Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Jeff S]

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At the 5:25 mark of the video on this review (for those with LuLa access)...  https://luminous-landscape.com/hasselblad-x1d-hands-review/

 

More than two clicks, unless you count extended clicking as one.

 

Jeff

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[Peter H]

At the 5:25 mark of the video on this review (for those with LuLa access)... https://luminous-landscape.com/hasselblad-x1d-hands-review/

 

More than two clicks, unless you count extended clicking as one.

 

Jeff

I remembered that when I did my last brief test which is why I was careful to count the clicks. It was clearly two, like a shutter opening then closing, though that may not be what produced the clicks.

[Jeff S]

The Hasselblad product manager explains the multiple clicks (more than 2) in this video, after the 17 min. mark... https://luminous-landscape.com/hasselblad-x1d-hands-tour/

 

And the clanking is so bad (maybe the mic contributes) that Kevin almost jumps and rolls his eyes.

 

Jeff

[phovsho]

I've never really looked at this camera but decided to watch the LL review video above, to satisfy my curiosity.  

 

I was struck by how many design cues the X1D has that overlap with the SL approach.  

 

The apparent shutter lag he talks about at around 5.30 makes this camera a non starter for me. So much for the decisive moment. And start up times is another key consideration for me - and again this camera appears so slow.   Maybe these issues have been addressed in the production models.   

 

For the type of photography I do - street, candid, available light this camera isn't a starter me, and other than a bigger sensor I can't see any advantage over the SL for me.  And I'm not feeling the SL lacks MP - that's not saying I wouldn't jump at a SL with more MP, but rather other things are more important to me than just MPs.  

 

All my comments pertain to my way of thinking and shooting.   I could see how others would love the X1D.  But I'm left wondering how often in those situations is a small/light body that important and I would be wondering what the X1D's bigger siblings have to offer that the x1D doesn't.

 

 

 

 

   

[Surelythisnameisfree]

I dont think there is shutter lag. There is evf blackout (especially when shooting raw+jpeg) but the actual capture takes place when you press the shutter release.

[phovsho]

I have no idea if there is shutter lag - having never seen or used the camera in question.  I was just quoting the reviewer.  I did a quick google and it seems a good number of folks have identified this as a potential issue (with pre-production models?) To quote from the LL review above...

 

One of the things I am most critical of is the shutter sound and the lag time.  Shutter lag, for the most part with current cameras, is a thing of the past.  While it was something we dealt with in the early days of digital, I didn’t think I would see it in any modern camera today. The X1D has shutter lag. I’ll let someone with the proper equipment determine just how much.  But, it is noticeable.  I ran into issues a few times trying to catch a penguin jumping out of the water.  I missed the shot each time. By the time the shutter was pressed and all the shutter sounds took place, the shot was gone.  I am talking fractions of a second, but nonetheless, this can mean getting the shot or not getting the shot many times.  

[Belle123]

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Honestly, I wondered about the possible lag myself with camera in hand now. Have an old fashioned metronome and will see if takes picture on time! I.e. If I time it when the swinging thing is up, should photograph up. There is a definite time between hitting the shutter button and feeling like the shot took when you intended. For me, doesn't matter in what I intend to use this camera for. But for those interested, will test.

[Belle123]

Ok. Tested if there is a lag with a metronome. Most definitely. Even at the highest ISO and 2000th second. It's a healthy lag.

 

And for the discussion on noise and number of sounds, I hear four clicks.

Edited March 5, 2017 by billinghambaglady

[Jeff S]

Yes, Kevin Raber notes clicks and lag, which combined, make it difficult to determine when pic is actually taken.

 

Jeff

[phovsho]

Man that's a real issue for anyone taking photos of anything where the subject is moving or there is a decisive moment, so to speak. I would go so far as to argue that the absence of a noticeable shutter delay is the foundation element to my style of. photography. It certainly rules this camera out as a street camera for me, irrespective of size, weight and MP advantages.

[Belle123]

Man that's a real issue for anyone taking photos of anything where the subject is moving or there is a decisive moment, so to speak. I would go so far as to argue that the absence of a noticeable shutter delay is the foundation element to my style of. photography. It certainly rules this camera out as a street camera for me, irrespective of size, weight and MP advantages.

Well I will be real curious if the Fuji GFX has similar lag. Anyone heard anything about it?

[Jeff S]

I handled one at my local dealer this week. Can't speak to lag since we weren't allowed to use our own cards for more serious shooting. But I can say that the shutter release and sound was smooth and quiet...very well damped, no doubt in part due to its focal plane shutter. It seemed very responsive, although I didn't track moving subjects.

 

The dealer will have both a demo unit and rental unit, presumably relatively soon. I always test a new system...with my own pics, prints and workflow... before committing. Haven't yet decided if I'll put the X1D to the same test.

 

Jeff

[ramarren]

It wasn't just the sound, it was the multiple clanks (at least 3) that made it difficult to distinguish when the picture was being taken. If you don't experience that, then maybe changes have been made.....because it was disturbing enough that Kevin called it the worst sounding shutter he's ever heard, and he reviews systems (including those with lens shutters) as part of his job.

I hope this has been addressed.

Edit....I'd link to the LuLa video for a clear demonstration of what I mean, but it's a paid site ((only 11bucks a year).

Jeff

  

The X1D I used most recently clicked twice. Two distinct, sharp but fairly subdued clicks a fraction of a second apart. I wish I'd recorded it: there most definitely were not three or more clicks.

 

I only used it outside so it's hard to gauge how loud it was, but it felt "normal" to me, whatever that might mean. It's not as quiet as an M, not as loud as a 6x6 SLR I'd say.

 

PS, I wonder whether it's possible that different lenses produce different shutter sounds.

  

The Hasselblad product manager explains the multiple clicks (more than 2) in this video, after the 17 min. mark... https://luminous-landscape.com/hasselblad-x1d-hands-tour/

 

And the clanking is so bad (maybe the mic contributes) that Kevin almost jumps and rolls his eyes.

 

Jeff

Far as I'm concerned, it's much ado about nothing. Like the Sony A7 (weird stuttery clack and clunk), A7R (horrendous clatter with weird stuttery clack and clunk), my old Pentax *ist DS body, the 'steam engine' clatters and clunk of the Hasselblad 500CM, and a half a dozen other cameras in my recollection, you use it a while and get used to the sound and the timing of the shutter ... and then forget it was ever a problem.

 

I really don't give a single moment's thought to what some reviewer has to say. Every single one of them is just another person with their own personal agendas and opinions. If I'm interested in equipment, I get my hands on it one way or the other to see if it works for me. I'm much more likely to listen to users on this and other forums whom I know and who's ideas and opinions I've come to find align with mine on various points, if not on all, because that's what credibility is all about for me.

 

There are about nine people over on GetDPI who've gotten their X1D cameras now. The sound of the camera, and the timing of the shutter, has simply not been an issue that anyone's raised except in response to people like Kevin's "review". That says a lot to me.

[Belle123]

Man that's a real issue for anyone taking photos of anything where the subject is moving or there is a decisive moment, so to speak. I would go so far as to argue that the absence of a noticeable shutter delay is the foundation element to my style of. photography. It certainly rules this camera out as a street camera for me, irrespective of size, weight and MP advantages.

It might be improved with future firmware updates of the x1d. Don't know. But a good reason to hang onto my other cameras for when timing is critical. Real reason to go X1d is for medium format in a very compact system and well thought out ergonomics. Drawbacks, yes. But the images are worth putting up with some disadvantages. I will be interested to see the GFX when is available and how it really compares.

Edited March 5, 2017 by billinghambaglady

[Jeff S]

Far as I'm concerned, it's much ado about nothing. Like the Sony A7 (weird stuttery clack and clunk), A7R (horrendous clatter with weird stuttery clack and clunk), my old Pentax *ist DS body, the 'steam engine' clatters and clunk of the Hasselblad 500CM, and a half a dozen other cameras in my recollection, you use it a while and get used to the sound and the timing of the shutter ... and then forget it was ever a problem.

 

I really don't give a single moment's thought to what some reviewer has to say. Every single one of them is just another person with their own personal agendas and opinions. If I'm interested in equipment, I get my hands on it one way or the other to see if it works for me. I'm much more likely to listen to users on this and other forums whom I know and who's ideas and opinions I've come to find align with mine on various points, if not on all, because that's what credibility is all about for me.

 

There are about nine people over on GetDPI who've gotten their X1D cameras now. The sound of the camera, and the timing of the shutter, has simply not been an issue that anyone's raised except in response to people like Kevin's "review". That says a lot to me.

A lot of words, also without experience with a production model. I ultimately only care about my own testing...which I've already clarified.... but until I get my hands on one, I'll look preliminarily to others, asking a member here if her experience replicated a reviewer's video recording...not just his opinion, but a recording (two actually) that sounded horrible to me. (And until I cited the review, the member hadn't recognized shutter lag.)

 

While other factors influence my gear enjoyment, I do care about shutter smoothness, responsiveness and sound. I owned 2 M8.2s and loved them, but detested the obnoxious shutter recock motor whirr. Never got used to it and was delighted with the M240 change, although I bought it for other reasons.

 

I also don't mind if others don't care. To each his/her own.

 

Jeff

Edited March 5, 2017 by Jeff S

[ramarren]

Dear Jeff S: 

 

I love how every time you disagree with my opinion, and the evidence I present to support it, you do your best to undermine my credibility rather than present any salient facts that indicate otherwise. I'll no longer read your posts or respond to you. You're on ignore now. 

 

As I said, my personal handling of the camera in June 2016 didn't impress me one way or the other regards its alleged "horrible" shutter sound, or "difficulty in determining when the exposure had been made" ... even with the demo models available at that time, it sounded fine and I had no problem judging the precise time of exposure. And reading the discussions of those who have final, delivered cameras in their hands, there is virtually no discussion of any problems with regard to the sound or the shutter release timing except in discussions that date back to before their cameras were delivered in response to the Kevin Raber article. I consider that far more credible than what some net reviewer and a crappy recording of the camera in a noisy exhibit hall presents as opinion. 

 

I have an appointment with the Hasselblad area representative to see the shipping X1D on March 17. But I'll not offer you any further of my opinions. It's not worth my time reading or responding to you, and I could care less what you have to say on any subject at this point. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by ramarren

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Jesus crisis mate another one on the hit list [emoji3][emoji3][emoji3][emoji3]

For your info I was offered a X1D last week from my buddy in Scotland but declined as I'm waiting for the new S

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited March 5, 2017 by Neil D

[Vieri]

... as I'm waiting for the new S

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

Neil, any idea about when that is going to happen? Best,

 

Vieri

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Neil, any idea about when that is going to happen? Best,

 

Vieri

ive been told September

[Vieri]

ive been told September

 

Sounds great, let's wait and see then Best,

 

Vieri