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Leica M 10

rijve044

By rijve044
in Leica M10

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jlindstrom

jlindstrom

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I don't want an optical rangefinder at all, not anymore and not today, but I want to use my M lenses on a dedicated body and I am not alone

That's still in the "not going to happen" category. Closest thing to that are and will be Leica TL with it's aps-c sensor and the SL with it's full frame sensor. Both will require adapters.

 

The SL body isn't actually that much bigger than latest Sony A7Rii generation. About the same hight & depth, 20mm wider & 200g heavier.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

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lct

lct

Posted
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 I don't want an optical rangefinder at all, not anymore and not today, but I want to use my M lenses on a dedicated body and I am not alone

 

A compact SL would be welcome certainly but it would threaten the SL's survival i'm afraid. So far the only solutions are the next M if it's not sluggish in LV mode anymore (touch wood), or a modded S**y but don't repeat it please RickLeica will call me Darth Wader again :D;).

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Peter H

Peter H

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That's still in the "not going to happen" category. Closest thing to that are and will be Leica TL with it's aps-c sensor and the SL with it's full frame sensor. Both will require adapters.

 

The SL body isn't actually that much bigger than latest Sony A7Rii generation. About the same hight & depth, 20mm wider & 200g heavier.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

What matters isn't what the tape measure tells you but what the cameras feel like in your hand.

 

I find the SL too large and awkward whereas other similar-sized cameras feel far more comfortable. Others feel quite differently and tell us that the SL feels very like an M with a grip. However I like the M240 and others tell us it feels too bulky to them.

 

In any case, the tape measure doesn't help. If we all had the same bodies maybe these issues would vanish, but there might be other implications!

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jlindstrom

jlindstrom

Posted
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^ but tape measure can be quantified, where feel of things is completely subjective as you pointed out.

 

I'm very much aware of what the effect of feeling different has, I just can't put it to words.

 

For example, for me the M240 felt big & heavy. Now using M262 and the size is prefectly fine. So losing a little weight changed the whole camera, even though dimensions remain.

 

 

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LocalHero1953

LocalHero1953

Posted
Posted

That's still in the "not going to happen" category. Closest thing to that are and will be Leica TL with it's aps-c sensor and the SL with it's full frame sensor. Both will require adapters.

........

Agreed, I can't see Leica developing a M-sized body with M mount with just an EVF. A QL that accepts M lenses (as it would) is far more likely. Yes, that would cannibalise SL sales, but I suspect it would sell well. And Leica might even develop a line of compact L-mount lenses.

 

What it is difficult for us to tell is how much of Leica's design and manufacturing investment is buried in the SL per se or in the L mount and electronics system as a whole. If  (as I think) the latter, then as long as they sell L-mount lenses and bodies, and L-mount bodies can be manufactured reasonably cheaply, then they may not worry whether it is TL, QL or SL bodies that are sold: TL small and stylish; QL compact and MF (possibly AF, but no OIS); SL big zooms, biggest EVF and OIS.

 

Meanwhile the M remains as the legacy optomechanical option: you could call it a dead end (because no big developments can be made) but that doesn't mean it will not be sold. After all, the film Ms are dead ends as well, for the same reason.

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jonoslack

jonoslack

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What an interesting thread.

Thing I take from it is that Leica has no chance of pleasing everyone!

. . .

But what does seem to be the point is that there are quite a lot of people who actually want a rangefinder - not an EVF or a hybrid, just a rangefinder (maybe with a nice plug in EVF as well). I know I'm one of them.

 

For us, most of the ideas are at best superfuous, and at worst a disaster.

 

There is plenty of scope for making cameras which are great, and which are NOT M cameras (the Q and the SL are both great cameras) - I can see the argument for a small full frame body as well (clearly with an SL mount) - and that seems to be what a lot of people really want.

 

I just don't see the need to change the M into something else? Baby and Bathwater springs to mind.

 

If the specs on Leicarumours are correct, Then we only know that we've lost video and gained an ISO dial and a thinner body . . . . But both of these really beg the real questions:

 

How is the buffer?

What's the processing speed like?

How good is Live View?

What have they done with the menus / options etc.?

What's the high ISO like?

What's the colour like?

 

. . . And if you feel that the Visoflex 020 is old tech then it's worth noting that it has 3.7mp as opposed to 2.4 on the new Sony A6500 and the A7r mark ii - the new Olympus has 2.3mp. It's exceptionally large and bright, tilts nicely and has a good diopter adjustment. It's the same resolution as that in the Leica Q, but it's bigger and brighter . . .and it has GPS as well.

 

What I'm getting at is that if these specifications were to prove correct, then all it tells us is that Leica have stuck to the tradition of the M camera - but it doesn't give us a hint of what else they may, or may not have done . . As far as I can see it could be a home run . . Or not!

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edwardkaraa

edwardkaraa

Posted
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Agreed, I can't see Leica developing a M-sized body with M mount with just an EVF. A QL that accepts M lenses (as it would) is far more likely. Yes, that would cannibalise SL sales, but I suspect it would sell well. And Leica might even develop a line of compact L-mount lenses.

 

What it is difficult for us to tell is how much of Leica's design and manufacturing investment is buried in the SL per se or in the L mount and electronics system as a whole. If (as I think) the latter, then as long as they sell L-mount lenses and bodies, and L-mount bodies can be manufactured reasonably cheaply, then they may not worry whether it is TL, QL or SL bodies that are sold: TL small and stylish; QL compact and MF (possibly AF, but no OIS); SL big zooms, biggest EVF and OIS.

 

Meanwhile the M remains as the legacy optomechanical option: you could call it a dead end (because no big developments can be made) but that doesn't mean it will not be sold. After all, the film Ms are dead ends as well, for the same reason.

Agreed. There is no reason why Leica can't make a small non professional SL body and I think it's just a matter of time. The SL was marketed as a pro camera, so why not an "amateur " model in the future?

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pgk

pgk

Posted
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 I don't want an optical rangefinder at all, not anymore and not today, but I want to use my M lenses on a dedicated body and I am not alone

 

Why? What possible advantages can a none-RF body dedicated to M lenses have over any other body using a 6-bit code reading adapter? What are its potential sales - minute, because it will appeal to either those who already have M lenses or those wanting to use manual focus lenses on an unusual and expensive dedicated body - neither is going to sustain a substantial market. You may not be alone, but my opinion is that you are less representative of current and future M users that those of us who do want to use a traditional rangefinder.

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lct

lct

Posted
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Not everybody likes rangefinders. Some photogs (not here of course! ;)) seem even to believe that digital Fujis are RF cameras. But many people do like Leica (or non-Leica) M lenses and dream to use them on a compact FF mirrorless camera. I don't see why Sony should be alone to allow that. I do see why Leica may be reluctant to put a wolf in the henhouse though.

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Peter H

Peter H

Posted
Posted

Jono, do I understand from your post that you didn't test the new camera this time? :D

It's probably not fair to try to put him on the spot like that. But there's nothing to suggest that he hasn't. He's pointed out what he sees as the significant questions. That he hasn't answered them shouldn't lead you to conclude anything...

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cirke

cirke

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Why? What possible advantages can a none-RF body dedicated to M lenses have over any other body using a 6-bit code reading adapter? What are its potential sales - minute, because it will appeal to either those who already have M lenses or those wanting to use manual focus lenses on an unusual and expensive dedicated body - neither is going to sustain a substantial market. You may not be alone, but my opinion is that you are less representative of current and future M users that those of us who do want to use a traditional rangefinder.

On my M240 I use EVF only 

A Q with interchangeable lenses would not be for M users,  but many users  including myself want  small and perfect M lenses, I want to keep using my 50 APO or 28 summilux

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edwardkaraa

edwardkaraa

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It's probably not fair to try to put him on the spot like that. But there's nothing to suggest that he hasn't. He's pointed out what he sees as the significant questions. That he hasn't answered them shouldn't lead you to conclude anything...

Come on Peter, can't you see I was very gently pulling his leg? :)

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jonoslack

jonoslack

Posted
Posted

It's probably not fair to try to put him on the spot like that. But there's nothing to suggest that he hasn't. He's pointed out what he sees as the significant questions. That he hasn't answered them shouldn't lead you to conclude anything...

Hi There Peter

Don't worry -

If I don't want to be put on the spot - I can always keep my mouth shut :).

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