carstenw Posted June 9, 2007 Share #1 Posted June 9, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I like to take pictures of people taking pictures. They are rarely interesting, but it is just a kind of hobby of mine, and maybe one day they will be interesting as a collection. Yesterday I was walking around in my neighbourhood with my girlfriend and saw a guy up front who was taking a photo. I pulled my camera out, at a distance of 2-3m, and took a picture of him just as he was lowering his camera. He heard me, and turned around, apparently glaring at me, according to my girlfriend, but I immediately turned to her and pointed at a house across the street, behind him, and said "*That* is where I want to live!" and just started crossing the street towards the house without looking back, my girlfriend trying to suppress a giggle the whole time. In the end, the guy had already lowered his camera, and you couldn't even see him holding it, and there was nothing else redeeming in the photo, so I deleted it, but the point is this: This would never have happened with the M6. The M8 is simply too loud. The clunk is too loud, and I want a manual winder, like the Epson R-D1. If left folded in, the motor can do its job, but if I pull it out slightly, like the M6, then the motor should not engage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 9, 2007 Posted June 9, 2007 Hi carstenw, Take a look here Another call for a quieter shutter. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
yoMammabot Posted June 9, 2007 Share #2 Posted June 9, 2007 I agree. My friends are impressed by the sound of the shutter. They say it sounds like a "real" camera.. I tell them that its because it IS a real camera. my point is that they should not really notice the sound of the shutter at all. A manual version would be wonderfull... Here is a question, What exactly is being advanced when that winder winds? No Film. Silly question I'm sure, but i wonder if the winder sound is for effect Is it the shutter resetting? Like I said. Its very late here and there is probably an obvious reason for the winder sound. That said, I would LOVE a manual winder to match my manual focus. Despite the quirks, I still adore my M8 enough to purchase a Luigi case for it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 9, 2007 Share #3 Posted June 9, 2007 Really, the famous quietness of old Ms shutter is a fact that you miss with M8: this morning was the last schoolday for my daughters and the school set up the usual play with families: I made 8-10 shots with M8... it's wonderful I've them already in this PC but... any click remembered me when, last years, I used my M4. But, fankly, I do not think that Leica will make some modifications for this : let's not forget that now we have 1/2000 an even 1/8000 ... they've said (seem to remember some interview of Leica people about this) that the M shutter was never "stretched" to 1/2000 also not to compromise on its famous silence. Now, different tachnology, different problems: we can count always on our old mech bodies when silence is A MUST. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted June 9, 2007 Share #4 Posted June 9, 2007 Let's be clear: The mechanical design of the old M series was ok. The new design was copied from the old in a hurry, look adaptations were made, but functional adaptations were not. - Quiet damped shutter ? - Zooming viewfidner ? - Built-in viewfinder magnification ? - Fast card change ? Oh, and btw Leica, you've had my 35/1.4 for adjustment for almost 3 months now - is this really pro after-sales service ? Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinb Posted June 9, 2007 Share #5 Posted June 9, 2007 I agree. The M is not the best street camera any longer. To me compact digicams are far superior in this aspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboy Posted June 9, 2007 Share #6 Posted June 9, 2007 This is how the DMR works...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted June 9, 2007 Share #7 Posted June 9, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) most orf the sound comes from cocking the shutter, not firing it. at best,all Leica could do is allow manual selected cocking. then it would be more like a film M; if you recall, they make nosie when cocking as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted June 9, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted June 9, 2007 I am sure that a bit of tuning of the shutter can make it quieter somehow. The more problematic bit is the manual winder (which just resets the shutter, there being no mirror). There simply isn't room for it inside the camera at the moment. I hope Leica can find a solution, and at the same time shave off a millimeter here and there, especially in the thickness of the camera. The M6 just feels better in the hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted June 9, 2007 Share #9 Posted June 9, 2007 Hi Carsten, I see, or rather, hear your point... The M8 is quite loud. Are you using a Luigi or Leica case? Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
carstenw Posted June 9, 2007 Author Share #10 Posted June 9, 2007 Nope... I have considered both, but to be honest, the fit around the back stops me from ordering either. Both cases look like they make it significantly more difficult to use the scroll wheel, for example. I am also concerned with adding to the thickness. Do you have on or the other? Has anyone here tried both? Do they make the camera quieter, and if so, how much? That last point might be the clincher for me, if true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Hatcher Posted June 9, 2007 Share #11 Posted June 9, 2007 For sure the M8 is not what I expected it to be. It is both better and worse at the same time. It is just enough of an M camera for me to have bought, only then to discover it's real strengths which make me want to keep it in spite of its flaws. Dwelling on the non-M-like characteristics: 1. The shutter. I agree it's the motorized recocking sound that is the problem, and there needs to be a selectable option to delay recocking, at least until the shutter button is released. I think this could be fixed in a firmware update. 2. The thickness of the camera. Doesn't seem like a lot in the specs, but in actual use there is more than enough to notice. Partly aesthetic, partly handling, and partly functional (won't fit on a Sabre gun stock). I might have preferred a removable lcd panel if it meant keeping the dimensions of a film M. 3. Cable release. For no reason I can think of the internal diameter of the cable release socket has been reduced, meaning some older Leica accessories can't be used. I'm having problems with a Visoflex I dual cable release that works fine on my M6. I'd like to have this modified (so far I resist the temptation to get out the electric drill). 4. PC cord socket missing. Why? It would have been so easy to include. I don't mean to rant about what I don't like about the camera, because even with the flaws I wouldn't let it go. It has rekindled my interest in (amateur) photography and as far as I'm concerned there is nothing in the digital world that offers as much in one package. But some of the shortcomings seem totally unnecessary. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted June 9, 2007 Share #12 Posted June 9, 2007 ... Do they make the camera quieter, and if so, how much? That last point might be the clincher for me, if true. I have the Leica protector, and it doesn't seem to make the camera more quite... I do like the idea of some protection though... Cheers, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 9, 2007 Share #13 Posted June 9, 2007 While I agree that the M8 shutter is noisier than the film Ms, and a quieter shutter would be of benefit, the idea that the earlier Ms had silent shutters really is a myth. In fact when I got my first M - an M2 - I was surprised at how noisy it was, I'd been expecting something that could hardly be heard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eoin Posted June 9, 2007 Share #14 Posted June 9, 2007 I'd much rather have the slightly more noisy shutter and keep the >1/1000 shutter speed and 1/250 flash sync. The Luigi case does dampen down the noise a little, but if you don't like the shutter sound, it really won't make much difference to your mindset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted June 9, 2007 Share #15 Posted June 9, 2007 You may have missed my earlier post on this. It's the combination of the shutter noise PLUS the motorised recocking that is the problem. I truly believe that a quiet mode which separated the two functions would solve almost all my problems with the shutter + I think most of other users' Leica Shutter Sound With any luck this MAY be in the next firmware upgrade. It ought to be possible because there was already an adjustment to the shutter release / re-cock in an earlier version. Let's hope so (and keep on lobbying Leica...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry Posted June 9, 2007 Share #16 Posted June 9, 2007 Although the M8's shutter could be quieter, it's still stealthier than any DSLRs because its small size doesn't draw attention. I've found that most people don't notice when I'm shooting, and when they do, the comments range from: "Are you still shooting film?" to, "I thought you'd be using a more 'professional' camera." Every camera is a compromise to one extent or another. One person's idea of the perfect feature set for the M8 isn't going to please the next person. I've learned to live with the M8's "imperfections" and not let it distract me from my work or my enjoyment of the camera. Larry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted June 9, 2007 Share #17 Posted June 9, 2007 It's all relative, though, right? The M8 is still way quieter than the DMR, or any dSLR I've ever had. The new Canon M3 sounds like a machine gun (though that's what you get for 10 fps). What's interesting is how much louder the M8 sounds when you're taking pictures than when you're the object of it. I've done tests with the Canon, the DMR, and the M8 from 5-10 feet away, and the quietest by far is the M8 (surprisingly, because you can turn the winder off, the DMR is next, though its actual shutter sound is loudest). I agree it's not as quiet as the later film Ms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankg Posted June 9, 2007 Share #18 Posted June 9, 2007 Nope... I have considered both, but to be honest, the fit around the back stops me from ordering either. Both cases look like they make it significantly more difficult to use the scroll wheel, for example. I am also concerned with adding to the thickness. Do you have on or the other? Has anyone here tried both? Do they make the camera quieter, and if so, how much? That last point might be the clincher for me, if true. I have the Luigi case with built in grip. I think it greatly improves the ergonomics and grip. Makes no difference in the sound but does not interfere with the wheel. Makes the camera look like something from the 50's to most people. I find people tend to give you more leeway and feel less threatened when you have an old Rollei, folder or some antique looking camera as opposed to a high tech large DSLR or a digicam. A quieter shutter would be nice but I would not trade the faster shutter speeds for it. The M8 gives a lot of flexibility in DOF/aperture choice with the high speeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe D. Posted June 9, 2007 Share #19 Posted June 9, 2007 Hi, I would be very happy if a new function could be added to the camera, and that the shutter be winded on by delayed-action when you want so. Let say, by pushing the shutter and held it down as long you need "silence" on S mode. This would probably be a lot more discreet i guess. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertwright Posted June 9, 2007 Share #20 Posted June 9, 2007 I have a pet theory about why the camera is louder-I think the continuous volume of the casing is larger than in film cameras, so it produces a larger sound-I guess Mark Norton could speak to this too, but just looking at the M6 for example, the shutter is "inside" the Inside of the casing, separate from the volumes that hold the film and take up spool. In the M8, the casing is one volume with no separation, and I think it resonates more overall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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