Leica SL terrible low light performance.

[Peter H]

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You don't mention noise.

As I wrote on another thread, I am a wedding expert, as a client and father of three married daughters. Give me a photographer any day who is quiet and self-effacing with their equipment, not clacking and rattling at sensitive moments.

The right tool for this sort of job is one with a quiet shutter.

 

 

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

And now you mention it, there are quite a few attributes that a wedding photographer needs that are far more important than their equipment. 

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It's not about "needing" a D5 to shoot a wedding (I've done it most recently with a D4s, 14-24, 58 f1.4, 200f2, and 105 micro), it's simply a better tool for the job than the SL if you are shooting in natural light and want AF. The Nikon D# series cameras are great all-arounders if you don't need big resolution. They're similar in this way to the SL for me.

 

 

Not if you rely on the advantages of an EVF to make shooting a lot easier in many situations. I can easily switch to manual focus and still get a shot but I can't switch on live exposure preview, or have image review in the viewfinder or have a live histogram, which are far more useful to me. No EVF no sale. Simple as that for me. If there were D5 AF capabilities in a camera with an EVF I'd probably buy it. IF it had the dozen or so features I really really want first. The current one is crippled as far as my shooting workflow is concerned.

 

The SL does not have every feature I'd like in a camera. No camera does. But it has the most of my personally desirable features of any camera on the market today. So I prefer the SL for the most important stuff and I use either workarounds or techniques I've learned from 25 years of shooting to overcome the rest.

 

I'm not saying the SL is the best choice as a wedding camera. It is the best current choice for me though. As every camera has limitations at some point all of us are either going to have to find a workaround somewhere or sit and whinge it's the cameras fault. For me manual focus is a doodle. Instinctive. Second nature. I don't even really think about it and I switch back and forward with AF several times during a wedding.

 

Ultimately, every camera will have a weak point and it's our ability to adapt and overcome that makes us worth the money we charge.

 

Gordon

[dancook]

I have a feeling I'm going to have to get very cozy with the manual focus of the 70-280mm or preferably a Leica-M 50mm when the light gets like this.

 

 

[earleygallery]

Nice shots!

[dancook]

Nice shots!

 

thanks! this was the D750 with it's infallable autofocus 

 

 

 

 (really tongue in cheek here, no arguing please )

[jaapv]

I have a feeling I'm going to have to get very cozy with the manual focus of the 70-280mm or preferably a Leica-M 50mm when the light gets like this.

 

 

Very nice. But how would a Monochrom/Summilux 50 have  done?

[dancook]

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Very nice. But how would a Monochrom/Summilux 50 have  done?

 

Perfectly fine, they are manual focus anyway, there's no expectation of using AF.

[phongph]

Hi!

Pls refer the SL 601 shoot "low light" by Stevenhuffphoto and Streetsilhouettles with larger aperture as M Apo 50 f2, M 50 Lux f1.4 and Nocti 50 f0.95 lens!

https://www.google.com.vn/amp/www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/11/30/leica-sl-camera-review-my-camera-of-the-year-2015/amp/

 

http://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/8/23/leica-sl

 

Have a nice day!

Thanks!

[dancook]

Hi!

Pls refer the SL 601 shoot "low light" by Stevenhuffphoto and Streetsilhouettles with larger aperture, M Apo 50 f2, M 50 Lux f1.4 and Nocti 50 f0.95 lens!

https://www.google.com.vn/amp/www.stevehuffphoto.com/2015/11/30/leica-sl-camera-review-my-camera-of-the-year-2015/amp/

 

http://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2016/8/23/leica-sl

 

Have a nice day!

Thanks!

 

Sorry you may have missed this is about autofocus ability.

 

i do want the noctilux, but I will have to make do with a summilux until I can afford it.

[phongph]

Sorry you may have missed this is about autofocus ability.

 

i do want the noctilux, but I will have to make do with a summilux until I can afford it.

Hi Dancook!

I mean SL 601 with M Apo 50 f2 and M Lux 50 f1.4 is good in the low light. So I hope SL 601 will be better in low light with some coming SL lens as SL 50 Lux f1.4 or SL Apo 90 f2.

 

Thanks!

[dancook]

Hi Dancook!

I mean SL 601 with M Apo 50 f2 and M Lux 50 f1.4 is good in the low light. So I hope SL 601 will be better in low light with some coming SL lens as SL 50 Lux f1.4 or SL Apo 90 f2.

 

Thanks!

 

I don't think it will resolve the issue as I have seen it,

 

The reason I had the problem is that the subject was below 0 EV, when the subject is below 0 EV - e.g. -1 or -2 the autofocus begins to hunt. Now the Lux 1.4 SL might not have hunt as much as the 90-280mm but I suspect there will be a similar acquisition problem.

 

Why could it be a problem?

 

Modern sensor are great for recovering detail from shadow, and so photographers will expose to the highlights and this means subject itself might be -1/-2 EV which could be easily recovered. However because the AF system uses the same ISO and aperture that is set for the final image, it can struggle with the AF acquisition underexposed subject.

 

It doesn't matter if your aperture is 1.4 or 4.0 - something at -2 EV will be the same.

 

You need a point on your subject to be at 0 EV or more to achieve, probably, optimum AF.

 

-- 

 

Just ordered the 50mm 1.4 Leica-M Summilux ASPH, shooting a wedding next Monday - will use it in the evening, and possibly prep.

[phongph]

I don't think it will resolve the issue as I have seen it,

 

The reason I had the problem is that the subject was below 0 EV, when the subject is below 0 EV - e.g. -1 or -2 the autofocus begins to hunt. Now the Lux 1.4 SL might not have hunt as much as the 90-280mm but I suspect there will be a similar acquisition problem.

 

Why could it be a problem?

 

Modern sensor are great for recovering detail from shadow, and so photographers will expose to the highlights and this means subject itself might be -1/-2 EV which could be easily recovered. However because the AF system uses the same ISO and aperture that is set for the final image, it can struggle with the AF acquisition underexposed subject.

 

It doesn't matter if your aperture is 1.4 or 4.0 - something at -2 EV will be the same.

 

You need a point on your subject to be at 0 EV or more to achieve, probably, optimum AF.

 

-- 

 

Just ordered the 50mm 1.4 Leica-M Summilux ASPH, shooting a wedding next Monday - will use it in the evening, and possibly prep.

Hi!

I see your issue!

I tried M Lux 50 f1.4 on SL 601. It is very good lens in low light and nice bokeh on SL 601. I hope You will enjoy this len!

Thanks!

[R3D-D0T]

Very nice. But how would a Monochrom/Summilux 50 have  done?

 

 

Would've worked fine. Unless you suck at focusing with them.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

Hi Dancook!

I mean SL 601 with M Apo 50 f2 and M Lux 50 f1.4 is good in the low light. So I hope SL 601 will be better in low light with some coming SL lens as SL 50 Lux f1.4 or SL Apo 90 f2.

 

Thanks!

 

Unfortunately the SL 50 lux focus is too slow for speedy low light AF. Unless there's a firmware update.

 

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I don't think it will resolve the issue as I have seen it,

 

The reason I had the problem is that the subject was below 0 EV, when the subject is below 0 EV - e.g. -1 or -2 the autofocus begins to hunt. Now the Lux 1.4 SL might not have hunt as much as the 90-280mm but I suspect there will be a similar acquisition problem.

 

Why could it be a problem?

 

Modern sensor are great for recovering detail from shadow, and so photographers will expose to the highlights and this means subject itself might be -1/-2 EV which could be easily recovered. However because the AF system uses the same ISO and aperture that is set for the final image, it can struggle with the AF acquisition underexposed subject.

 

It doesn't matter if your aperture is 1.4 or 4.0 - something at -2 EV will be the same.

 

You need a point on your subject to be at 0 EV or more to achieve, probably, optimum AF.

 

-- 

 

Just ordered the 50mm 1.4 Leica-M Summilux ASPH, shooting a wedding next Monday - will use it in the evening, and possibly prep.

 

Sort of. I've had no problems in EV-2 with the SL. However in those conditions it's often hard to find a point of contrast. The light is often flat as a pancake and that's the real strength of PDAF. It doesn't need much contrast in the subject to grab a focus point. CDAF still moves slightly to register improving or decreasing contrast to confirm focus. Low contrast situations means a bigger movement to see a change in the contrast. Hence more hunting. Instead of looking at overall light levels like you will with PDAF you'll need to retrain to seek out contrast and edges that have a 2-3 EV contrast.

 

I am an early adopter of mirrorless. I don't really think about it anymore but there is a wholesale change in focus technique and focus points on the subject compared to PDAF. Everywhere you've considered a good spot to lock focus on with a D750 is a weak place to focus on with the SL. Instead of looking for places on the subject that have illumination or a larger mass you'll be retraining to look for edges and differences in contrast.

 

For the images above:

 

* Field or Zone over single point. Give the camera a bigger area to identify contrast variations. With an f4 zoom I'd probably go with Zone.

* Focus on the edge of the subject not the centre mass. Top of the head or the halo around the suit rather than the middle of the groom or a face like you would with PDAF. Don't even consider the suit or dress as suitable focus points except where the backlight rim is. With PDAF you'd avoid focusing on the top of the head so the AF didn't grab the background by accident. With CDAF that's exactly where you'd need to focus to get the contrast right, keeping a larger focus field over a small one. With the EVF you'll easily see the focus bite, even in a really dim room. Consider having peaking on as a visual guide.

* Rear button AF with some manual focus assist would be the way I'd set AF.

 

Personally I'd also consider the focus assist in this situation. I don't like focus assist generally but in reality it's more annoying to me than anyone else. Every person with a phone cam has their little torch turning on so they can focus and the SL system is much much faster than that and it's not white light. The SL assist really does allow you to focus very quickly in pitch black rooms.

 

To be honest, I'd have no problems with the SL under the conditions you showed above, with or without focus assist. Usually I get a DJ who thinks spinning coloured lights of the kind that are fatal to epileptics and that  are to be used all the time as my dance floor lighting. Then I'm either pulling focus from the edge of the floor or zone focusing from the middle of the floor with a WATE in hyperfocal. This is my dream dance floor lighting.

 

Gordon

[jaapv]

Would've worked fine. Unless you suck at focusing with them.

My idea too

[ramarren]

I have a feeling I'm going to have to get very cozy with the manual focus of the 70-280mm or preferably a Leica-M 50mm when the light gets like this.

 

 

 

 

I'd say, "Yes, most likely." I've never found *any* camera to handle AF and AE in those situations very well. Sometimes you get lucky with such a shot, but most of the time you have to tweak settings and/or focus anyway.

[LocalHero1953]

In parallel with my learning curve with focus and exposure in low light has been refining of the custom button functions on the SL, as I've realised I need to keep switching. I aim to find the fastest possible way of switching between focus modes: MF/AFs, static/tracking, spot/zone/field for focus and spot/multi exposure. Other functions have had to take a back seat.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

In parallel with my learning curve with focus and exposure in low light has been refining of the custom button functions on the SL, as I've realised I need to keep switching. I aim to find the fastest possible way of switching between focus modes: MF/AFs, static/tracking, spot/zone/field for focus and spot/multi exposure. Other functions have had to take a back seat.

 

I use the profiles.

 

Even more than that I have used some old 8GB cards as profile storage for different situations. I have a normal card which has the profiles I use 90% of the time, including my property and portrait photography profiles.. I have one for weddings, which has an AF and three MF profiles. One for landscapes etc. All the cards have the same standard profile just in case. It takes a few seconds to load the correct set of profiles before, for example, a wedding. My profile cards are labelled and stored in the last slot of my memory card wallet as well as backed up on my computer should I lose them.

 

It'd be cool if Leica would allow the SL app to store extra profiles that can be loaded when needed.

 

Sound harder than it is.

 

Gordon

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[dancook]

I wanted to update my conclusion on this, as I think I was wrong in my understanding.

 

Whilst to my naked eye, and to the EVF (with it's gain) a scene looked like it had enough light - at 280mm with F4 being it's widest aperture, the cameras view is was very dark. I've realised this now that I've been paying proper attention to the changing EVF levels during the process of capturing a photo.

 

To confirm, 

I tried a subject and at 90mm (it would have used 2.8 for focusing) in dim lighting it focused successfully, at 280mm it did not.

(i also set camera to f22 and ISO 100, do be sure it wasn't affected by my chosen exposure)

 

So when the light dims it's more than likely 90mm will keep going for a while using AF, whilst at 280mm it will suffer.

 

 

All my lenses up to now have been 1.2 to 2.0 - and I've never had an f4 lens before well and truly spoilt..

 

(I see my original issue was at 92mm @2.8 oh I give up now - it just is what it is..)