Which film m's appreciate

[michaelwj]

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Any cheap M2 in chrome with a serial number in a batch that also produced black paint models. Repaint the chrome one black, add some counterfeit paperwork and dubious wear, and viola, it appreciated!

 

(Jokes of course, don't do this)

[Beresford]

I have been wondering which film my M's appreciate. They are so well mannered that they are happy with any roll of 35mm film.

 

Actually, to be serious for a moment, one advantage of a film camera over a digital camera is that one can use fast lenses with slow film (i.e. Pan F).  Thus, at a wide aperture one can avoid the use of neutral density filters. 

[Martin B]

Yes, I agree - I bought my M6 online in January this year for $1K (non TTL version), now they go for at least $400 more. I believe there is increased demand for M film cameras out there - a trend visible in other online photo groups, too. Also the M7 cameras increased in price.

[wattsy]

I think there is also a reduction in supply - fewer nice examples popping up.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Herr Barnack]

 

Which film m's appreciate

 

All of them?

 

[michaelwj]

As for savvy buyer vs investor. 

To an investor, the purchase price is not really important, what is important is the profit margin on resale.

To a savvy buyer, purchase price is important, and you're really trying to avoid losing too much on resale.

 

With that in mind, and as a user, I buy affordable users. I bought my M6 for A$700 five years ago, and just picked up an M4-2 for A$750. In the worst case scenario, I can lose A$750 on a single camera, but it's more likely to be far far less than that. Used MPs go for A$3000 around here, doubling my "investment" and automatically exposing me to far greater potential losses.

[pgk]

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Which Ms are set to appreciate do you think?

 

Not mine . Somehow they seem to deteriorate cosmetically as I use them. As I try to buy ones which have already been used and show it, they won't depreciate too much either, but I very much doubt that they will appreciate.

[pico]

My personal take is that a Leica is not an investment if you expect a profitable return. There are very few Leicas that appreciate more than smart investments in, for example, stocks. Those  Leica collectors who have remarkable returns exist in a market of rarefied collectors of which there are very few and they trade among themselves.

 

A modest example is just one of my stocks which has doubled in value in five years while my most rare Leicas are worth almost nothing because the market cannot afford them. Therein is the definition of 'market'

.

[semi-ambivalent]

...as I use them.

How dare you.

 

s-a

[250swb]

Any cheap M2 in chrome with a serial number in a batch that also produced black paint models. Repaint the chrome one black, add some counterfeit paperwork and dubious wear, and viola, it appreciated!

 

(Jokes of course, don't do this)

A chrome M2 with a serial number fitting into batch of black paint M2's would be the rarest of the rare, and you want to paint it...............

 

But prices are steady for M's and going up, in the UK the biggest online retailer is asking for customers for film cameras for it's second hand department, a clear sign there is money to be made in good quality equipment.

[michaelwj]

A chrome M2 with a serial number fitting into batch of black paint M2's would be the rarest of the rare, and you want to paint it...............

 

 

Ha! Not the batches that only had black paint, but there are some that produced both black and chrome cameras, like the batch in the wiki starting with 1028601.

[willeica]

It is all here; this lists all Leica cameras and their value progress.

 

http://collectiblend.com/Cameras/Leitz/

 

The plain black M6 is more or less holding steady value-wise. You will see from this that there are many variants of each camera type with varying values. How well you do from an 'investment' point of view depends on when you buy and when you sell. You will see from this that some earlier cameras such as the double stroke M3 now fetch as much as the ordinary M6. If you are buying a camera primarily as a user, this is not really relevant. It is a whole other story if you are a collector.

 

William

[Martin B]

My personal take is that a Leica is not an investment if you expect a profitable return. There are very few Leicas that appreciate more than smart investments in, for example, stocks. Those  Leica collectors who have remarkable returns exist in a market of rarefied collectors of which there are very few and they trade among themselves.

 

A modest example is just one of my stocks which has doubled in value in five years while my most rare Leicas are worth almost nothing because the market cannot afford them. Therein is the definition of 'market'

.

 

I bought my Ms to use them, but if I would sell them now I could easily make $500 profit from my M6 and my M7. This is about 30-45% profit. I bought both of my Ms this year. None of my other investments come even close to such increase. 

[pico]

I bought both of my Ms this year. None of my other investments come even close to such increase.

Stocks would be better.

[Martin B]

Stocks would be better.

 

Then obviously you made much better (more risky?) stock investments than I did!

[chrism]

I appreciate them all. 

 

C.

[lincoln_m]

Used MP is nearly £1000 more than an M7 although they are the same price to buy new, so perhaps choose MP over M7. Black Paint Ms get brassy quick but chrome ones don't so if you want to use an MP for 10 years then sell it as Exc++ I'd advise a chrome one. You might love your BP MP but a buyer of the well warn 10 year old BP MP won't value it so it might sell for as low as an M7.

 

M6 (non TTL) seemed to have a wobbley shutter speed dial after 10 years so although they are £700-800 the quality (1970s) doesn't seem to be up to that of the M2, M3 of the 50s, 60s. The meter drains the battery on M6s only really fixed on the MP (and sort of on M7 but that's other issues with the meter, ISO, flashing LEDs etc).

 

An M2 from the 1960s at £600 is a slick machine  but doesn't change in price up or down over last 5-6 years.

 

I bought my MP chrome in 2003 for £1850 new and guess it's Exc++ and would probably sell for ~£2200 13 year's later

 

I bought my M7 black chrome in 2010 used for £1200 I guess it would cost the same today.

 

The difference with "investing in Leica" is that you can use them to take photographs which you can't with stocks. After 10 years you can get 80% back after paying commission (20%) but you have had 10 years  or more of photographic use out of your investment. So on a £2000 camera you've lost £400 over 10 years which is £40 per year to "rent" a Leica or less than £1 a week, bargain!

 

But we all know if we want to experience regrets then sell your Leica Kit. Actually it's not so bad if you buy newer Leica kit with the money from the previous sale.

 

Just buy what you want and enjoy it by using it. The film and processing is the real cost after the initial outlay.

 

Regards, Lincoln

[Martin B]

Used MP is nearly £1000 more than an M7 although they are the same price to buy new, so perhaps choose MP over M7. Black Paint Ms get brassy quick but chrome ones don't so if you want to use an MP for 10 years then sell it as Exc++ I'd advise a chrome one. You might love your BP MP but a buyer of the well warn 10 year old BP MP won't value it so it might sell for as low as an M7.

 

M6 (non TTL) seemed to have a wobbley shutter speed dial after 10 years so although they are £700-800 the quality (1970s) doesn't seem to be up to that of the M2, M3 of the 50s, 60s. The meter drains the battery on M6s only really fixed on the MP (and sort of on M7 but that's other issues with the meter, ISO, flashing LEDs etc).

 

An M2 from the 1960s at £600 is a slick machine  but doesn't change in price up or down over last 5-6 years.

 

I bought my MP chrome in 2003 for £1850 new and guess it's Exc++ and would probably sell for ~£2200 13 year's later

 

I bought my M7 black chrome in 2010 used for £1200 I guess it would cost the same today.

 

The difference with "investing in Leica" is that you can use them to take photographs which you can't with stocks. After 10 years you can get 80% back after paying commission (20%) but you have had 10 years  or more of photographic use out of your investment. So on a £2000 camera you've lost £400 over 10 years which is £40 per year to "rent" a Leica or less than £1 a week, bargain!

 

But we all know if we want to experience regrets then sell your Leica Kit. Actually it's not so bad if you buy newer Leica kit with the money from the previous sale.

 

Just buy what you want and enjoy it by using it. The film and processing is the real cost after the initial outlay.

 

Regards, Lincoln

 

To avoid the meter in the M6 from draining simply move the dial into the B position which acts as off switch. 

 

Newer (digital) Leica M cameras depreciate much faster than the film M cameras. For the difference in investment cost between a film M (like the M6) and a digital M (like the M9) you can buy a lot of film and all processing chemicals easily for a very long time. The advantage of digital Ms as with all digital cameras is faster processing and seeing the result instantly if the camera has a display. 

 

I agree with the other points though. 

[pico]

Drifting a bit - I have two potentially collectible Leica M models, black M2 button rewind and a black paint M4 but through a habit of disinterest they stay in dry boxes in storage which I'm unlikely to visit again. I am hoping for an equitable or fair way to pass their monetary value to my mate. Little hope there because I live in rural nowhere.

 

On the other hand, I have an unjustifiable emotional attachment to one lens not for 35mm, but for 8x10" (or full plate which is smaller). In my short life of 70 years I've seen just about all the Leica lenses I think exist, but this large format beauty was a find that could inspire a short story.

 

It was in a dresser that we considered purchasing. In one drawer was a lems rapped in white linen, it appears to have been never used. Never. You know how the Waterhouse  slot is always scratched. None on this one. The seller of the dresser was probably ten years or older than I and she said with a sigh of resignation, "I just want this stuff gone." I paid for the dresser and contents, left the dresser and kept the lens.

 

Today I live in a tiny house by choice. There is not a room in the house that allows use of this long lens. It's almost funny, but unfortunately not valuable for irony unless I consider I took this home after owning an eight bedroom home with a main floor of monster dimensions. Will I ever learn to bend time?

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[michaelwj]

I appreciate them all.

 

C.

You forgot to add: "except for the M5!"