Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Peter H]

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I do my daily load of pictures with my "not so different" and regarding raw files "handicapped" SL. I am not saying that they are phantastic, but I have a big choice of them and with completely mixed topics (fast, slow, portrait, sports, close-up, landscape, UWA, tele, you name it). So very much fun for me.

But where are the phantastic images of the X1D ? What I have seen up until now is maybe of extraordinary raw quality (I cannot see it, because it is not visible in the web), but the topics are quite limited, and most of the images are rather boring (ok, only 35 and 70 mm equivalent, (45 and 90) so maybe caused by this).

No surprises up until now, not even a few interesting portraits. Mostly "commercial"-type uninspiring images. No visits to exotic places, no ppl using the X1D for creative new stuff. Mostly pros unwinding their routine jobs (their daily routine).

 

Saying that this Hassy is the best camera in the world is easy, proving it (by making others envious of the great photos) is an entirely different story.

 

 

Surely you can tell as much about a camera's abilities from a boring photo as you can from one taken in an exotic location can't you?

 

How does exciting subject matter alter a camera's abilities?

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[ramarren]

...

Saying that this Hassy is the best camera in the world is easy, proving it (by making others envious of the great photos) is an entirely different story.

 

 

huh? I haven't heard too many people saying the X1D is the "best camera in the world". And even if someone did engage in such hyperbole, who really gives a darn about "proving it"? I don't 'prove' anything with my cameras, and certainly the goal of "making others envious of the great photos" is the furthest thing from my mind when I'm out shooting. 

 

I go out to see what I can see and post photos from that that I find satisfying, that hit my intent and technical desires. I'm in no way interested in convincing anyone that I have better equipment than theirs or want to make them envious. Actually, if anything, I hope that my photographs motivate some others, in some small way, to go out and shoot more in order to enjoy what they have in equipment more and in order to expand their photographic efforts ... because I love to see great photographs, not because I expect them to prove anything to me. 

Edited February 4, 2017 by ramarren

[steppenw0lf]

Agreed I'd love to see interesting photos, but I cannot find them from the X1D. Ok. maybe too early.

And no it is not necessary to prove anything. But my impression is, that the camera is simply used like many other midrange cameras for the daily routine jobs for well paying customers.

And it is no wonder, the few lenses are simply made for this.

Maybe we see more "art" in a few months.

[Peter H]

Agreed I'd love to see interesting photos, but I cannot find them from the X1D. Ok. maybe too early.

And no it is not necessary to prove anything. But my impression is, that the camera is simply used like many other midrange cameras for the daily routine jobs for well paying customers.

And it is no wonder, the few lenses are simply made for this.

Maybe we see more "art" in a few months.

 

 

 

Don't you think "art" comes from the photographer, not the camera?

 

And I can't see why a 45 and 90mm lens would prevent that. Do you believe art comes from special lenses?

[Guest]

Agreed I'd love to see interesting photos, but I cannot find them from the X1D. Ok. maybe too early.

And no it is not necessary to prove anything. But my impression is, that the camera is simply used like many other midrange cameras for the daily routine jobs for well paying customers.

And it is no wonder, the few lenses are simply made for this.

Maybe we see more "art" in a few months.

 

There are loads of images available, some of them I think are really good ones too. https://www.flickr.com/photos/mingthein/28285018595/in/album-72157670009490992/ I think these are superb images By Ming Thein, far superior to the uninspiring official Hasselblad gallery. (models male and female are terrible to my eyes - http://www.hasselblad.com/inspiration/gallery/x1d-gallery

[IkarusJohn]

It is a high hurdle indeed but they are quite different instruments and the comparisons aren't always straightforward.

 

You won't get a 1.4 lens for the Hasselblad.

 

But I think you have to ask a few questions before making sense of that simple fact, such as why would you want one, to start with. There may be good reasons why such fast lenses are the only solution to the problem you're trying to solve , in which case you can forget about the Hasselblad system straight away. But if it's because of the look of the photos that the lenses can produce it becomes more interesting and you'll find there are a number of differences that only you can evaluate for yourself.

 

But you know all this.

 

In the end it's a matter of the type of photography you intend to use them for. I concluded that there was no point trying to compare two different systems like this.I had to compare the different types of photography that most interest me and go for the system that is most suited to that. Which is essentially why I'm sticking with the M system for now, but will continue to explore my own photographic ideas and will move back to a different, larger format when to feels like the right thing for me personally, rather than anything much to do with which system offers better lenses or anything of that nature, because they are all likely to be superlative in their own domain.

 

But there are two types of photography that really engage me (spontaneous people-based, and slower object-based, to grossly over-simplify it) and in the end I'd like to go back to a digital version of where I once was, with an Leica M and a portable MF system. But now I need far fewer lenses than I used to believe I needed, and certainly fewer exotic ones, so I expect it to be financially reasonable now in a way that it hasn't been for quite a while.

True. My comment was less about wanting fast lenses for the X1D (they'd be very expensive and huge in a way that M lenses aren't) than thinking about the system as a whole. I haven't done the calculations, but f/1.4 on even the relatively small medium format sensor of the X1D would produce a challenging depth of field - it would be rather pointless.

 

A compact camera (compared to other systems - SL?) with good primes is useful. So, you're walking out the door and you grab a camera - you might see anything. The choice is M or X1D. What influences that decision?

Edited February 4, 2017 by IkarusJohn

[Peter H]

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True. My comment was less about wanting fast lenses for the X1D (they'd be very expensive and huge in a way that M lenses aren't) than thinking about the system as a whole. I haven't done the calculations, but f/1.4 on even the relatively small medium format sensor of the X1D would produce a challenging depth of field - it would be rather pointless.

 

A compact camera (compared to other systems - SL?) with good primes is useful. So, you're walking out the door and you grab a camera - you might see anything. The choice is M or X1D. What influences that decision?

 

 

 

Interesting question.

 

If I'm out for the whole day or traveling and not knowing what to expect, wanting to be able to take whatever sort of photo that captures my imagination, then the M, every time. Equally if I have a specific occasion where there's lots of people involved and I'm trying to get the feel of the whole thing, again, the M would be the camera.

 

If however I was trying to record features of the physical properties of things, for example buildings or the traces of human activity in the landscape (not the landscape itself: I am categorically not a landscape photographer) then I think the X1D has a lot to offer. 

 

It comes down to spontaneity against precision, although that's quite a simplification.

 

If I had to choose just one? I flirted with the idea of making it a 4433 camera but there are just too many times where my priority is to catch the scene rather than try to attain any sort of perfection, and the M, especially I hope the new M10, will be the camera most likely to offer the very least of all obstacles.

 

My ideal photos make you forget they are photos, and all you see is the subject. That is what I aspire to, within the filed of the subjects that motivate me to explore and express my ideas. The M viewfinder (any M)  is the best there ever has been at enabling me to see the world as if I wasn't using a camera at all, and in the end, that is what matters most to me, and why I couldn't use an X1D (or an SL or any other EVF-only camera) as my sole camera, however strong their other qualities.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Peter H

[IkarusJohn]

In exactly that position today - walking out the door, grabbed the SL & 24-90 zoom.

 

Your position, Peter, is almost identical to mine, save that I've gone with the SL for zoom and telephoto, Monochrom for the rest.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I tried the X1D and liked it a lot. I hated the ugliness of the SL until I tried it and Wow the SL for me is the best of the best. I don't have and don't intend to buy any SL zooms or the 50mm 1.4 monstrosity. Instead I'm just going to shoot it with my 4 only M lenses and maybe my otus for a model shoot. I bought the S to SL adapter but can't ever see me using it.......... maybe the 120mm for macro [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]

 

 

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[349A]

Neil- The 120MM S lens on the SL is fantastic, give that a whirl. 

[jrp]

The X1D feels good in the hand, if a bit clunky in operation, but I would not consider buying one until the system is more proven / matures. And even then. The theoretical benefits over full frame will only become apparent if you use a tripod or shoot in bright light, reducing the casual use case for the camera.

[Peter H]

The X1D feels good in the hand, if a bit clunky in operation, but I would not consider buying one until the system is more proven / matures. And even then. The theoretical benefits over full frame will only become apparent if you use a tripod or shoot in bright light, reducing the casual use case for the camera.

 

 

 

I do agree about waiting for the camera and system to mature as I've said above, and it's what I shall do.

 

I don't, however, agree that it's necessary to use a tripod to appreciate the sensor. But I suppose that's academic since we're not buying one anyway!

 

But if anyone is seriously considering it, please try it, take some photos home and process and preferably print them and you will see the differences compared with full-frame with or without a tripod. Whether you think the differences are worth paying for will then be up to you but at least you'll know what you need to know.

[steppenw0lf]

Anybody found in the web new remarkable images taken with the X1D ? Or any reports about the final camera ? I'm trying to find them, but without success.

A few months ago there was much more published. Please add here any links you find.

[wellfleet]

Anybody found in the web new remarkable images taken with the X1D ? Or any reports about the final camera ? I'm trying to find them, but without success.

A few months ago there was much more published. Please add here any links you find.

 

Reports:

 

DPI has numerous threads on the X1D which include comments and images from people who own the camera, and even one thread with info from Ove Bengston of Hasselblad as to future X1D updates. - http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/

 

Outdoor photographer Michael Clark - http://blog.michaelclarkphoto.com/?p=5689

 

Andy Williams (https://muenchworkshops.com/andy-williams) hopefully will be posting images @ DPI from his trip to Antarctica after he returns sometime in February.

 

Lloyd Chambers has an ongoing review at his subscription site - https://diglloyd.com

 

I would suggest that you set an X1D alert at Google search which will update you on a daily basis. https://www.google.com/alerts

Edited February 12, 2017 by wellfleet

[steppenw0lf]

I just wonder why photographers are so reluctant to show their results.

I have read getdpi during the last 2 months. I saw the image thread (Fun with X1D) and found that it took a while before it really started (only 2 weeks ago). And since then it is about one or two dozen images at he max. I saw images like the mill and others several times as they were repeated with each answer. So in the end very few different images. 

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/60733-fun-x1d.html

 

Because I found so few images, I asked here. Either it is all on pay sites (no thanks, not for me), or only very few cameras are around.

What I miss most is a "reality check", comparing the content of older reviews with a new test with the final product. I think this should be interesting for many ....  the main features (AF point selection, etc.) were not existing when the cameras was tested, just as the most interesting lens (30mm).

And I am also thinking that Hassi is not really "open": They announced 5 new lenses, but did not tell which ones. Even Leica known for their very restrictive news policy told us more about the coming lenses. Sorry, but this is "weird". (I simply find it stupid, sorry. Compare to Fuji.)

 

Maybe one remark about google or facebook: If you want to make sure that your interests are known in the "right places" and exploited in the most ingenious way, yes then I recommend you do it the way you suggested. (Have you really never learned anything about avoiding leaving your infos/footprints all over the web ? You probably never found it important ...      )

Edited February 12, 2017 by steppenw0lf

[ramarren]

Why so impatient? This isn't a race. Relax and enjoy the story as it unfolds. 

 

If you want to see a bunch of Hasselblad X1D photographs, try Flickr.com. This does a search for the Hasselblad X1D: 

  https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=hasselblad%20X1D

It pulls up about 500 photos at the moment, a number of them are just pictures of the equipment but that's to be expected at this point in the game. Beyond that are a lot of very nice photos. 

 

 

 

I have no problem with Hasselblad announcing product when they're ready to make announcements. They haven't "announced" five new lenses; it has been said in conversation on GetDPI that they will deliver five more (new) lenses in 2017 for the X1D but that wasn't an official announcement. From the same source, they're still working on the official announcements. I haven't seen it anywhere else so far. 

[EoinC]

Perhaps those few who have the camera are too busy taking photo's to worry about posting them. I suspect that few of us who buy equipment in the $10k+ range do so on the basis of an image that we saw on the interwebby.

[Paul J]

Don't you think "art" comes from the photographer, not the camera?

 

And I can't see why a 45 and 90mm lens would prevent that. Do you believe art comes from special lenses?

 

 

But cameras don't take pictures by themselves.The photographer chooses the right camera and lens to communicate their message. So yes, the camera and lens contributes to the art.

 

An HB pencil will not draw in the same way as a 4B, 6B, 8B. Sure you can use an HB to draw anything but sometimes it is much more emotive, communicative, appropriate or may better represent the point of view of the artist to use another. "Boring" lenses are like HB pencils but some people prefer drawing with HB pencils. The only thing that matters is it does make a difference to the final artwork and a photographer chooses what they prefer the look of to make the art they want.

 

Aesthetic and choice of media has always been important in art and it will be for ever more.

 

I agree with Steppenwolf that the X1D lenses seem, so far, quite uninteresting (that is just an IMO term). But I don't think that is coincidental or negative, just the way they have been designed, and the people who buy it will prefer it that way because it will suit their point of view.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Paul J

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[Peter H]

But cameras don't take pictures by themselves.The photographer chooses the right camera and lens to communicate their message. So yes, the camera and lens contributes to the art.

 

An HB pencil will not draw in the same way as a 4B, 6B, 8B. Sure you can use an HB to draw anything but sometimes it is much more emotive, communicative, appropriate or may better represent the point of view of the artist to use another. "Boring" lenses are like HB pencils but some people prefer drawing with HB pencils. The only thing that matters is it does make a difference to the final artwork and a photographer chooses what they prefer the look of to make the art they want.

 

Aesthetic and choice of media has always been important in art and it will be for ever more.

 

I agree with Steppenwolf that the X1D lenses seem, so far, quite uninteresting (that is just an IMO term). But I don't think that is coincidental or negative, just the way they have been designed, and the people who buy it will prefer it that way because it will suit their point of view.

 

 

 

I don't disagree with most of that, but you've slightly taken my comments out of their original context. If there's genuinely a lack of interesting photos around, I very much doubt that it's because of the nature of the camera and lenses.

 

No matter.

[wellfleet]

I just wonder why photographers are so reluctant to show their results.

I have read getdpi during the last 2 months. I saw the image thread (Fun with X1D) and found that it took a while before it really started (only 2 weeks ago). And since then it is about one or two dozen images at he max. I saw images like the mill and others several times as they were repeated with each answer. So in the end very few different images. 

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/60733-fun-x1d.html

 

Because I found so few images, I asked here. Either it is all on pay sites (no thanks, not for me), or only very few cameras are around.

What I miss most is a "reality check", comparing the content of older reviews with a new test with the final product. I think this should be interesting for many ....  the main features (AF point selection, etc.) were not existing when the cameras was tested, just as the most interesting lens (30mm).

And I am also thinking that Hassi is not really "open": They announced 5 new lenses, but did not tell which ones. Even Leica known for their very restrictive news policy told us more about the coming lenses. Sorry, but this is "weird". (I simply find it stupid, sorry. Compare to Fuji.)

 

Maybe one remark about google or facebook: If you want to make sure that your interests are known in the "right places" and exploited in the most ingenious way, yes then I recommend you do it the way you suggested. (Have you really never learned anything about avoiding leaving your infos/footprints all over the web ? You probably never found it important ...      )

 

 

Two things:

 

1. If Hassi is not really "open," then how is that Ove Bengston, Hasselblad's product manager, has directly answered two people at DPI who have asked about future feature upgrades? I doubt know of any other "open" camera company that has responded thus.  http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/60910-x1d-features-request-updates.html

 

2.Worrying about whether Google tracks you is a waste of time and energy. If you had friends who had worked at the NRO or the CIA, then maybe you'd understand.

 

PS: I've emailed Hasselblad 3 times about the X1D in the last two months and they've responded within 3 days of each email. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by wellfleet