faulty out of the package it would be swapped out. I'm well aware of the shortage of Lenses and the lead times on Noctilux but that should have nothing to do with replacing a faulty one in the field. I wish you well in the outcome of this, which must be a huge disappointment given the wait you had and your high expectations. Disappointing to say the least and even more worrying as I have one inbound. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richedg Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share #5 Posted June 17, 2007 Hi and thank you for your concer/sympathy and advise. I really don't want to have to send the camera back with the lens. What I worry about Wilson is that if I send the lens and then it returns and still does not work it may be the combination of the Noct which is very demanding in terms of focus accuracy. If that happens then I would have to send the camer and lens off subsequently making the process much longer. I have been reviewing the photographs that I took this morning when I adjusted the lens and decided that I will spend more time readjusting the rangefinder focus for the Noct and the other lens to see if I can get them to be compatable. If there is a chance then I would really like to find a way to make it work. Rob thank you very much for the offer. I would like to take you up on the offer but I am in Hamilton (an hour and a half away) so I will have to come up to meet on a weekend when it works for you. It would be great to meet another M8 user and talk shop/technique, etc. Private message me when you get a chance. I purshased the lens directly from the shop at a very good price. I am kicking myself as my camera shop in Auckland had a M8 in stock and I did not think at the time to try the new lens on another body. i did try it on my body in the shop and immediately noticed that it was backfocusing. I was pretty upset. But I was hopeful that with the ability to correct the range finder focus I might be able to correct the problem. I did briefly consider returning the lens but I have waited for six months for one to arrive in NZ. The guy at the camera shop said that they have quite a few on back order and that they were telling potential customers that none would be avilable until next year! So I thought that I might as well keep the lens and send it to be sorted out if I am unalbe to get it working. That way I have a lens and its being fixed and will return at some point sooner than next year! I am an optimist! Thank you again for the comments Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
digibob Posted June 17, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 17, 2007 pm sent .fr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 17, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 17, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Richard, The 135mm lens you have must be at least as critical on focus as the Noctilux, even allowing for the very shallow DOF. With the M8, you can easily peer inside the DOF by taking photos of tape measures set at 45º or the infamous Nikon D70 chart here: Nikon D70 Focus Chart If you can get the 135 spot on all the way through the range and the measured distances are correctly reflected in the focus ring readings, I would not worry about the M8. From my experience, you will realize that a long holiday in Solms, is sadly no guarantee, that your Nocti will arrive back refreshed, healthy and ready for work. Having read Steven Lee's interview on LFI this month, I know they are working hard at recruiting and re-recruiting staff. Maybe things will be better next year. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjv Posted June 17, 2007 Share #8 Posted June 17, 2007 I live in NZ and have been waiting for my Nocti for just over four months. I waitied for my 50mm cron to be repaired for EIGHT months. I must stress that this was not the fault of anyone in NZ but what I have now accepted to be overloaded technicians at Leica. The lens actually had to be returned twice, so went to Germany three times total, before the actual fault it was in for was fixed (a very simple polish and clean of the back element it seems.) The Leica guys in NZ are very good and will do everything they can to help you if you're polite. Good luck and it will be well worth sticking in there, I'm sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 18, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 18, 2007 I was just thinking about this thread and to give an analogy, it's a bit like buying a brand new Ferrari, finding it does not start and being told that your options are 1) to wait in excess of 6 months for a replacement or 2) to send it back to Maranello for 3 months for repair. Would we accept that - I don't think so - you would be banging on the door of the nearest Porsche dealer before the day was out. So why are we so laid back when Leica are doing this to us, the customers? If Zeiss -Cosina can get their act together and finally produce the mythical digital Zeiss Ikon and extend their range of lenses a bit more, Leica could again find they are in trouble. Cosina's QC seems currently far better than Leica's. I cannot recall seeing a single complaint on this forum on the Zeiss ZM lenses and there are plenty of us using them. I bought my new 35 and 21 Biogons for the same price as one 35 Summicron. Do I regret it - not for a second. If Zeiss had made a Noctilux equivalent, I would have bought it rather than my non-focusing Noctilux. It is very easy to assume you have a loyal customer base, who will always be there. Rover probably thought that. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 18, 2007 Share #10 Posted June 18, 2007 :) This thread, together with my experience of backofucusing on some 35 and 50, makes me think that for the maybe-to-come M9 Leica could re-enter the glorious name of LEICA STANDARD, as they did in the '20s when they manufactured the first Leica body that DID NOT need to be specifically adjusted for the lenses:) (they listed 3 or 4 lenses only, at the time... before the introduction of the Leica Standard a certain body could use only a set of lenses which brought the last 3 digits of the s/n of the body... collectors value a lot a 2 or 3 lens set with proper body) Apart this semi-joke, I give my simpathy to our New Zealand friend : a Noctilux costs a lot: I would feel very angry if, after having PAID for it, I had to send it away for 2-3..6 ?.. months for adjustment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsjxyz Posted June 18, 2007 Share #11 Posted June 18, 2007 Try with other lenses first with your M8, if they feet OK, you might want to ask lens technition to calibrate your Nocti, to your M8 without having to repair the M8. In Indonesia, most technition afraid toying around M8 but they have no problem in calibrating the lenses. JSJ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted June 18, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 18, 2007 Hi Richard I make a good guess that my new Noct may be in the same batch as yours. Same story I've reported in this forum week ago. Backfocused for 1 - 2 inches at f1, and backfocus even more when stopped down. Just this lens because all my other M lenses focus perfectly well with my M8. I reported my case to Solms and receive their email today requesting me to send my Noct and M8 back.They will take 6-8 weeks and rectify it. I will ship it with a note that 'The issue is on the lens not my M8, so please just adjust my Noct and don't touch my M8. Otherwise, I'll need to ship all my M-lenses to you Solms again' =) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 18, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 18, 2007 Perhaps Leica should buy a Zeiss K9 MTF test bench and test every 5,000 bucks a pop Noctilux BEFORE they sell it or return it to a customer after an expensive service - not unreasonable I would have thought. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest zebra Posted June 18, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 18, 2007 Perhaps Leica should buy a Zeiss K9 MTF test bench and test every 5,000 bucks a pop Noctilux BEFORE they sell it or return it to a customer after an expensive service - not unreasonable I would have thought. Wilson I hope they read it. Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 18, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 18, 2007 Perhaps Leica should buy a Zeiss K9 MTF test bench and test every 5,000 bucks a pop Noctilux BEFORE they sell it or return it to a customer after an expensive service - not unreasonable I would have thought. Wilson There is nothing wrong with this but if a user can tell in a store that the lens isn't focusing correctly, how does it get out of the factory that far off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted June 18, 2007 Share #16 Posted June 18, 2007 There is nothing wrong with this but if a user can tell in a store that the lens isn't focusing correctly, how does it get out of the factory that far off? Beats me too. My Nocti was 1.5 meters - yes 1.5 meters not 10.5 centimeters out at 8 meters after an expensive service and coding. You would be unhappy with a $5 Lomo lens being out that far. I can only assume that they are not being checked at all. An apprentice on day one should be able to spot that one. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 18, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 18, 2007 By the way, all of the Ferarri's I've purchased were perfect right out of the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted June 18, 2007 Share #18 Posted June 18, 2007 I didn't realise Ferraris came in a box. Shows you what a poor bloke newb I am. Sigh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted June 18, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 18, 2007 I didn't realise Ferraris came in a box. Shows you what a poor bloke newb I am. Sigh. The Matchbox editions do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leica DeOcean Posted June 18, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 18, 2007 I had a similar problem with the Nocti. At first, the Noctilux could not focus correctly at the infinity setting. It remained a double image in the viewfinder. This first time around, I sent both the Nocti AND the M8 to Leica, at Allendale, NJ. It came back and I found that it was better but did not check the M8 for the other lens which was a 28.f2.0 Then in Febr. 2007, I sent the M8 to Solms for the free "update" to all purchasers of an M8 before Dec of 2006. When I received the camera back, I tried out my other lenses this time, and again, it was the Nocti that did not function correctly. It seriously backfocused. My presumption was that the first time, the Noctilux was not adjusted in itself but rather the M8 that was adjusted to the Nocti. Now that the M8 had been adjusted by the Solms experts, I ruled out that the M8 was at fault. It had just been "reborn" into its original perfection. Therefore, I had the Nocti checked on another M8 at the dealer and against another Noctilux which they had in the store, and the "backfocus" was confirmed. This problem was "in the lens itself". Although it seemed like the repair of the Noctilux took forever in Germany, when it came back, ALL the lenses worked on the M8, including the Nocti, and I have been very pleased since. My dealer, Bergen County Camera, was extremely helpful in testing the lens and making test shots of test patterns and isolating the problem in the lens. Can't thank them enough. I hope some of my description here helps you. Rich .............. Good luck with your Nocti. M8, Noctilux, 75mm Summilux, 35mm Summilux ASPH 28mm Summicron ASPH. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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