Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Jeff S]

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Thanks for the summary.  Now could you please do the same with the Fuji GFX and report back?  

 

More seriously, my biggest concern when demo-ing the X1D was the crappy EVF.  I had hoped it would improve in the production version, but I guess not.  I think this was a major oversight for an otherwise elegant design.  The other issues may well get sorted out, but the EVF is stuck with nowhere to go but a new model.  And that's a shame, since the VF is paramount for me with any system, before even considering IQ.  Others of course may have different priorities.

 

Jeff

Edited February 21, 2017 by Jeff S

[CBM_Photo]

Thanks for the summary.  Now could you please do the same with the Fuji GFX and report back?  

 

More seriously, my biggest concern when demo-ing the X1D was the crappy EVF.  I had hoped it would improve in the production version, but I guess not.  I think this was a major oversight for an otherwise elegant design.  The other issues may well get sorted out, but the EVF is stuck with nowhere to go but a new model.  And that's a shame, since the VF is paramount for me with any system, before even considering IQ.  Others of course may have different priorities.

 

Jeff

 

 

Saw the Fuji at WPPI a couple of weeks ago...Looked OK, felt OK, haven't used it. Also the Pentax 645Z is something that I think gets overlooked in the conversation. Great price and from what I hear pretty good performance..I

[Jeff S]

Saw the Fuji at WPPI a couple of weeks ago...Looked OK, felt OK, haven't used it. Also the Pentax 645Z is something that I think gets overlooked in the conversation. Great price and from what I hear pretty good performance..I

 

I've used the Pentax 645 film equivalent....not a big fan of the size/ergonomics, but the digital version has basically the same Sony sensor as the other recent MF models.  The price, however, is attractive, but the big drawback for me is the uneven lens offerings and lack of a broad range of quality weather sealed options.

 

Jeff

[Joshua Lowe]

That's a shame about the X1D EVF and lockups.  I hope the Fuji's EVF is better.

[IkarusJohn]

The X1D I pre-ordered is sitting at the dealer with the two lenses waiting for another buyer.  I think I'll pass on this one ...

[steppenw0lf]

Recent images tagged X1D (20 pages all in all):    https://www.flickr.com/photos/tags/X1D/

Edited February 21, 2017 by steppenw0lf

[ramarren]

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Interesting test ... Thanks for posting your findings.

 

I have to say that your needs for tethered operation and studio lighting are not the same as what I do and need at all, so I'm not sure how well your evaluation would map to mine. The EVF didn't seem that bad to me even on the demo machine I played with for a half hour last June so ... likely completely different bases for comparison.

 

The folks on GetDPI who've gotten their X1Ds so far seem pretty happy with what comes out of it and haven't been complaining too much about its faults, other than mostly battery life. But I suspect their uses may differ quite a bit from yours as well.

 

It remains an open question to me. For the moment, I'm pretty happy with my M-D + SL kit and probably sticking here for a while yet. The Fuji has no interest for me whatsoever (for various reasons); same for the Pentax 645Z (and to think I held out with my 645 + lenses film kit for several years waiting for that one ... sigh).

 

Best just to keep going and watching. I don't have huge motivations to empty my wallet out for anything at the moment. Getting old and jaded, I guess.

[Belle123]

Interesting test ... Thanks for posting your findings.

I have to say that your needs for tethered operation and studio lighting are not the same as what I do and need at all, so I'm not sure how well your evaluation would map to mine. The EVF didn't seem that bad to me even on the demo machine I played with for a half hour last June so ... likely completely different bases for comparison.

The folks on GetDPI who've gotten their X1Ds so far seem pretty happy with what comes out of it and haven't been complaining too much about its faults, other than mostly battery life. But I suspect their uses may differ quite a bit from yours as well.

It remains an open question to me. For the moment, I'm pretty happy with my M-D + SL kit and probably sticking here for a while yet. The Fuji has no interest for me whatsoever (for various reasons); same for the Pentax 645Z (and to think I held out with my 645 + lenses film kit for several years waiting for that one ... sigh).

Best just to keep going and watching. I don't have huge motivations to empty my wallet out for anything at the moment. Getting old and jaded, I guess.

Ditto.

 

I wouldn't get caught up in the EVF performance either. But am encouraged the resulting files are good. Mine is still on order. Am waiting patiently and the GFX I may try out before the X1d arrives. For me, the size and ergonomics of the X1d is what interests me so I can feel as comfortable taking it anywhere as any of my 35mm cameras. Am not going to lug around other medium format digital boxes. That really is what the X1d is made for but it should be usable in studio work as well. Sounds like bugs still being worked on.

[Peter H]

Ditto.

 

I wouldn't get caught up in the EVF performance either. But am encouraged the resulting files are good. Mine is still on order. Am waiting patiently and the GFX I may try out before the X1d arrives. For me, the size and ergonomics of the X1d is what interests me so I can feel as comfortable taking it anywhere as any of my 35mm cameras. Am not going to lug around other medium format digital boxes. That really is what the X1d is made for but it should be usable in studio work as well. Sounds like bugs still being worked on.

 

 

From my trials of the X1D I concluded that the EVF was fine, a slight improvement on the one in the Fuji X Pro 2, if that's any help.

 

So maybe "horrible" or maybe OK depending on your needs and expectations. I could live with it very happily.

[BerndReini]

It is a strange time for camera manufacturers. We see these announcements of what seems to be groundbreaking cameras that seemingly a lot of people have been waiting for. The announcement buzz is followed by huge numbers of pre-orders, and once the initial buzz is over, people quickly become bored with the new offerings and clamor for the next big thing. The camera industry has done this to itself with increasingly shorter product cycles and in conjunction with cell phone photography, the industry is eating its own tail it seems.

 

Unless you shoot a a whole lot, it seems smarter to pick up a medium format film camera like the Fuji GF670, and pay for professional processing and scanning rather than get on the depreciation train.

[Jeff S]

z

 

Unless you shoot a a whole lot, it seems smarter to pick up a medium format film camera like the Fuji GF670, and pay for professional processing and scanning rather than get on the depreciation train.

I've limited myself to an M8.2 and now an M240, with 3-4 lenses, overs the past 8 years...a far cry from the plethora of film gear I used before that. I chose instead to spend money on the back end of the print workflow, where advances in printers, inks, papers, editing software etc have progressed dramatically. Far more bang for my buck...and far better results than outsourcing, just like my darkroom days.

 

But now in search of a complementary weather sealed system for using wider/longer lenses, I'm delighted that there are so many quality options, from many manufacturers. IQ is generally not a limiting factor anymore; instead it often boils down to form, ergonomics and interface and such....provided there is a decent lens selection.

 

Where the industry is going is another matter.

Jeff

Edited February 22, 2017 by Jeff S

[Belle123]

It is a strange time for camera manufacturers. We see these announcements of what seems to be groundbreaking cameras that seemingly a lot of people have been waiting for. The announcement buzz is followed by huge numbers of pre-orders, and once the initial buzz is over, people quickly become bored with the new offerings and clamor for the next big thing. The camera industry has done this to itself with increasingly shorter product cycles and in conjunction with cell phone photography, the industry is eating its own tail it seems.

 

Unless you shoot a a whole lot, it seems smarter to pick up a medium format film camera like the Fuji GF670, and pay for professional processing and scanning rather than get on the depreciation train.

I am willing to go on the "depreciation train" because I am depreciating! Ha! Not going to live forever so why not enjoy it if you can and while you can. That's my pep talk to myself for justifying buying something I know will get a lot out of, even though something better and more advanced might be around the corner.

[Joshua Lowe]

Try before you buy.  Rent for a week.  It may cost you ~$500 but it could potentially save you thousands.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I've used the Pentax 645 film equivalent....not a big fan of the size/ergonomics, but the digital version has basically the same Sony sensor as the other recent MF models.  The price, however, is attractive, but the big drawback for me is the uneven lens offerings and lack of a broad range of quality weather sealed options.

 

Jeff

 

 

There's supposed to be two new weather sealed zooms coming for the 645Z but they've been vapourware for years now. It's a shame because the image quality is absolutely fantastic, even from many of the older 645 lenses. The 28-45 is as good as anything out there. The old 45-85 is great a stop down and the 120 macro is stunning. Even the 200 is really good. And the old lenses still focus as fast as Leica S glass does. New DA lenses are quite quick indeed. Even though I use an S007 with my SL for work stuff I have kept my 645Z system for landscapes. It's big but a really really good camera. It's got live view, a tilt screen, a battery that goes all day and a really great mirror lock up implementation. I'm still interested in the HB and Fuji options but they're going to have to be spectacular for me to give up my 645Z. Because my 645Z, 28-45, 45-85, 120 and 200 weigh in at 5.5kg. That's manageable for me, even with a tripod and filters.

 

Gordon

[Jeff S]

Yup, I gave up on expectations for more quality weather sealed lenses for the Z.  And in the meantime, smaller options emerged.

 

I'd still consider the S for its wonderful VF and lenses.....if Leica formalizes solutions and commits to more S cameras/lenses (bringing down the cost of an S007! )

 

Jeff

[CBM_Photo]

From my trials of the X1D I concluded that the EVF was fine, a slight improvement on the one in the Fuji X Pro 2, if that's any help.

 

So maybe "horrible" or maybe OK depending on your needs and expectations. I could live with it very happily.

 

 

This its the next hurdle to cross, a 50MP sensor should have a EVF of maybe 20mp or even a 4k EVF, but these are still to come. I suspect the we won't see a SL/S V2 at 50 mp before the EVF issue has caught up

[helged]

I suspect the we won't see a SL/S V2 at 50 mp before the EVF issue has caught up

Which SL EVF issue...? (working perfectly well for me).

[Vieri]

Yup, I gave up on expectations for more quality weather sealed lenses for the Z.  And in the meantime, smaller options emerged.

 

I'd still consider the S for its wonderful VF and lenses.....if Leica formalizes solutions and commits to more S cameras/lenses (bringing down the cost of an S007! )

 

Jeff

 

That's exactly what I did, Jeff. After waiting for ages for more 645 lenses, I moved to full Leica (pretty much exactly one year ago), got the SL first and the S (007) after that and wouldn't go back. Btw, one year went by and still no new 645 lenses appeared.

 

To me, the only drawback of the S for my work is the long exposure limitation (one minute is definitely not enough), but I get by complementing the S with the SL. Other than that, the S system works brilliantly for landscape. Best,

 

Vieri

[Jeff S]

That's exactly what I did, Jeff. After waiting for ages for more 645 lenses, I moved to full Leica (pretty much exactly one year ago), got the SL first and the S (007) after that and wouldn't go back. Btw, one year went by and still no new 645 lenses appeared.

 

To me, the only drawback of the S for my work is the long exposure limitation (one minute is definitely not enough), but I get by complementing the S with the SL. Other than that, the S system works brilliantly for landscape. Best,

 

Vieri

 

The M remains my core system (for 28-50 or 90), so I plan to add a complementary weather sealed system for wider/longer (and maybe zooms), primarily for travel and landscape. So it will be either the SL or S, not both.....or perhaps the GFX.....all depending on personal tests (field and print).  Lots of tradeoffs for me to consider.  At least the Pentax and the X1D have been eliminated to narrow the field.

 

Jeff

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[Belle123]

Finally got my hands on an XD1 to test out. Have to say, very impressed! Didn't try to tether it so can't confirm if all that works fine or not. But, everything else worked great that I tested. The images when downloaded blew me away. Seriously considering dumping all my M gear. I will take a deep breath and pause before making that decision, however! It's beautifully designed more than any other camera I have used to date. Feels great in the hands. Incredibly compact yet not dense feeling like the M. I will confirm the EVF has slight magenta tint so far, but really will mostly use that for framing and wouldn't bother me. Perhaps that will be improved. The rear display is lovely. And without the lens hood with the 45 lens, it will fit in my small Billingham Hadley bag very comfortably! Doubt can do that with the GFX on the horizon. Not a speed demon though. It's very very slow by 35mm camera standards, and I haven't had my hands on other digital medium format cameras to compare to. So, that's a super plus for the SL and M for many occasions and reason I may still hang onto my M. But if you like medium format, it's wonderful. It takes patience to shoot. Will get one!