New Leica SL Lenses & Roadmap!

[wlaidlaw]

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It would be nice to see something a bit braver from Leica for the SL.

 

Sure, when this latest crop is available, there will be three zooms covering 16-280, and four primes 35-50-75-90, but it's all very ... mid-range.  Don't get me wrong, Leica needs to cover this lot, but it would be great to have something just that little bit different - if the wide zoom had been 14-24, rather than 16-35, a nice compact telephoto like a 180/2.8, an 85 macro ...

 

I have no doubt that these new lenses will be fabulous, but Leica is famous for the quality of its lenses, and also, to be honest, making brave lenses like the Noctilux or the 280/4 R.  It would be great if they produced something to lust after.  Maybe the new Summicrons will do the job - while the 50 Summilux-SL seems to produce amazing images, they have been overshadowed somewhat by comments about the AF speed.

 

Zeiss seemed to capture people's imagination with the Otus line of lenses.  For a company that has an enviable reputation for the quality of its lenses and its innovation, Leica needs to do a bit more, I think, than just produce Summicrons in standard focal lengths ...

 

I think financial considerations maybe driven by Blackstone and the difficulties they seem to be having in placing their investment, have caused Leica to leave the brave pills in the bathroom cabinet. Have they made money out of their more left field adventures? If you look at the number of lenses sold in the past, when they have been brave, sadly I somewhat doubt it. Did they ever recover their R&D costs on the incredible modular R telephotos and similar? Possibly not. It was rumoured they lost money on every MATE lens they sold. I would guess that for the foreseeable future, sadly, we are stuck with middle of the road products. 

 

Wilson

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[IkarusJohn]

You're probably right - and as "middle of the road" goes, I imagine they will be pretty spectacular.  Part of my point is that the pricing of these beauties won't be middle of the road, so why not go for focal lengths that attract they many users who already have M primes.

[scroy]

 Are any Leica dealers taking pre-orders for the 75mm APO? How long before launch are they typically allowed to take orders?

[wlaidlaw]

 Are any Leica dealers taking pre-orders for the 75mm APO? How long before launch are they typically allowed to take orders?

 

Depends if you mean official or unofficial and the sort of relationship you have with your dealer. I am top of the unofficial waiting list for the 16-35 at my dealer. 

 

Wilson

[scott kirkpatrick]

As am I at mine.  That means that when they finally have a price they will call me and extract a deposit...

 

scott

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[wlaidlaw]

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.....not exactly overflowing with generosity. 

[dkCambridgeshire]

How can the SL system ever be considered a 'contender' in the professional market without e.g. longer Leica telephoto prime lenses … e.g. AF 400mm, 560mm or a 600mm … plus a dedicated 1.4x extender? This is the market sector where Nikon and Canon shine and where they have no real competition. The Novoflex Canon and Nikon to SL adapters are mere compromises / gestures and cannot persuade professionals or wildlife enthusiasts to switch systems. There is not even a hint of a decent telephoto prime lens on the SL road map. Perhaps Leica Camera Co.'s 'resources' (in the broadest sense) are stretched and limited thus insufficient to consider making better /faster progress with the SL system. I was under the impression that the new Leitz Park in Wetzlar would enable greater product diversity. 

 

dunk 

[Jeff S]

Six years ago, David Farkas (Leica Miami) commented on the forum about his expectation that the S system would soon have tele lenses (250-350 possibly to start), T/S lenses, etc. This was supposed to be the system for professionals. We see where that lead.... but I'm not clear if the halt/ delay was a result of market demand expectations, technical concerns (including the AF debacle), price competition ( beginning with Pentax), a combination or some other factors.

 

For whatever reason, delayed lens rollouts, now affecting the SL line, along with the lack of communications, sure can't help as customers (current and potential) make purchase assessments (except better to have delays than another repair debacle after the fact).

 

Jeff

Edited September 26, 2017 by Jeff S

[wlaidlaw]

Dunk, 

 

I would guess the problem is how many 400, 560/600mm lenses would they sell. Maybe 200/300 of the first and 100/150 of the second. I would not think that would pay for the R&D and tooling required. I for example, have never been interested in birds and have decided I have enough pictures of mangy lions, antelopes giraffes etc. I am even going to sell my 90-280, as I have used it three or four times in the year plus I have had it. If a high quality telephoto is needed Leica could always bring out new versions of the modular APO Telyts, in SL mount with minimal work to update the ROM linkage. Yes they would be MF but they are superb lenses. 

 

Wilson

[darylgo]

How can the SL system ever be considered a 'contender' in the professional market without e.g. longer Leica telephoto prime lenses … e.g. AF 400mm, 560mm or a 600mm … plus a dedicated 1.4x extender? This is the market sector where Nikon and Canon shine and where they have no real competition. The Novoflex Canon and Nikon to SL adapters are mere compromises / gestures and cannot persuade professionals or wildlife enthusiasts to switch systems. There is not even a hint of a decent telephoto prime lens on the SL road map. Perhaps Leica Camera Co.'s 'resources' (in the broadest sense) are stretched and limited thus insufficient to consider making better /faster progress with the SL system. I was under the impression that the new Leitz Park in Wetzlar would enable greater product diversity. 

 

dunk 

 

I remember looking through the old Moose Peterson books on the Nikon System.  Year by year he would describe which lens was introduced and it's reception by the photographic community.  A normal year is 2-4 lens releases.  Nikon had/has only one mount, Leica now has three and if added together the number of new lenses each year is not unlike what Nikon or Canon did.  Zeiss is perhaps the only manufacturer making lenses that would equal those of Leica both optically and mechanically with their Otus line, the introduction is perhaps 1-2 per year.  

[dkCambridgeshire]

Dunk, 

 

I would guess the problem is how many 400, 560/600mm lenses would they sell. Maybe 200/300 of the first and 100/150 of the second. I would not think that would pay for the R&D and tooling required. I for example, have never been interested in birds and have decided I have enough pictures of mangy lions, antelopes giraffes etc. I am even going to sell my 90-280, as I have used it three or four times in the year plus I have had it. If a high quality telephoto is needed Leica could always bring out new versions of the modular APO Telyts, in SL mount with minimal work to update the ROM linkage. Yes they would be MF but they are superb lenses. 

 

Wilson

 

 

Wilson, There must be thousands of sports and wildlife photographers worldwide … both professionals and 'enthusiasts', using Nikon and Canon and Olympus long focus lenses and highly unlikely that Leica Camera AG decided, "Let's design the best FF mirrorless system in the world but we needn't bother with AF telephoto prime lenses because there'll be no demand …"   There would likely be very little demand for SL modified, modular APO Telyt 'continuations'; with very few exceptions, no serious professional sports and wildlife photographers would buy into high end manual focus super telephoto lenses. Manual focus tele lenses do not have, or enable, sufficiently fast focus to capture long distance action. Long focus lenses at sports events are 'self-advertising' for both Nikon and Canon and could do the same for Leica Camera AG. Also, there are many camera and lens hire agencies which already hire SL bodies and existing SL lenses; a larger SL lens range to include long focus SL primes, already has a potential market in the hundreds of hire outlets worldwide. A Canon 600mm lens costs c. £10K; Leica could possibly match the price or get near to it … especially if manufacture was outsourced … but they'd also need a 1.4x extender.  

 

dunk  

Edited September 26, 2017 by dkCambridgeshire

[wlaidlaw]

Dunk, 

 

I think it is a chicken and egg situation. In order to get the traction in a market, you have to offer the product range to do so but you are trying to break into a market, where the competition is damn good at the job they do. Canon and Nikon are producing very good products, both cameras and lenses. Canon have had the lead in the market for high quality, fast, telephoto lenses for 50 years and they did not get there by being poor at their job. I recall years ago, when there was a third party German lens testing website (something like opdo), the two top lenses on averaged MTF scores, were always a Canon telephoto and a Zeiss 45 or 50 Planar. Therefore in order to get a conversion customer, Leica would have to offer something way over and above what the opposition do, in order to persuade them to go through the financial pain of dumping one system to move to a different and to all practical purposes (ignoring Novoflex adapters) incompatible system. I just don't think that it is technically or financially feasible for Leica to do that, much as I would hope otherwise. 

 

Wilson

[dkCambridgeshire]

Wilson, None of us have a crystal ball but given the recent 'rumour' about Dr Kaufmann's Zenit visit, anything might be possible as regards outsourcing additional lenses. Leica have already decided that the future of 135 format FF digital photography is 'mirrorless' and in in this respect they are many months ahead of both Nikon and Canon - both of whom will likely struggle to offer a FF mirrorless system - a system already developed and exploited by e.g. Sony and which is capturing both Nikon and Canon customers. Nikon and Canon have dominated the professional DSLR market for years but with the mirrorless revolution, loyalties are changing. Sony has not yet introduced super-long tele lenses but it's likely just a matter of time before they do so. Leica's AF lens design 'know how' surely goes beyond existing offerings even if their current manufacturing resources might not permit introduction of longer focal lengths. Professional camera / lens manufacture currently seems to be in a state of flux with all manufacturers experiencing uncertainties and hesitating to take the plunge to capture potential FF mirrorless sales. Expanding a mirrorless system is a risk but with new investment from a future Leica partner anything might be possible. 

 

Best wishes

 

dunk 

Edited September 26, 2017 by dkCambridgeshire

[Guest VVJ]

For whatever reason, delayed lens rollouts, now affecting the SL line, along with the lack of communications, sure can't help as customers (current and potential) make purchase assessments (except better to have delays than another repair debacle after the fact).

 

Unfortunately you hit the nail on the head... if you put out a roadmap you better stick to it, and if not you better communicate with your customer base, none of which is happening...

 

It is not going to stop me from using and very much liking the SL but it is disappointing and I can easily see how it could scare potential new customers away...

[sillbeers15]

How can the SL system ever be considered a 'contender' in the professional market without e.g. longer Leica telephoto prime lenses … e.g. AF 400mm, 560mm or a 600mm … plus a dedicated 1.4x extender? This is the market sector where Nikon and Canon shine and where they have no real competition. The Novoflex Canon and Nikon to SL adapters are mere compromises / gestures and cannot persuade professionals or wildlife enthusiasts to switch systems. There is not even a hint of a decent telephoto prime lens on the SL road map. Perhaps Leica Camera Co.'s 'resources' (in the broadest sense) are stretched and limited thus insufficient to consider making better /faster progress with the SL system. I was under the impression that the new Leitz Park in Wetzlar would enable greater product diversity.

 

dunk

If I were Leica, I would not even think about producing anything more than 300mm as a business.

Firstly, how many folks will buy these lenses after most have already owned a Nikon or Canon lens in the range. With the amount of glass and precision needed in manufacturing, I doubt the profit can be good unless Leica charges $25,000 for one lens?

Not forgetting there are already so much noise about the weight & bulk of current SL lenses,...will you be buying a pick up truck to move it around?

 

Be real folks! It is not going to happen.

[sillbeers15]

Six years ago, David Farkas (Leica Miami) commented on the forum about his expectation that the S system would soon have tele lenses (250-350 possibly to start), T/S lenses, etc. This was supposed to be the system for professionals. We see where that lead.... but I'm not clear if the halt/ delay was a result of market demand expectations, technical concerns (including the AF debacle), price competition ( beginning with Pentax), a combination or some other factors.

 

For whatever reason, delayed lens rollouts, now affecting the SL line, along with the lack of communications, sure can't help as customers (current and potential) make purchase assessments (except better to have delays than another repair debacle after the fact).

 

Jeff

A 500mm S lens? I'll need to hire a bangala (South Asian foreign worker) to carry the lens around for me on a photo shoot!

[LD_50]

The SL will never really compete with Nikon or Canon for the professional (shooting for income) market. ROI just isn’t going to be there for enough people to call it a competition.

 

Leica’s best bet for longer reach would be a set of high quality teleconverters for the zooms and possibly an official Nikon or Canon to L adapter.

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[steppenw0lf]

Agreed. Given that it is perfectly easy to use Summicron 75-M and 90-M lenses on the SL, it seems a very strange priority. Even the 50 seemed an odd choice to me, when both the 50APO-M and 50 Noctilux-M work so beautifully on the SL. Focusing the Noctilux on the SL is every bit as easy, if not easier, than on an M. The priority should have been lenses not available elsewhere or only on now quite old R lenses. 

 

Wilson

 

The SL 75 and SL 90 offer a new experience - small (right size) camera and lens. For some users this is a valuable add-on.

16-35 is well served with the WATE.

For me the order is ok, if only delivery would finally start ......

[steppenw0lf]

I think I come down on the "no wine before its time" side of this one.  There are no lack of things I can do with the SLs today, and no lack of lenses to do it with.

 

And Leica is certainly not asking me for business advice.

 

scott

 

I really miss a SL 28 (Summicron). I can use the Ms, but it is not what I want. I actually often use a Contax (also not perfect). And a Sigma 24-35 (bright but large).