APO Summicron-M 75/2, 80/1.4 Summilux R or Contax Planar 85/1.4 for portrait lens

[wlaidlaw]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I am selling my Summarit 75/2.5, which has never been even close to one of my favourite lenses in the 9 years I have had it. When I did technical and museum archival photography, I used to use it, as it neither added nor subtracted any character to the image, so was good for that. It also had a very flat focus plane. I have totally given up that business, as I never made any real money doing it and continually chasing museums to settle their accounts, was very tedious. I am actually getting rid of a whole lot of Leica stuff I never use to a dealer, with whom I have a good relationship. Rather than fritter the money away, I thought I would put some of it aside for the 16-35 SL zoom but also get a longish fast portrait lens. 

 

My three choices are the three in the title, 75/2 APO Summicron, 80/1.4 R Summilux and 85/1.4 Planar. The first two are about the same price second hand with the Summilux slightly cheaper. The third choice is about one third the price of the other two. I already have R to M and Novoflex CX to M adapters, so no additional cost there. I would be using these both on my M240 and SL. I know the qualities and abilities of both the first and third lenses, having used the excellent 75 APO Summicron from time to time and had both a 1.4 and 1.2 85mm Planars. I would not consider the 1.2 Planar, as they are now very expensive collectors items and when I had both, I thought the 1.4 lens was a better all round lens than the 1.2. However, I know nothing about the 80 Summilux-R at all. It is considered to be an adequate, good or stellar lens? How soft is it wide open? 0.95 Noctilux soft or 1.0 Noctilux soft? The first would be fine with me, the second answer, marginal. 

 

One factor in favour of the Contax lens is that I have one of the beautifully made Contax macro auto bellows, and the 85 makes an excellent macro lens. 

 

Thoughts folks? 

 

Wilson

 

PS I should have said that the main factor in favour of the APO Summicron is its compact size plus no adaptor on the M240 and only one adaptor on the SL. 

[a.noctilux]

Hello Wilson,

 

For different periods, I use the three lenses but not for same subjects and not in the same system.

Zeiss Planar  1.4/85mm with EOS 5D with beautifull result for portrait but at 1.4 the Summilux-R 80mm is wonderfull.

 

Apo-Summicron-M 2/75 is mainly used with my different Ms and for me this lens is not a pleasant portrait lens.

 

So, if I have to choose only one for portrait, the 80mm Summilux-R is that one.

 

Regards,

 

Arnaud

[mmradman]

Hi Willson,

 

I am Summilux M 75 and R 80mm user, tried APO 75mm and ZF Planar 85mm f1.4.

 

Didn't like short focus throw of Summicron APO 75mm, i thought Nikkor 85mm f1.4 AFD was better than ZF 85mm, still sold the Nikkor.

 

As much as Summilux 75mm is good on M bodies due to RF coupling there is something about R 80mm version, plus half the price of M version. See couple of images and judge for yourself, all taken with Nikon D700 and Leitaxed lens.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[mmradman]

This is truly yours...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[mmradman]

Enough of ugly faces, your screen may crack...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[mmradman]

Also good for non portrait work...

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[wlaidlaw]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi Willson,

 

I am Summilux M 75 and R 80mm user, tried APO 75mm and ZF Planar 85mm f1.4.

 

Didn't like short focus throw of Summicron APO 75mm, i thought Nikkor 85mm f1.4 AFD was better than ZF 85mm, still sold the Nikkor.

 

As much as Summilux 75mm is good on M bodies due to RF coupling there is something about R 80mm version, plus half the price of M version. See couple of images and judge for yourself, all taken with Nikon D700 and Leitaxed lens.

 

Mladen,

 

Sadly the 80mm R Summiluxes are no longer half the price of a used coded 75mm Summicron. I assume people are buying them to use on SLs. The cheapest decent looking one I can now find is around £1350. I can get a decent Summicron for around £1550. 

 

Wilson

 

PS. Sorry just spotted that you were comparing R Summilux price with 75mm M Summilux price not 75 APO Summicron price and of course you are correct. I would not consider a 75mm Summilux as it is really just a longer f1.0 Noctilux and as such is a "one trick pony", albeit the wide open imaging is a pretty good trick. The aperture shift makes it difficult to use as an RF lens at mid apertures. The Summicron M is a good all round performer. 

 

W.

[Guest]

FD 1.2/85 has patiently waited for decades to be a star on SL / Sony 7.

No bling though.

[jaapv]

I am selling my Summarit 75/2.5, which has never been even close to one of my favourite lenses in the 9 years I have had it. When I did technical and museum archival photography, I used to use it, as it neither added nor subtracted any character to the image, so was good for that. It also had a very flat focus plane. I have totally given up that business, as I never made any real money doing it and continually chasing museums to settle their accounts, was very tedious. I am actually getting rid of a whole lot of Leica stuff I never use to a dealer, with whom I have a good relationship. Rather than fritter the money away, I thought I would put some of it aside for the 16-35 SL zoom but also get a longish fast portrait lens. 

 

My three choices are the three in the title, 75/2 APO Summicron, 80/1.4 R Summilux and 85/1.4 Planar. The first two are about the same price second hand with the Summilux slightly cheaper. The third choice is about one third the price of the other two. I already have R to M and Novoflex CX to M adapters, so no additional cost there. I would be using these both on my M240 and SL. I know the qualities and abilities of both the first and third lenses, having used the excellent 75 APO Summicron from time to time and had both a 1.4 and 1.2 85mm Planars. I would not consider the 1.2 Planar, as they are now very expensive collectors items and when I had both, I thought the 1.4 lens was a better all round lens than the 1.2. However, I know nothing about the 80 Summilux-R at all. It is considered to be an adequate, good or stellar lens? How soft is it wide open? 0.95 Noctilux soft or 1.0 Noctilux soft? The first would be fine with me, the second answer, marginal. 

 

One factor in favour of the Contax lens is that I have one of the beautifully made Contax macro auto bellows, and the 85 makes an excellent macro lens. 

 

Thoughts folks? 

 

Wilson

 

PS I should have said that the main factor in favour of the APO Summicron is its compact size plus no adaptor on the M240 and only one adaptor on the SL. 

Reading you post I would say that the Planar is the obvious choice.

[pgk]

The 75mm Summicron is an extremely 'precise' lens which captures every detail that a sensor will allow. IMO it has few flaws optically and is from what I have read, a derivative from the 50mm Summilux aspheric. If you want absolute precision in your images then this is the lens to go for. The 80mm Summilux is 'soft' wide open with its dreamy bokeh and tendency to flare slightly. Wide open it is not good optically to be honest but stopped down it exhibits the Mandler charm of being accurate but not harsh. A far better portait lens. I have not tried the Planar but would expect it to be a very good lens but again from my reading it probably lacks the flaws of the Summilux.

 

As ever it depends on your personal preferences - I'd be looking for an 80mm Summilux for portraits myself though.

[Guest )-(]

It's not on your list so maybe out of scope but i prefer the 90mm Summicron-R (last before the APO) to the 80R. It's half the price but has the same 'special sauce' for portraits at wider apertures as the 80 imho and is a nicer size to handle with a more convenient 55mm filter size.

 

Of your three listed options I'd choose the 80R but I don't know the Contax.

[graphlex]

In the Flickr group for the 75 Apo, I was surprised to see some portraits that did not have the harshness I remember from the 90 Apo. Perhaps that somewhat "gentler" look was the product of lighting or retouching. But if I thought for a minute that the resolution of 75 Apo could be tamed, e.g. at full aperture, I'd get one.

[otto.f]

I would not consider a 75mm Summilux as it is really just a longer f1.0 Noctilux and as such is a "one trick pony", albeit the wide open imaging is a pretty good trick. The aperture shift makes it difficult to use as an RF lens at mid apertures. The Summicron M is a good all round performer.

 

W.

I don't see what you mean here; a Noctilux stops at 1m, a 75 at 0.70m, so that is one big difference in portraiting a face in full format. The 75Summilux is a bit less soft than the Noctilux 1.0 wide open and more comparable to the 0.95. If you think about the Summilux80 R you plan to work with evf so if there would be any focus-shift which I seldom see with my 75lux, this is no argument. Price is though between the two. My experience is that the 80 is a bit softer wide open than the 75 but YMMV.

But if your point is that the 75 is just a bit longer than a 50, the Planar 85 is the best way to go I'd think, superb lens and definitely the best value for your money and a more real portrait lens than the APO summicron90

[Guest]

FD 1.2/85 has patiently waited for decades to be a star on SL / Sony 7.

No bling though.

This:

 

http://www.marcocavina.com/articoli_fotografici/Canon_EF_85mm_1,2_L/00_pag.htm

 

but mostly the portraits with any version of this lens!

 

I have a 1,4/80-R and after some attempts with EOS adaptors, I'll probably get a Leitax for my FM3a.

 

Long before ebay, one of my godchildren's parents were happy to have a Planar 1,4/85 Contax from me after the baptism and use it ever since on different cameras. My friend recently photographed their first grandchild with this same old lens, that was first (and ever since) mostly used by him for pictures of their daughters.

 

Don't pictures matter more than lenses?

[wlaidlaw]

I don't see what you mean here; a Noctilux stops at 1m, a 75 at 0.70m, so that is one big difference in portraiting a face in full format. The 75Summilux is a bit less soft than the Noctilux 1.0 wide open and more comparable to the 0.95. If you think about the Summilux80 R you plan to work with evf so if there would be any focus-shift which I seldom see with my 75lux, this is no argument. Price is though between the two. My experience is that the 80 is a bit softer wide open than the 75 but YMMV.

But if your point is that the 75 is just a bit longer than a 50, the Planar 85 is the best way to go I'd think, superb lens and definitely the best value for your money and a more real portrait lens than the APO summicron90

 

Otto, 

 

It was the design similarities between the Summilux 75 and Noctilux 75 that I was referring to. Like the Nocti 1.0, I understand that it suffers from noticeable coma at the edges wide open and others who use the lens regularly, comment on having problems with aperture shift when used as an RF lens. My guess is that like the 35 ASPH Summilux, there is a wide sample variation and some like my chrome 35 Lux will have minimal aperture shift, whereas others will shift right out of the DOF. The f1.0 Noctilux I had, had horrendous aperture shift, to the extent I moved it on, as it was really only usable at f1.0 to 1.4 and f11 to 16 on the M8 I was using at the time. If I buy an RF lens (and pay a premium for doing so), I want to be able to use it as an RF lens, not be obliged to use it with the EVF on the M240. 

 

I would go for the Planar but I feel it is just a bit on the long side, is quite bulky with the Novoflex LEM/CONT and forces me to use the less than wonderful EVF on the M240 (I have now been spoilt by the EVF on the SL). Ditto with the Summilux 80mm R, with the even bulkier R to M adapter. Even though it costs a fair bit more, I suspect in the end I may go for a 75mm Summicron. Whenever I have borrowed one, I have been delighted with the end results. 

 

Wilson

[pgk]

Even though it costs a fair bit more, I suspect in the end I may go for a 75mm Summicron. Whenever I have borrowed one, I have been delighted with the end results. 

 

I've owned two. The first was well off in terms of focus. My second was spot on. Its a lens which needs to be precisely adjusted as not only must the normal focus mechanism be correctly adjusted, the moving rear group needs to be in correct synchronisation with it too. Given its focal length and aperture and the preciseness with which it must operate its a lens well worth trying yourself before purchase, or buying with an 'approval' period so that you can thoroughly check it out, or alternatively that the dealer or seller is prepared to have adjusted by Leica should it not be perfect.

[wlaidlaw]

I've owned two. The first was well off in terms of focus. My second was spot on. Its a lens which needs to be precisely adjusted as not only must the normal focus mechanism be correctly adjusted, the moving rear group needs to be in correct synchronisation with it too. Given its focal length and aperture and the preciseness with which it must operate its a lens well worth trying yourself before purchase, or buying with an 'approval' period so that you can thoroughly check it out, or alternatively that the dealer or seller is prepared to have adjusted by Leica should it not be perfect.

 

Paul, 

 

Very good point - thanks. A good reason to buy from a dealer rather than Fleabay! With the M240, it is so easy to check nowadays (assuming your M240 is in adjustment). Supposedly the M240 rangefinder was made more robust than previous generations and certainly mine seems to stay in adjustment better than either my M8 or M9 tend to do. It has always surprised me that Leica and the dealers in each country, don't set up a Leica Approved Second Hand Scheme, like the better car makers do for their dealers. It would really simplify trying to track down a second hand item.

 

When my wife was looking for a Fiat 595 Abarth earlier this year, we found a dealer only about 30 miles away via Fiat's scheme, who we did not know existed. They had the perfect 400 mile demonstrator in the desired blue colour, for sale, which she bought. 

 

Wilson

[Ecar]

I once tested the Summicron and the Summarit side by side and ended up keeping the Summarit. For the specific rendering I was looking for (sharp and flat), I could simply not see a difference significant enough in real-world usage to justify the APO.

It's fair to say that I also own the 75/1.4 (my favourite in this focal length), as well as a bunch of vintage 85mm lenses, for added "character". The Canon 85/1.8 in particular, is an amazing performer, even by today's standards.

I used to own the 80-R and foolishly sold it many years ago. Its rendering is very much like that of the 75/1.4.

I have no experience with the Zeiss, but it sounds like it may be the best option in your case, as long as you are happy with a focal length that's closer to 90 than it is to 75.

[Guest]

Keeping the Summarit, also because of the info that it is not the most used focal length and because the Summicron does not render that much differently after all, and saving time by considering this segment reassessed, would this be an option?

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[otto.f]

I think the Summarits 75 and 90 draw very very different from their Summicron colleagues, much more so than the 35 and 50 do