Chaemono Posted May 30, 2017 Share #1721 Posted May 30, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) OK, as stated before, the qualities of the X1D sensor are known as it has been out for a while. But I cannot help thinking that the two X1D lenses are kind of crap. Now this is based just on two quick shots that I posted in #1710, so it's too early to jump to conclusions. I’ll take a lot more pictures over the weekend. But IMO the XCD 45/3.5 lacks lens contrast. Compare that to the Summicron 35/2.0 on the M10. Critical focus is on the numbers of the brown box in both. Look at the amount of detail the Leica maintains from the transition of the in-focus to the out-of-focus areas. Both at ISO1600, 1/90, f/2.8 for the Leica, f/3.5 for the X1D. And, yes, the Summicron is stopped down and contrast might not be the highest at the maximum aperture of a lens but I would have expected better from Hasselblad. Here's a link to full resolution of the full size and crop versions: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ First the Leica Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now the X1D Edited May 30, 2017 by Chaemono Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now the X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3285866'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2017 Posted May 30, 2017 Hi Chaemono, Take a look here Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ramarren Posted May 31, 2017 Share #1722 Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Sorry Chaemono, but if those two photos are supposed to illustrate that the Hasselblad lens is "crap" and the Leica is anything else, they don't. There's so little difference between those two pictures that either could simply be another exposure with the same camera. I went to a second Hasselblad X1D event recently, this time with final hardware and the current shipping firmware. I liked the X1D even more than I did in June a year ago: it's a very nice camera with excellent lenses. I'm 'needing' one less and less, given the direction of my photography in recent months, but it remains one of the few new cameras that I call myself "interested in." It took only a minute of holding and playing with the GFX to convince me that it didn't impress me at all. And the SL ... stays. Every time I use it, I like it even more. Edited May 31, 2017 by ramarren 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest VVJ Posted May 31, 2017 Share #1723 Posted May 31, 2017 Native AF And the SL ... stays. Every time I use it, I like it even more. Same here although I would certainly appreciate a few native SL lenses the size of the XCD 45mm... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
almoore Posted May 31, 2017 Share #1724 Posted May 31, 2017 I cannot help thinking that the two X1D lenses are kind of crap I can't help but think that Hasselblad have created a really good balance of performance, size and realistic pricing. The quality of these lenses isn't going to be the limiting factor for any photographer using them. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoySmith Posted May 31, 2017 Share #1725 Posted May 31, 2017 OK, as stated before, the qualities of the X1D sensor are known as it has been out for a while. But I cannot help thinking that the two X1D lenses are kind of crap. Now this is based just on two quick shots that I posted in #1710, so it's too early to jump to conclusions. I’ll take a lot more pictures over the weekend. But IMO the XCD 45/3.5 lacks lens contrast. Compare that to the Summicron 35/2.0 on the M10. Critical focus is on the numbers of the brown box in both. Look at the amount of detail the Leica maintains from the transition of the in-focus to the out-of-focus areas. Both at ISO1600, 1/90, f/2.8 for the Leica, f/3.5 for the X1D. And, yes, the Summicron is stopped down and contrast might not be the highest at the maximum aperture of a lens but I would have expected better from Hasselblad. Here's a link to full resolution of the full size and crop versions: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ First the Leica Now the X1D I think I see the problem - your sensor cleaning supplies are not approved by the manufacturers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted May 31, 2017 Share #1726 Posted May 31, 2017 OK, as stated before, the qualities of the X1D sensor are known as it has been out for a while. But I cannot help thinking that the two X1D lenses are kind of crap. Now this is based just on two quick shots that I posted in #1710, so it's too early to jump to conclusions. I’ll take a lot more pictures over the weekend. But IMO the XCD 45/3.5 lacks lens contrast. Compare that to the Summicron 35/2.0 on the M10. Critical focus is on the numbers of the brown box in both. Look at the amount of detail the Leica maintains from the transition of the in-focus to the out-of-focus areas. Both at ISO1600, 1/90, f/2.8 for the Leica, f/3.5 for the X1D. And, yes, the Summicron is stopped down and contrast might not be the highest at the maximum aperture of a lens but I would have expected better from Hasselblad. Here's a link to full resolution of the full size and crop versions: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ First the Leica M1003398_lufversion.jpg Now the X1D B1010483_lufversion.jpg These side by side quick comparisons really say nothing and quite meaningless or pointless. Each lens has its fortes and surprises me not if the Summicron outperforms in specific instances, if not overall. When measuring the performance, you should be comparing medium format to medium format. If you want to pick apart the X1d lenses to justify the Leica lens performance, you will be rewarded. So far with my copy of the X1d 45mm lens, it's got a sweet spot around f16, if you want to see how sharp it can be. But it's not a 35mm image. You are comparing apples to oranges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted May 31, 2017 Share #1727 Posted May 31, 2017 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Native AF Same here although I would certainly appreciate a few native SL lenses the size of the XCD 45mm... The native 35, 75, and 90 that are coming up aren't too different in size to the XCD 45, from all the preview reports and photos I've seen of them. They're faster, though, which might well make them a bit heavier. It doesn't matter to me at all, however. I've gotten quite comfortable with the SL and the two zoom lenses, which are large, and with a set of R lenses that are about the same size and weight as those upcoming lenses once you fit the mount adapter to them. Of the new lenses, the 35 and 75 have piqued my interest, should I be at all inclined to spend money for autofocus. At this point in time, I can't say that I am. (BTW: the SL fitted with the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 is a lovely, 'light' camera package to carry about, about the same as a Leicaflex SL with the same lens. And it's one heck of a fine performing lens!) Edited May 31, 2017 by ramarren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski542002 Posted June 2, 2017 Share #1728 Posted June 2, 2017 I'm seriously looking at the X1D (not the Fuji) and whatever I decide the SL is a keeper. Completely different cameras for similar yet different applications. For how I'd use it, the X1D interface is fast enough; jury is still out on build quality from what I've read. The biggest challenge I face is trying to decide if the X1D is the most prolific way to "enter the medium format" category. As MF goes, it's not comparably expensive, but it's also not upgradeable unless Hasselblad releases another higher MP body that'll function with the same lenses. I have no desire to get into the larger MP bodies ('Blad or Phase), as great as their quality and DR will be; just too pricey for my client base (and my spouse) to absorb. Somewhat related but slightly OT, I've started standardizing to C1Pro for my SL processing/tethering. X1D raws won't play with C1. I even tried to convert the X1D raws to DNG using the Adobe DNG converter. C1 still doesn't see the converted DNG files from the X1D. Not too interested in learning another software application (Phocus). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1729 Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) Just a couple of quick ones from yesterday after I picked up the X1D. Apo Summicron-M 75/2 at f/2.6 on the M10 and XCD 90/3.2 at f/3.2 on the X1D. ISO 200 for all and similar shutter speed. The following four opened in LR with default sharpening applied and exposure adjusted slightly to try to match. Full resolution to the following four here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ First the M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now the X1D Edited June 3, 2017 by Chaemono Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Now the X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3287982'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1730 Posted June 3, 2017 Two more. Full resolution here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3287984'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1731 Posted June 3, 2017 Ok, two more. ISO 400, f/3.2 and 1/80 for the X1D, f/2.6 and 1/80 for the M10. LR default sharpening applied to both and exposure, WB and color adjusted for the M10 one to try to match the X1D look. Got some octagons there, I think. Full resolution here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3288000'>More sharing options...
Belle123 Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1732 Posted June 3, 2017 (edited) Ok, two more. ISO 400, f/3.2 and 1/80 for the X1D, f/2.6 and 1/80 for the M10. LR default sharpening applied to both and exposure, WB and color adjusted for the M10 one to try to match the X1D look. Got some octagons there, I think. Full resolution here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ M10 M1003420_lufversion.jpg X1D B1010516_lufversion.jpg Oh my goodness! Oh no! The bokeh balls on the M lens aren't perfectly round!!! What are people gonna think!!!! Ha! And shooting on the X1d lens at 3.2 is not going to be at its sharpest. Why don't you try a comparison at F16. Either way, these really just tell us the lenses are different. Most lenses are less sharp wide open, and to compare one at wide open...the X1d vs one closed down...the Summicron, of course the closed down lens would likely win on sharpness. Especially almost any Summicron. Edited June 3, 2017 by Belle123 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1733 Posted June 3, 2017 Yes, yes. I mean no harm. X1D sensor has great dynamic range and Hasselblad offers it in a compact form factor now which is suited for certain type of photography, I guess. See here: https://diglloyd.com/prem/s/MF/HasselbladX/HasselbladX1D-45f3_5-FlowersRussianRidge.html?dglyPT=true Will try to shoot those X1D lenses at f16 on a tripod tomorrow. Would still like to put up some comparisons, if I may. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1734 Posted June 3, 2017 Two more. Summicron 75 at f/2.6, XCD 90 at 3.2. Both at ISO 200 and 1/1000. Both processed in LR. The Summicron kicks some butt as far as contrast and perceived sharpness is concerned, be it stopped down a bit. Full resolution here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3288360'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1735 Posted June 3, 2017 And here the crops. M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3288362'>More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 3, 2017 Share #1736 Posted June 3, 2017 Thanks, Chaemono. Interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveBK Posted June 4, 2017 Share #1737 Posted June 4, 2017 I'd have expected more from the X1D. I wonder if the lenses let it down.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 4, 2017 Share #1738 Posted June 4, 2017 I think the M10 sensor is just very good and the Summicrons really shine with it. Wait till you see the ones from today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 4, 2017 Share #1739 Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Summicron 35 on the M10 and XCD 45/3.5 on the X1D. ISO 200, f/16, 1/6 for both. LR default sharpening, exposure and WB adjusted to try to match. Full resolution here: https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/ M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D Edited June 4, 2017 by Chaemono Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3289192'>More sharing options...
Chaemono Posted June 4, 2017 Share #1740 Posted June 4, 2017 (edited) Summicron 35 on the M10 and XCD 45/3.5 on the X1D. ISO 200, f/3.5 on the X1D, f/2.8 on the M10, 1/500 for both. LR default sharpening, exposure and WB adjusted to try to match. Full resolution here: https://www.smugmug....llery/n-9FSKSS/ M10 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D Edited June 4, 2017 by Chaemono Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! X1D ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/261949-leica-sl-or-hasselblad-x1d/?do=findComment&comment=3289193'>More sharing options...
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