Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Jeff S]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

There is speculation on X1D forum that price drop is linked to Sony announcing new 100MP sensor that will find its way into X1D, Pentax and Fuji either tail end 2018 or 2019

It’s old news that the XD will eventually get 100 MP, as the CEO has indicated.... just a matter of time. We don’t know if the next version will be an improved X1D 50c or the first 100 MP model (called X1D 100c or X2D?). Numbering aside, most dealers haven’t discounted below the already $1000 reduced price from Hasselblad.

 

Two things can be true.... something is coming, eventually....and some dealers are aggressively pricing, maybe to reduce stock for whatever reason.

 

Discussion abounds... Get DPI, Hasselblad digital forum, and elsewhere, like here as usual.

 

Jeff

Edited March 4, 2018 by Jeff S

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Jeff S]

This comment two weeks ago from a post on GetDPI was perhaps telling about timing (of something XD related)....

 

He posted....“I wrote an email to an Hasselblad insider, asking if it was worth to get a second body as a back up for my extensive traveling later the year or wait for the X1D successor....

this is what he wrote: :Since the X1D is now no longer new, and you already have one to work with now...I would suggest a little patience "

 

That would suggest something this year. But this is the internet.

 

Jeff

[Guest VVJ]

FWIW, Fuji is also offering discounts. 

 

I visited Unique Photo last week.  They had a Fuji X-H1 demo day going on with the GFX 50S also on display.  I believe the discount was $1,000 if you bought the body and a lens.

[Paul J]

That makes the X1D cheaper than the M10 now.

 

X2D rumours are very interesting!

[Guest VVJ]

That makes the X1D cheaper than the M10 now.

 

And 3 times as cheap as the Leica S...

[IkarusJohn]

B&H prices - X1D & 30 XCD for $10,000.00  Tempting ...

[Jeff S]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

$10,490.... Adorama was even cheaper, but they’re now back ordered and body is back to $7995. Word spreads.

 

Jeff

[satijntje]

Got a email today from Fotopartner in Germany that they sell the X1D in silver for 6899 Euro (down from 9401€) and the black version for 1000 Euro more.

I see a new BLAD arriving soon

John

[Chaemono]

It could be that they'll discontinue it. The concept of MF in the palm of one's hand means that the lenses have to conform to that form factor which makes the IQ inferior to real MF systems. Will the real MF please stand up!

[LD_50]

The IQ just needs to outpace FF in a similar form factor.

[Chaemono]

The lenses are slow to keep them small and I thought the Summicrons stopped down to match them kicked their butt below all the way back to Sweden where they are apparently designed (made in Japan, though): https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

[IkarusJohn]

I'm thinking (okay, hoping) there's an X²D 50c or 75c around the corner.  Nothing with too many pixels, so it remains hand holdable and heat isn't an issue, and in case you missed it in the name, a square format ...

[FlashGordonPhotography]

It could be that they'll discontinue it. The concept of MF in the palm of one's hand means that the lenses have to conform to that form factor which makes the IQ inferior to real MF systems. Will the real MF please stand up!

 

Bollocks!!

 

I've tested the XC lenses versus the HC versions and in most cases the XC optics are better.

 

The 50MP sensor in the X1D is in several medium format backs already. It's the most commonly used of the MF sensors. What makes the camera smaller is the lack of a mirror box, not the sensor size.

 

Gordon

Edited March 6, 2018 by FlashGordonPhotography

[FlashGordonPhotography]

The lenses are slow to keep them small and I thought the Summicrons stopped down to match them kicked their butt below all the way back to Sweden where they are apparently designed (made in Japan, though): https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-9FSKSS/

 

Again. Incorrect.

 

The XC lenses have almost identical speeds to their HC cousins. Further more the upcoming 80mm  will be the fastest lens Hasselblad have made (according to HB themselves).

 

You're probably slanted by the S lenses which are faster than all the other MF manufacturers. The X1D lenses are the norm. The S lenses are the exception.

 

Gordon

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I'm thinking (okay, hoping) there's an X²D 50c or 75c around the corner.  Nothing with too many pixels, so it remains hand holdable and heat isn't an issue, and in case you missed it in the name, a square format ...

 

There are crop modes in the later firmware updates. You can see and shoot square format (about 40MP) as well as a bunch of others. The upcoming 100MP sensor would probably be about 75MP cropped to a square...

 

Gordon

[IkarusJohn]

There are crop modes in the later firmware updates. You can see and shoot square format (about 40MP) as well as a bunch of others. The upcoming 100MP sensor would probably be about 75MP cropped to a square...

 

Gordon

 

The maths is beyond me in my addled state, but the 50c sensor and presumably the 100c sensor will be optimised (constrained?) for the horizontal dimension of the sensor (X axis).  If cropped square, the image does not use the sensor real estate available to it, by increasing the Y axis measurement.

 

So, it's not quite the same thing, though I take your point.

[Paul J]

I'm thinking (okay, hoping) there's an X²D 50c or 75c around the corner.  Nothing with too many pixels, so it remains hand holdable and heat isn't an issue, and in case you missed it in the name, a square format ...

 

 

I would really like a full frame 645 CMOS sensor which is 60MP. Unfortunately it doesn't exist! There is no such thing on the Sony roadmap at least, just 100 and 150. We are likely to see this 50MP sensor around for along time though and it is very good, even though on the X1D it's slow read out - I think they'll sort that out with the next body though.

 

The V-D prototype is based on a square 75MP sensor. it's just a cropped version of a 100MP sensor though. So you would get the same amount hand holding issues. Personally I would rather just take the uncropped and crop as I wanted. They have a square mode already.

 

Wth DJI's involvement in the hasselblad now I don't think it will be that long before we see in body stabilisation.

[Jeff S]

The maths is beyond me in my addled state, but the 50c sensor and presumably the 100c sensor will be optimised (constrained?) for the horizontal dimension of the sensor (X axis). If cropped square, the image does not use the sensor real estate available to it, by increasing the Y axis measurement.

 

So, it's not quite the same thing, though I take your point.

Yes, it’s a ‘cropped’ square, hence lower effective MP. The VF can black out the unused area for the experience of shooting square, or the mask can be lightened by degree for full frame viewing. (There are various other aspect ratio options.) Currently, I think, only Phocus software shows the crop, but it seems they’re working with LR to address.

 

Jeff

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[satijntje]

Currently, I think, only Phocus software shows the crop, but it seems they’re working with LR to address.

 

Jeff

 Thats correct, only Phocus displayes the chosen format, LR does not

John

[Alistairm]

I have been enjoying playing with my new X1D. 

 

A few observations, which should be taken as preliminary for now and are only based on what I find important so may be completly irrelevant to you. 

 

1. Physical ergonomics/build quality: X1D is lovely in hand. Very close to as good as the SL, although for me the SL ergonomics and impression of build quality edge out the X1D.  Narrow win to the SL. 

2. Electronic interface: X1D has a lovely, clean menu system. Combined with labelling of the physical buttons, this makes it an easier camera to pick up and use than the SL. But it is comparatively slow. I'd call this a tie, but for the X1D's ponderous pickup to shoot time. Win to the SL. 

3. EVF:  After getting used to the SL's viewfinder the X1D's EVF is absolutely horrible and a huge let down on a camera that is otherwise lovely to have in hand. It is slow, pixelated to such an extent that I expect manually focussing in low light will be compromised, blows highlights and lacks any real relation to the final image. Easily the greatest disappointment to me so far in my short ownership of the camera. First round knock out win to the SL. 

4. Native lens quality: I only have two native lenses, the XCD 45 and the XCD 90. I am discoutning the availability of native lenses - both systems are in their early days. They are both impressive in terms of quality, however, in my limited use so far I do not think they're as good as the SL glass, although admirably they are much more compact. I am favouring the SL at the moment for outright quality, but need to reserve judgment until I have had more time.

5. Non-native lens adaptability:  The X1D does this really well with cheap Kipon adapters. I have adapters for the Leica M Mount and for the Mamiya 645 mount. In early testing the X1D works well with both. I only have M Mount adapter for the SL and, of course, it works perfectly. Again, I need to reserve judgment, but the X1D seems to work really well with adapted lenses. The electronic shutter with the X1D gives no feedback as to when it is triggered, which can be a bit disconcerting and could be fixed in firmware. 

6. Low light performance: I made the mistake of reading Steve Huff's review and believing the X1D could shoot in a dark tomb at max ISO and do brilliantly. Again, early days, but I'm not wildly impressed with the sensor's high ISO performance. I'd rate it on par with the SL, but the SL has the advantage of an EVF that breaks down much later in low light, faster native lenses and native lenses with OIS. Win to the SL. 

7. IQ: Here is the rub for the SL... X1D. No question. That larger format 50MP sensor produces delicious images. Win to the X1D. 

8. Overall: It is early days yet in my Hasselblad journey but for me this is easy choice and if I had to keep just one it would be the SL without a doubt. The EVF performance alone would be enough to tip me over any IQ gain from the X1D's bigger sensor - the way the world looks through my camera's viewfinder is important to me and the SL has done this brilliantly and the X1D's EVF frankly sucks and detracts massively from what is otherwise a very enjoyable ergonomic experience. Also, the SL has faster and more versatile lenses, much faster operation, slightly better build quality and feels overall like a more complete package. 

 

If anyone is interested in more ramblings I'll collate some more thoughts as I spend time with the X1D but, despite me thinking that the SL is comfortably the better camera, I am amazed by how compact and well thought out the X1D is and with a better EVF and some other minor tweaks am very interested in being involved in the platform as it develops. I am confident I will be in the market for both an SL2 and an X2D as they emerge... so if someone can make autofocus adapters so that I can happily cross shop the lenses I'd be happy to help fund the kickstarter campaign! 

Edited March 9, 2018 by Alistairm