21mm for MP-240

[Distagon]

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And the solution is so simple: Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21 mm Asph.

Yes, the flexibility of the WATE is very attractive, particularly as I do see myself using the 16 mm.

The cost... not so attractive.

And the SEM 21 would be a difficult lens to give up in favour of the WATE.

Your comments on the comparison between the WATE and SEM 18 were interesting as most other comparisons I've seen give a clearer advantage to the SEM, particularly for edge performance.

Thanks.

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[djmay]

So you use the M by day and the S by night?

:-)

You have superior detective powers. Yes, I came back to this same location the next night for a shot with the S. I waited more than an hour until the light was right.

Jesse

[EoinC]

Don't forget the Super Angulon (f/3.4 or 4.0). A wonderful lens. I use mine on both a M6 and a Monochrom...

A003 by Eoin Christie, on Flickr

[mmx_2]

Yes, couldn't agree more, the SA is great on the Monochrom (on v2 the light meter works good in advanced mode). I had the first generation Elmarit for a while but it was big and bulky and I always preferred the rendering of the SA. Never tried the asph version if the Elmarit but I did own the Zeiss ZM f2.8 and it was really, really good. Never liked the 1/3step Aperture dial and the colors where a bit cool (a matter of taste), sharpness and contrast was very, very good (much better than the Elmarit non asph). I've tested the Super-Elmar and it outperforms everything. I can't say for sure (haven't tested them all;)) but I would believe that the SEM is the best super wide angle no matter brand or speed.

[djmay]

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One more example of M-P 240 with 21mm Elmarit-M

[MarkP]

Lowres-1006812.jpg

One more example of M-P 240 with 21mm Elmarit-M

 

 

Well you snuck that one in when the guards weren't looking and shouting 'NO PHOTO! NO PHOTO!' the whole time.  I found that having prefocused my M9 I could happily shoot up from the waist with absolute discretion.

 

My understanding is that this in NOT to protect the ceiling from millions of flashes (which would make sense ) but because there is a 'copyright' on the chapel ceiling imposed by the companies that contributed to the restoration of the ceiling some decades ago.  

[djmay]

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Well you snuck that one in when the guards weren't looking and shouting 'NO PHOTO! NO PHOTO!' the whole time.  I found that having prefocused my M9 I could happily shoot up from the waist with absolute discretion.

 

My understanding is that this in NOT to protect the ceiling from millions of flashes (which would make sense ) but because there is a 'copyright' on the chapel ceiling imposed by the companies that contributed to the restoration of the ceiling some decades ago.  

Yes, I did it in plain sight. I had the camera against my chest and stood looking up at the ceiling while I pressed the shutter very gently with my thumb. The quiet shutter makes it inconspicuous. 

 

Sony apparently paid for a lighting job for the chapel years ago and part of the agreement was that photos would not be allowed. I understand that the agreement has expired, however, the restriction was not removed.

Jesse

[uhoh7]

Funds permitting, I'd have a Voigtlander 21/4 for walkabout, a Leica 21/3.4 for technical work, and a 21/2.8 pre-asph for creative compositions, but they don't permit and I found a "user" condition 21/2.8 Asph that I suspect will fit the bill nicely. I think it is the best solution for my needs.

Hope this helps,

Jon

The Elmarit is fantastic, and fast. Is it bigger? I think so but have not checked. It's funny I began with a 21/4 CV but it was so much weaker than my ZM18 outside the central frame. So I bit the bullet and bought a SEM 21. I had meant to sell the Skopar. You know what? Now I often take it, as it's nothing in size.

 

I code as 21 Elmarit pre-asph on M9:

 

Yellow Giants by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Fall Blooms by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Riverside Fall by unoh7, on Flickr

 

So the Skopar does kind of work. I think F/11 if you really want corners.

[uhoh7]

And the solution is so simple: Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21 mm Asph.

 

No, really!

 

At 18 mm, it is on par with the Super-Elmar-M 18 mm Asph.

Well, not according to the charts:

 

TriElmar at 18mm by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Above is the Tri-elmar, and below the SEM 18:

SEM18 by unoh7, on Flickr

Not even close. In fact the SEM 18 by the numbers looks even stronger than SEM21, though often subjective reports say the opposite:

SEM 21 by unoh7, on Flickr

maybe the stronger tangential lines on the SEM 21 explain it's better reputation, along with that mild mid-zone dip in SEM 18 WO. The SEM 18 is one of the few wides which shoots as well on the Kolari A7 as the M240.....charts on the ZM 18, which I do love:

ZM 18/4 by unoh7, on Flickr

Now, real world, the ZM18 is really impressive, so those lines surprise me.

L1053995 by unoh7, SEM 18 WO

SEM 18 prices are down alot, ZM18 is kinda big....hmmm

[01af]

 

At 18 mm, [the Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21 mm Asph] is on par with the Super-Elmar-M 18 mm Asph.

Well, not according to the charts: [...]

 

I don't care about MTF charts when I have the lenses at hand for a real-world comparison. I compared two different samples of the Super-Elmar-M 18 mm Asph against my Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21 mm Asph in three different situations, and the result was always the same: no lens can out-perform the other. I was ready to give up the Tri-Elmar's flexibility for better performance, but no. I kept the Tri-Elmar.

 

But then, that's at 18 mm, and here we're talking 21 mm. The Super-Elmar-M 21 mm does out-perform the Tri-Elmar—but by a negligible margin, and at the cost of more vignetting. I'm still keeping the Tri-Elmar.

 

 

Now, real world, the Zeiss 18 mm ZM is really impressive ...

Yeah, and so is the Tri-Elmar.

[JonPB]

The Elmarit is fantastic, and fast. Is it bigger? I think so but have not checked. It's funny I began with a 21/4 CV but it was so much weaker than my ZM18 outside the central frame. So I bit the bullet and bought a SEM 21. I had meant to sell the Skopar. You know what? Now I often take it, as it's nothing in size.

 

I think the Elmarit Asph is slightly smaller than the Elmarit, and both are slightly larger than the Super-Elmar; this difference grows when hoods are factored in. All of them, though, are much smaller than the SLR lenses that I'm used to, so size isn't really a compelling feature for me.

 

On the other hand, the tiny size of the MS Optical Perar has an allure of its own... and Miyazaki-san appears to have optical priorities that I enjoy... tempting, tempting.

 

Cheers,

Jon

[pechelman]

The SEM is hard to beat in just about every regard unless you need something faster or less expensive. 

Everything about it is just right.

 

The other honorable mention that hasnt been discussed yet is the Zeiss Contax G 21mm 2.8 Bigon if you can get it converted or find one already converted. I chose this over the SEM for a handful of reasons. 

1. I shoot 21mm infrequently now, so I didnt want to spend the ~1k+ more for the SEM
2. I liked the thinner size and lighter weight...will make it more likely that I'll carry this "just in case".
3. The lens has full-stop increments which I prefer. (am I weird for that?)
4. It's also a tad faster. (barely)

In addition to those distinctions, I would say it's probably ~90-95% as sharp as the SEM (maybe not in the extreme corners) and just as / if not more distortion free than the SEM.

 

Downsides to this converted Zeiss is that it never had a hood for the Contax system and is a 55mm filter size. It also might have a very slightly issue with color shift near the corners/edges, but i have a hard time deciding if I actually see it being that I'm partially color blind anyway....and since I shoot a lot on the monochrom  and generally have to crop my 21mm photos a little, it really hasnt been an issue for me.  I have some pictures here on flickr if you're interested: 

 

Occasionally I consider switching to the SEM just so I can use my other 46mm filters, but realize how little I shoot 21mm now, and then I just forget about it. Really I should probably just sell the 21mm all together one day.

[uhoh7]

I don't care about MTF charts when I have the lenses at hand for a real-world comparison.

It would be interesting to see your comparison shots. The SEM 18 WO is so far ahead, I'd be very surprised you could not notice that.

[JCR33]

Even with SL, the Elmarit-M 1:2.8/21 is outstanding

 

[MarkP]

Even with SL, the Elmarit-M 1:2.8/21 is outstanding

 

 

 

 

Great photo and perspective JCR.

Were you visiting or are you based in Sydney?

[semi-ambivalent]

The Elmarit is fantastic, and fast. Is it bigger? I think so but have not checked. It's funny I began with a 21/4 CV but it was so much weaker than my ZM18 outside the central frame. So I bit the bullet and bought a SEM 21. I had meant to sell the Skopar. You know what? Now I often take it, as it's nothing in size.

 

I code as 21 Elmarit pre-asph on M9:

 

Yellow Giants by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Fall Blooms by unoh7, on Flickr

 

Riverside Fall by unoh7, on Flickr

 

So the Skopar does kind of work. I think F/11 if you really want corners.

Is that bridge on the way out of Chama, NM?

 

s-a

[JCR33]

Great photo and perspective JCR.

Were you visiting or are you based in Sydney?

 

Hi MarkP,

 

Thanks for the kind words. I live in Sydney.