Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[wellfleet]

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Two things:

 

1. If Hassi is not really "open," then how is that Ove Bengston, Hasselblad's product manager, 

 

 

 

Apologies to Ove. His last name is Bengtsson, not Bengston

Edited February 13, 2017 by wellfleet

[Belle123]

Reports:

 

DPI has numerous threads on the X1D which include comments and images from people who own the camera, and even one thread with info from Ove Bengston of Hasselblad as to future X1D updates. - http://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-format-systems-and-digital-backs/

 

Outdoor photographer Michael Clark - http://blog.michaelclarkphoto.com/?p=5689

 

Andy Williams (https://muenchworkshops.com/andy-williams) hopefully will be posting images @ DPI from his trip to Antarctica after he returns sometime in February.

 

Lloyd Chambers has an ongoing review at his subscription site - https://diglloyd.com

 

I would suggest that you set an X1D alert at Google search which will update you on a daily basis. https://www.google.com/alerts

Maybe I am too particular, but of all the photos I have seen to date, only a few I would consider as good as what I can get from M glass. I know in the right hands the X1d surely is capable of better? Mine is still on order, but not seeing much to keep me there if delivery slips much further. I may switch to the GFX, but I like the design of the X1D better.

[steppenw0lf]

Why so impatient? This isn't a race. Relax and enjoy the story as it unfolds. 

If you want to see a bunch of Hasselblad X1D photographs, try Flickr.com. This does a search for the Hasselblad X1D: 

  https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=hasselblad%20X1D

It pulls up about 500 photos at the moment, a number of them are just pictures of the equipment but that's to be expected at this point in the game. Beyond that are a lot of very nice photos. 

 

Thanks for the link, that makes it easy to check from time to time.

But you have to agree (IMO) that the images found are not really exciting. Mostly first tries and first images of the equipment.

Do a similar search for Leica M10 or Leica SL for comparison. (Or for Canon 5DsR).

[ramarren]

Most of the posted X1D photos look very nice to me, at least when they're not obviously snapshots or pictures of the gear. I expect they're all "first tries" at the moment given new user of a new camera with new lenses. The lenses' rendering characteristics look lovely to me: smooth, clean, lacking weird doubling effects or jarring bokeh. Exactly what I expect from a well-corrected, high quality lens.

 

I don't see anything in Leica M10 images when I search for them that I can't get already with the lenses and cameras I have now. A little less noise at extreme ISO settings, sure. Not a big deal. That's not why I'd be interested to buy an M10. (I have no interest whatever in Canon 5DsR or Fuji GFX cameras or lenses, so it isn't of any value to hunt them out other than to admire other people's photographic efforts.)

 

Photography is not a competitive sport, it's an art form. Rating a camera by what you see in other people's photographs posted to the internet is a complete waste of time and a foolish way to evaluate equipment.

[wellfleet]

Rating a camera by what you see in other people's photographs posted to the internet is a complete waste of time and a foolish way to evaluate equipment.

 

 

+1000

[Alo Ako]

Rating a camera by what you see in other people's photographs posted to the internet is a complete waste of time and a foolish way to evaluate equipment.

 

I found that at the Web: post-1013-0-98821300-1483949050.jpg . I don`t like this kind of irregular stripes of the sun. So I saved time by the decision, not to evaluate the X1D any longer.

Edited February 13, 2017 by Alo Ako

[ramarren]

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I found that at the Web: post-1013-0-98821300-1483949050.jpg . I don`t like this kind of irregular stripes of the sun. So I saved time by the decision, not to evaluate the X1D any longer.

 

 

I don't really need to hear about everyone's personal problems. 

[Alo Ako]

So, if somebody don't agrees, its a personal problem? Funny guy ... :-))). Web evaluating is time saving...

Edited February 13, 2017 by Alo Ako

[ramarren]

I found that at the Web: post-1013-0-98821300-1483949050.jpg . I don`t like this kind of irregular stripes of the sun. So I saved time by the decision, not to evaluate the X1D any longer.

 

I don't really need to hear about everyone's personal problems. 

 

So, if somebody don't agrees, its a personal problem? Funny guy ... :-))). Web evaluating is time saving...

 

 

That has nothing to do with it at all. 

• What are you disagreeing with? Your post said nothing about disagreeing. 
• Your post said "I don't like this kind of irregular stripes of the sun." Perhaps you shouldn't be looking at a photo of the sun filtered by the irregular branches of a tree then ...? 
• And because of that you decide that the X1D doesn't produce the kind of photographs you like to see? 

That's a personal problem and has nothing to do with the X1D. It's the equivalent of saying, "I saw a crappy photo made by that camera. It must be a bad camera, so I don't have to look at it any more."

 

I don't need to hear these kinds of absurd deductions from everyone. Thanks for understanding. 

Edited February 13, 2017 by ramarren

[Joshua Lowe]

I saw a couple of studio shots taken with the X1D using strobes.  The camera tinted the whites of the subject's eyes to blue.  That's the sort of thing I hope will be tweaked in a firmware update.

[ramarren]

I saw a couple of studio shots taken with the X1D using strobes.  The camera tinted the whites of the subject's eyes to blue.  That's the sort of thing I hope will be tweaked in a firmware update.

 

 

I suspect that what you meant to say was: "The strobes tinted the whites of the subject's eye to blue. I expected the camera's firmware to take care of that." 

 

I don't know whether it's possible to do that automatically in firmware. When I'm using strobes and the subject shows a significant amount of white in their eyes, I often have to white balance on the eyes and then make adjustments to the skin tones to make them look natural (eye whites are generally warm, but reflect a lot of blue). Most strobe light spectral balance is pretty high on the blue end of the scale, and eye whites tend to reflect blue and ultraviolet disproportionately. 

[Joshua Lowe]

If the subject's eyes aren't being turned blue when using other cameras in the same studio then I don't see how it's an issue with the strobes.  Digital cameras interpret the light they're presented with.  It sounds to me like the X1D is misinterpreting data in a specific situation.  Kind of like the way the M246 added black dots to the center of circular objects (small stones, for example) in certain situations.  That's something Lloyd Chambers identified and it was easy enough to reproduce at home.

 

Anyway, this back and forth over a camera most of us haven't even used yet is tedious.  I'll wait to discuss it further until I've had some time with an X1D.

[ramarren]

If the subject's eyes aren't being turned blue when using other cameras in the same studio then I don't see how it's an issue with the strobes.  Digital cameras interpret the light they're presented with.  It sounds to me like the X1D is misinterpreting data in a specific situation.  Kind of like the way the M246 added black dots to the center of circular objects (small stones, for example) in certain situations.  That's something Lloyd Chambers identified and it was easy enough to reproduce at home.

 

Anyway, this back and forth over a camera most of us haven't even used yet is tedious.  I'll wait to discuss it further until I've had some time with an X1D.

 

 

Have you seen other photos made with the same lighting setup but a different camera that don't exhibit the same issue? 

 

But I agree: the cameras are now in the field and discussing their characteristics without having one in the hand, or at least with some exposures of your own to work with, is mostly just a lot of silliness. I don't know when I'll have the opportunity to work with one but I continue to look forward to doing so. 

[Belle123]

Most of the posted X1D photos look very nice to me, at least when they're not obviously snapshots or pictures of the gear. I expect they're all "first tries" at the moment given new user of a new camera with new lenses. The lenses' rendering characteristics look lovely to me: smooth, clean, lacking weird doubling effects or jarring bokeh. Exactly what I expect from a well-corrected, high quality lens.

I don't see anything in Leica M10 images when I search for them that I can't get already with the lenses and cameras I have now. A little less noise at extreme ISO settings, sure. Not a big deal. That's not why I'd be interested to buy an M10. (I have no interest whatever in Canon 5DsR or Fuji GFX cameras or lenses, so it isn't of any value to hunt them out other than to admire other people's photographic efforts.)

Photography is not a competitive sport, it's an art form. Rating a camera by what you see in other people's photographs posted to the internet is a complete waste of time and a foolish way to evaluate equipment.

Well, everyone has different tastes and parameters in what they consider to be a good photo. I just haven't seen anything that has impressed me much on the X1d yet and has me second thinking the decision to buy. I don't like buying based on specs alone. I want to see what it is capable of, before I buy. So, guess I should buy in the blind??? And this isn't like going from the m240 to the M10. Totally new system and new lenses. Totally new. So, time will tell.

[Jeff S]

Always best for me to actually use a different system before committing...take pics and make prints using my own workflow. So, rent or borrow/demo.

[ramarren]

I agree with the rent or borrow strategy. That's what I've always done. Half an hour with a camera in my hands making my own exposure, after I've read through the instruction manual, tells me far more about a camera's suitability than any number of pages of some reviewer's opinions. 

[CBM_Photo]

Tomorrow I have the Hasselblad Rep coming into my studio with the X1d and we are going to shoot a real fashion shoot with both the X1d and the SL side by side in exactly the same conditions, same models, same strobes (profoto) , etc This will give me an objective test of the camera. By the way I did the same with a PhaseOne XF 100mp and not surprising the images were amazing, but at the end of the day, I could get my head around the $49k price of the PhaseOne, but, man the workflow with C1, camera and profoto all integrated was sweet...I'll report after tomorrow on the X1d and now it performs in the studio.

[helged]

I'll report after tomorrow on the X1d and now it performs in the studio.

 

 

Much appreciated!

[Guest]

Tomorrow I have the Hasselblad Rep coming into my studio with the X1d and we are going to shoot a real fashion shoot with both the X1d and the SL side by side in exactly the same conditions, same models, same strobes (profoto) , etc This will give me an objective test of the camera. By the way I did the same with a PhaseOne XF 100mp and not surprising the images were amazing, but at the end of the day, I could get my head around the $49k price of the PhaseOne, but, man the workflow with C1, camera and profoto all integrated was sweet...I'll report after tomorrow on the X1d and now it performs in the studio.

 

That sounds like a right proper test that does! It will be very interesting to see your appraisal of both after the fact.

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[CBM_Photo]

On Thursday we arranged a shoot with one of our regular models, Lily and the local Hasselblad Regional Sales Manager, Matthew. The set up are the same for what turned out to be 3 cameras. My Leica SL, the X1d (90mm Lens)  and a new 50mp H6D which Matthew brought along as a comparison. Lighting was the same for all three, 4 Profoto D2's  with a beauty dish on one, 2 1x4 RFI soft boxes and a snooted hair light. Lights were checked for exposure with my trusty Sekonic Meter, so nothing changed when we changed cameras. Background the same, Lili's outfit the same.

Some observations:

 

1) The Leica was tethered to LR CC 2017, no issues. The H6d Tethered easily to Hasselblad's PHOCUS software. The X1D couldn't tether to anything. I tried LR, Phocus and C1, no joy. Hasselblad has yet to release a profile for this camera, so images went straight to the card.

2) The x1d went black several times, requiring the battery to be removed and the camera re-set. This was with the latest firmware. To be fair my Leica sometimes does this when tethered, but this happened a lot. Leica and h6d were flawless even when changing cameras and triggers etc.

3) X1d EVF is HORRIBLE, it has a strange tint and is only really useful for framing. Matthew confirmed that this was what they were telling the clients, EVF for framing, screen and live view for anything else...Serious flaw I think, but understandable as to get a EVF to work on MF of 50mp, it would need to be something special. SL wins here hands down.

4) X1d handling otherwise is OK, the menu's are the same as the H6D and were easy enough to figure out. The camera is very light compared to the SL, especially with one of the zooms attached. Comfortable to shoot handheld and on a tripod. My SL with the 90-280 is ALWAYS on a tripod.

5) H6D was the star of the show. If I go Hasselblad this is where I'm going. Great handling, rock solid reliability and amazing images.

6) Bottom line, the X1d is interesting but as a professional option it's not there yet. This is a camera for weekend warriors who wants to move to MF not a working professional.

7) Now, here's the kicker, the images out of the X1D were excellent, skins tones were the best of  the three ! I will post some images from the three in a dropbox for comparison. This amazed me, to be honest, but are they good enough to get over the other issues, bottom line, no...

8) We did the same with the Phase One and head to head the Hasselblad images were "warmer" with better skin tones straight out of the camera. The phase is a little "cold" but as with all of these things software can correct either. For portrait shooting I would say the Hasselblad's images were the best, they rendered light and dark skin nicely straight out of the camera. 

9) Final thought, none of these cameras embarrassed the SL. The SL images were right up there with the others. Obviously the 100mp 16 bit images will prevail at larger sizes, but we seldom go beyond 36x40 and at that size  the SL works great. 

10) Hasselblad file file was workable, about 60mb for a raw. My the way theX1d creates a .3FR file and the H6D creates a .fff file. no idea why they are different. LR reads both. but C1 refused to read the .3FR. Phase files are huge 130mb for a raw and 700mb for full time TIFF. Phase will need hardware upgrades for sure.

 

So what am I going to do? I'm thinking that I might sell one SL, keep one and buy the H6D for studio portraits. The X1D is a non starter, but I loved the images, which is sad, but it needs more work and it needs to be reliable. Maybe DJI money will fix this and then it would be a worthy contender. Phase is too much, too big, too many upgrades needed to get it to work, but the workflow is sweet with the profoto integration and C1

 

Dropbox link later today....