imants Posted December 30, 2016 Share #581 Posted December 30, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Do you really object to an M body with a built in EVF working in exactly the same way as the M lenses work on an SL? It wouldn't make for a smaller camera that a lot here are hoping for............. a bit like smartphones people wanted more technology but hated the thickness so we ended up with thin but larger phones. ****stop press smartphone manufacturers call for clothing companies to make larger pockets******* Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 30, 2016 Posted December 30, 2016 Hi imants, Take a look here Leica M 10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pgk Posted December 30, 2016 Share #582 Posted December 30, 2016 Do you really object to an M body with a built in EVF working in exactly the same way as the M lenses work on an SL? Bottom line - yes. Once the M changes it loses its uniqueness, its simplicity, its identity as a completely different sort of camera to use and its different way of working. I see all the arguments for modifying it but also see many alternatives which may well appear - eventually. A full-frame T with M adapter/electronic rangefinder perhaps - small, superbly designed and able to use both 'dumb' and intelligent lenses. Thing is, once the M starts to morph into something else it has to compete with lots of other cameras. When it does so it competes on unequal terms - with cameras using 'intelligent' lenses which, unlike some here, I think will deliver images which the 'dumb' M lenses will struggle to keep up with, optically superb though they are. I'd rather see the M evolve in other ways with subtle changes aimed at retaining its uniqueness. And I'd rather continue to use it for its existing attributes than see it sink slowly as it tries to compete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted December 30, 2016 Share #583 Posted December 30, 2016 Thank you Neil! I would have thought an M shaped/sized SL would be an attractive proposition, either as a second body or for someone coming into the Leica M for the first time and wanted to take advantage of the vast choice of lenses on something easy and fast to use... Surely the photos you take are the most important thing here... and if this helps people create images they enjoy, isn't that more important? It's not as if I was thinking that it would be a replacement... BTW Neil, I really enjoyed your Noctilux photos, along with the many others you have posted recently with your SL and M lenses... and it is refreshing to see someone so enthusiastically using their camera and producing consistently great results, rather than moaning about what the M can or cannot do, or what it should or shouldn't be. You should post an SL image with an M lens on this thread... I think a few others might think it not so dumb, either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted December 30, 2016 Share #584 Posted December 30, 2016 pgk, I am not for one moment suggesting the M changes to an EVF camera and is no longer an OVF... I was thinking of an additional model, I think it was Jono who commented on a previous post of mine where he mentioned an M and an E in the same form factor. How would a second option of a body, in M form, detract from the uniqueness of the M? Unless you think it would vastly outsell the existing OVF option and Leica decide to drop it and run with that, instead? Currently there are M 240, M240P, MD, MM2, M262, MA (and isn't the MP and M7 still available?). I think a single E version would be fine... and probably outsell many of the existing cameras in the range. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianman Posted December 30, 2016 Share #585 Posted December 30, 2016 No conversation here will alter the new m and it will not be very different to what exists already ps there will be no 2017 technology just old stuff No 2017 technology ? Doubtful indeed, as it was most likely designed in 2014-2016. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted December 30, 2016 Share #586 Posted December 30, 2016 Thank you Neil! You should post an SL image with an M lens on this thread... I think a few others might think it not so dumb, either. A few below Bill................By the way, the new SL with M lenses is a breath of fresh air for me..........especially shooting the Noctilux 0.95 wide open. I have now increased my M lens collection to include 21mm SEM, 35mm Lux and a 50mm Elmar. Below are a few taken with the SL and M lenses ......enjoy 21mm SEM Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Noctilux 0.95 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Noctilux 0.95 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266426-leica-m-10/?do=findComment&comment=3176060'>More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted December 30, 2016 Share #587 Posted December 30, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) And especially the Noctilux wide open,,,,,,,,,,,,, Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266426-leica-m-10/?do=findComment&comment=3176064'>More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted December 30, 2016 Share #588 Posted December 30, 2016 Not sure what happened on your last post Neil...! On my screen I have multiple images superimposed over one another That first post was a great example of using M lenses with an EVF and making it, as you said, a breath of fresh air... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 30, 2016 Share #589 Posted December 30, 2016 The SL and M lenses is the best thing since sliced bread[emoji7][emoji7][emoji7][emoji7][emoji7] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk <Bless> For those of us that like the S and SL cameras. For me, personally, not so much. I would be using an SL otherwise. Of course, being a serial buyer needs self-justification Disclosure: I have a strong aversion to sliced bread. I much prefer baking and cutting my bread myself. Hovis is the worst thing since sliced bread IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted December 30, 2016 Share #590 Posted December 30, 2016 Not sure what happened on your last post Neil...! On my screen I have multiple images superimposed over one another That first post was a great example of using M lenses with an EVF and making it, as you said, a breath of fresh air... Ment to be this Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/266426-leica-m-10/?do=findComment&comment=3176070'>More sharing options...
pico Posted December 30, 2016 Share #591 Posted December 30, 2016 Put this into the Bet Bin. The M10 could be an M9 with 24mpx. Simple, and less expensive than alternatives - a great platform upon which to build to greater mpx at a moderate increase in price. I only wish that Leica restores the USB connector with the ability to remotely trigger exposures as all the rest do with very inexpensive aftermarket timers/intervalometers do. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stef63 Posted December 30, 2016 Share #592 Posted December 30, 2016 I really struggle with this obsession about the "difficulty" of focusing the Noctilux. The DOF @ 0.95 is approx. double the DOF of a Summicron 90 @ 2.0. Jaap, I don't think the CoC of 0,15mm you used in the Dofmaster tool is correct. A DOF of 65 cm with the Noctilux wide open with a subject at 3m seems impossible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 30, 2016 Share #593 Posted December 30, 2016 Whatever COC you use, the relationship of the DOF between an 1.0 50 mm lens and a 2.0 90 mm lens remains the same if you use the same COC for both. Your choice of COC obviously depends on the final enlargement . If you want to try different COCs, DOFmaster offers a free choice, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted December 30, 2016 Share #594 Posted December 30, 2016 I get that... but maybe I am being stupid.... I was thinking about all those people who have been enjoying manual focus on an SL with M lenses and I was wondering, if that was available in an M package, would anyone be interested. I know I would for wide or long lenses. I have used an SL with M lenses (although admittedly only out and about at Leica Mayfair) and although I like the SL, it's just a little too big and actually, not as pretty and comfortable to use as an M. I would like something like that myself as a second body, particularly for <24mm or >90, and I'm sure others would too... and I think quite a few new customers would find it quite an interesting proposition too. I doubt those who have been using their SL with M lenses would agree it was a 'dumb lens on a smarter camera' and therefore not something worth considering (there are many on here who really sound very happy with the results they are getting... we all have seen some very good examples of M lenses in use in the SL thread... so why is this such an 'no, no' here??? Do you really object to an M body with a built in EVF working in exactly the same way as the M lenses work on an SL? I used the word "dumb" for M lenses in a figurative, not perjorative sense. They're actually deaf & dumb: apart from focus, they can't communicate with the camera or take instructions from it. If you mean an M-sized body with an M-mount and a built in EVF - well I wouldn't object to it because cameras don't affect me that way, but I would have no interest in it. If you mean an M-sized body with an L-mount and built in EVF, then I would be interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Livingston Posted December 31, 2016 Share #595 Posted December 31, 2016 I understand what 'dumb' means in this context Paul... no need to be quite so patronising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted December 31, 2016 Share #596 Posted December 31, 2016 The SL and M lenses is the best thing since sliced bread[emoji7][emoji7][emoji7][emoji7][emoji7] Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Only till your next new camera system adventure Neil :-) First Leica camera marketed 1924/25 First sliced bread marketed 1928 ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imants Posted December 31, 2016 Share #597 Posted December 31, 2016 Only till your next new camera system adventure Neil :-) First Leica camera marketed 1924/25 First sliced bread marketed 1928 ;-) pre 1928 my grandfather used a knife which I still use to this day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted December 31, 2016 Share #598 Posted December 31, 2016 Only till your next new camera system adventure Neil :-) First Leica camera marketed 1924/25 First sliced bread marketed 1928 ;-) No more new cameras in the Williams household............I'm cool with what I've got Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted December 31, 2016 Share #599 Posted December 31, 2016 pre 1928 my grandfather used a knife which I still use to this day Did he slice bread with it? ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted December 31, 2016 Share #600 Posted December 31, 2016 No more new cameras in the Williams household............I'm cool with what I've got That is a new year's resolution you're bound to break within weeks :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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