Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[wellfleet]

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The one I had a go with in London last week, definitely was not that noisy.

 

 

Maybe more like this?

 

[Jeff S]

This video will only be accessible for LuLa subscribers ($12 per year), but the sound is closer to the video I linked earlier.  In fact, one could tell Kevin Raber was being charitable when he seemed startled and said to the Hasselblad Product Manager (just before the 17 minute mark)  "certainly a different kind of sound"....

 

https://luminous-landscape.com/hasselblad-x1d-hands-tour/

 

Jeff

[wellfleet]

FWIW, from Mirrorless Rumors...

 

"The early Hasselblad X1D preorders are now shipping out (slowly) at BHphoto. In Europe they will ship out in 10 days at Calumet.de and at WexUK. I still haven’t found any official full review to share. I would love to see an image quality comparison between the best FF cameras and the X1D to see if there is really a major difference."

 

 

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-...ws-interviews/

[steppenw0lf]

But it's not weather sealed to the same degree without native SL lenses, which are huge.  That's one of my key concerns in not having a range of smaller and lighter SL primes, even if slower.

 

Jeff

 

Hello Jeff,

 

I have noted before that you are very much into "weather-resistance". So this maybe an option for you.

I found that all the Milvus lenses are weather-sealed. And they fit the SL perfectly with the weather-sealed Novoflex AF adapter (SL-EOS).

I tried the Milvus 2.8/21mm and was excited. The Milvus 2/100 is another price winning (well actually the predecessor macro-planar) macro lens that sits like a glove.

So if the R lenses are not good enough anymore (not weather-sealed and out of production), then the Milvus are a very useful replacement. Most have floating elements, offering high quality up to the closest distances. They could also be used with Nikon mount (and a less expensive adapter), often also with a little less weight and size, but only with mechanical aperture (which is ok for me).

 

Quite a big collection of "weatherproof" manual lenses for the SL.                 (Very high IQ, for me about equal to R lenses)

 

Stephan

 

Zeiss SLR lenses:         http://www.zeiss.ch/...r-lenses-de.pdf

Edited December 5, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[Peter H]

 

FWIW, from Mirrorless Rumors...

 

"The early Hasselblad X1D preorders are now shipping out (slowly) at BHphoto. In Europe they will ship out in 10 days at Calumet.de and at WexUK. I still haven’t found any official full review to share. I would love to see an image quality comparison between the best FF cameras and the X1D to see if there is really a major difference."

 

 

http://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/new-...ws-interviews/

 

 

 

 

This is interesting, this question of whether there's a "major difference".

 

There is a visible difference between photos from full frame cameras like the M240 and SL and the X1D-sized sensors, just as there's a difference between full-frame and APS-C sensors. Some people find the differences insignificant, others find them crucially important and worth spending multiple thousands of $£s on.

 

I've been struggling hard to decide whether the differences matter to me. I've concluded that they do, but only in certain types of photography. It is a very personal question, and not one that a reviewer will be able to answer for me.

[Jeff S]

Hello Jeff,

 

I have noted before that you are very much into "weather-resistance". So this maybe an option for you.

I found that all the Milvus lenses are weather-sealed. And they fit the SL perfectly with the weather-sealed Novoflex AF adapter (SL-EOS).

I tried the Milvus 2.8/21mm and was excited. The Milvus 2/100 is another price winning (well actually the predecessor macro-planar) macro lens that sits like a glove.

So if the R lenses are not good enough anymore (not weather-sealed and out of production), then the Milvus are a very useful replacement. Most have floating elements, offering high quality up to the closest distances. They could also be used with Nikon mount (and a less expensive adapter), often also with a little less weight and size, but only with mechanical aperture (which is ok for me).

 

Quite a big collection of "weatherproof" manual lenses for the SL.                 (Very high IQ, for me about equal to R lenses)

 

Stephan

 

Zeiss SLR lenses:         http://www.zeiss.ch/...r-lenses-de.pdf

 

Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts.  I'm not enthused, however, about any adapted solutions.  My goal is to buy into a complete system, and that includes native lenses, be it Leica, Hasselblad or Fuji in this case.  The flexibility would be nice I suppose if I already owned some third party lenses, but I have no desire to buy them because the native system is deficient regarding my needs/preferences.  

 

There are many reasons for my opinion, but not worth listing here.  Having said that, the Milvus line seems robust, although not very small, with typically fine Zeiss quality.

 

Jeff

Edited December 5, 2016 by Jeff S

[alib]

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Maybe more like this?

 

 

Yep... exactly like that :-).

[Jeff S]

Yep... exactly like that :-).

 

The LuLa video seems mic'd up perfectly, voices quite natural, so I imagine the shutter sound is true to form unless it's a pre-production model.  Even if so, the X1D Product Manager did not question Kevin Raber's surprise (and laughter) at the sound (twice).

 

Jeff

Edited December 5, 2016 by Jeff S

[steppenw0lf]

Jeff,

I see that you have different requirements. But being realistic, adapting lenses is the only way to have a complete "arsenal" of lenses.

Canon has the 4 T/S lenses, but even Canon users will add other even more specialised lenses (in my eyes some Canon WA and UWA primes are not so great and need some help from Zeiss or Leica glass). Other manufacturers will never be able to produce 4 T/S lenses (apart from Nikon maybe), so for owners of all other brands the option to embrace these lenses is a big plus (in my eyes). Unless they choose a camera that does not allow adaptation of "foreign" lenses.

So adapting is for me at the heart of the positive SL experience - though some (not you) like to frown upon it. A Leica SL with a 50 MP sensor, but not able of adaptation (of R and M glass) would be a crippled tool for me. (Would need to switch to Sony  ).

For me the Zeiss manual lenses are also more useful than adapted AF S lenses (apart from the Macro S 120). Sorry, no intention to hurt anybody, but they are simply a better (more useful) supplement to the SL, for me.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.        Stephan

Edited December 5, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[Jeff S]

Yep, different strokes....not my place or desire to question others' preferences or choices.  The good news (or maybe bad news for indecisive folks) is that there are loads of good camera/lens (and other gear) options these days, and more as time goes by.  For me, it's a means to an end....whatever works.

 

Jeff

[Guest]

Just had a second demo to make sure I could adjust viewfinder properly. In and out of the studio with Broncolour lights and outside too. Lovely camera which is now pre-ordered. 1/2000 with flash was a revelation as is the handling with manual setting of F Stop and speed, and then manual focussing. One touch of the ring and all is magnified 100% in the finder, makes it easy to focus well. Very pleased with the images. 

[Paul J]

Unless you need a DSLR with 15fps, I think Hasselblad just tied the whole industry up with an interwoven ecosystem, between this and the H6, (or H1, 2, 3, 4, 5 for that matter) that, IMO, makes everything else seem underwhelming. Modular ultra high res & ultra flexibility? check. Small, discrete and portable? check. Both have superior IQ in almost every way. The fact I can still shoot film on the Hasselblad H, something I can't and never will do on the S, is yet another deal making positive, they are even still making and selling the very capable Flextight scanners too. I've been holding off as long as I can for Leica to make a move but nothing happens, I don't see much reason to hold off much longer.

Edited December 6, 2016 by Paul J

[Peter H]

Just had a second demo to make sure I could adjust viewfinder properly. In and out of the studio with Broncolour lights and outside too. Lovely camera which is now pre-ordered. 1/2000 with flash was a revelation as is the handling with manual setting of F Stop and speed, and then manual focussing. One touch of the ring and all is magnified 100% in the finder, makes it easy to focus well. Very pleased with the images. 

 

 

It was the quality of the images and the ease of use and handling that won me over too.

 

 I assume there's still just the one central AF point? Not a deal-breaker by any means.

[steppenw0lf]

Hasselblad has two digital systems (2 camps): The 503 with the digital back and thousends of Zeiss lenses (Hasselblad V lenses). Really wonderful to use them.

And the X1D with the new XCD lenses. I see the 6H and 5H in this camp. These lenses are much newer, but can they compete with the Zeiss ?

Why not combine the two worlds - that's one of the advantages of a mirrorless. I know that with the adapter the camera would not be so small anymore - I would not mind.

 

Regarding AFpoints. They are now at 63. So good enough for face recognition.  (at firmware 1.13, which is not final, yet)

Edited December 6, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[Peter H]

Hasselblad has two digital systems (2 camps): The 503 with the digital back and thousends of Zeiss lenses. Really wonderful to use them.

And the X1D with the new XCD lenses. I see the 6H and 5H in this camp. These lenses are much newer, but can they compete with the Zeiss ?

Why not combine the two worlds - that's one of the advantages of a mirrorless. I know that with the adapter the camera would not be so small anymore - I would not mind.

 

 

An advantage and a limitation is the lack of a shutter in the X1D. It will not be as versatile a body as the SL.

[Guest]

It was the quality of the images and the ease of use and handling that won me over too.

 

 I assume there's still just the one central AF point? Not a deal-breaker by any means.

 

Indeed one central point still but that according to Luminous Landscape video interview should be fixed with the real shipments of products and have if I remember 61 points.

 

Manual mode for adjustment of F and Speed was wonderful as what the focus either auto or manual. I do appreciate the full magnification in Manual mode very much and I could use the viewfinder with or without my glasses after making the necessasry adjustments.

[Paul J]

Hasselblad has two digital systems (2 camps): The 503 with the digital back and thousends of Zeiss lenses. Really wonderful to use them.

And the X1D with the new XCD lenses. I see the 6H and 5H in this camp. These lenses are much newer, but can they compete with the Zeiss ?

Why not combine the two worlds - that's one of the advantages of a mirrorless. I know that with the adapter the camera would not be so small anymore - I would not mind.

 

 

Very true, and I forgot to add this all important factor to my post too. I have used the CFV-50c and it is seriously good and well implemented, except maybe for the for the way battery sits. But it opens up the remaining quality I look for and hold a very high regard for; rendering.

[steppenw0lf]

An advantage and a limitation is the lack of a shutter in the X1D. It will not be as versatile a body as the SL.

 

The V lenses have their own shutter mechanism. Only needed to find a way to use it. Maybe only to synchronize it with camera.

Edited December 6, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[Jeff S]

An advantage and a limitation is the lack of a shutter in the X1D. It will not be as versatile a body as the SL.

 

But the Fuji GFX will have one....with an articulating screen, removable EVF (with rotating option), an aggressive lens roadmap (if it can be fulfilled), including a wide/mid zoom out of the gate....a versatile alternative.  And with 51.4MP.

 

Jeff

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Peter H]

But the Fuji GFX will have one....with an articulating screen, removable EVF (with rotating option), an aggressive lens roadmap (if it can be fulfilled), including a wide/mid zoom out of the gate....a versatile alternative.  And with 51.4MP.

 

Jeff

 

 

 

Yes, agreed. Different cameras for slightly different uses, but both worthy of serious consideration.

 

The sensor is the same one I believe. I don'y know why the X1D is quoted as having 51.286 mp as opposed to 51.4 for the Fuji but I can't believe it makes a difference.