Leica SL or Hasselblad X1D

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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So, just to confuse everyone (especially me) a bit more.  If I'm interested in or need the benefits of MF over 35mm FFrame digital, and the X1D sensor is smaller than 645, could it be beneficial to wait until someone releases a 645 sensor body in the price range of the X1D?  I'd think it's only a matter of time.   I've heard it said many times, and I subscribe to the thought that if you wait for the latest/greatest tech, you'll never buy anything.  But a versatile X1D kit for a working pro would approach $20,000 +. Is that level of quality adequate given the cost?  But then, is the quality of an SL image shot using a boatload of M lenses adequate, given the cost?  

I thought you had left...............I personally think you should stick to your old M camera and calculator, this modern stuff is just going to confuse you :)  

[ski542002]

Nah, you keep pulling me back No more M's for me. All SL with M & R lenses.

[Sandokan]

Hi Chris, 

 

Your posts confuse me. I have an SL and as I stop down the lens from f1.4 to f8; the EVF does not change brightness (ie remains bright), and on the SL there is very little noise introduced in the viewfinder except at ridiculously low light levels when manual focusing anyway would be impossible. I can use it for better DoF judging than I ever could with an optical viewfinder and stop down, where the image by f8 was too dark to make judgements. 

 

What is your experience? Or how are you using it? 

[ski542002]

Hi:  

 

Hi Chris, 

 

Your posts confuse me. I have an SL and as I stop down the lens from f1.4 to f8; the EVF does not change brightness (ie remains bright), and on the SL there is very little noise introduced in the viewfinder except at ridiculously low light levels when manual focusing anyway would be impossible. I can use it for better DoF judging than I ever could with an optical viewfinder and stop down, where the image by f8 was too dark to make judgements. 

 

What is your experience? Or how are you using 

Hello:

 

To make certain I wasn't misleading anyone, I just did a quick test shot using the SL and my 75 2.4 M.  Shooting wide open, I get expected beautiful background bokeh and very shallow depth of field.  If I stop down to F16 and adjust my shutter speed to achieve the correct exposure, my SL screen does not go dark, and the exposure preview in the EVF is spot-on correct.  BUT, when I look in the SL's EVF, there is zero indication on how deep my depth of field is at F16.  When I look at the captured image, the increased depth of field is obvious and very noticeable, but there's no way to preview it on the SL, unless I'm missing a preview setting somewhere on the camera.  Shooting at 2.4 or 16, my exact point of focus in the viewfinder is just that; everything else in the EVF image falls off focus rapidly.  There is no depth of field effect until I look at the captured image on the LCD.

[EoinC]

I can't speak for the SL (as I don't have one), but cameras with EVF / Liveview (including my M Monochrom) stop-down the lens when you 1/2 press the shutter button. At this point, to the extent possible, what you see is what you get, given that both EVF and LV are reading from the sensor.

 

To get a clear representation of this for DOF, shooting tethered (or wireless-tethered, as with the A7's, or CamRanger) may be necessary. The DOF markings on lenses (IMHO) tend to be indicative, rather than fact, based on an "acceptable" degree of focus. As Neil says, if it's important enough for calculations to be necessary, chimp.

Edited October 27, 2016 by EoinC

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I can't speak for the SL (as I don't have one), but cameras with EVF / Liveview (including my M Monochrom) stop-down the lens when you 1/2 press the shutter button. At this point, to the extent possible, what you see is what you get, given that both EVF and LV are reading from the sensor.

 

To get a clear representation of this for DOF, shooting tethered (or wireless-tethered, as with the A7's) may be necessary. As Neil says, chimp.

Gimping is like having a aperture ring on drugs........ once you've tried it you will never go back again

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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Chimping

[EoinC]

Gimping is like having a aperture ring on drugs........ once you've tried it you will never go back again

I disagree, Neil (at least for me). I try to avoid it like the bubonic plague.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Hi:

 

Hello:

 

There is no depth of field effect until I look at the captured image on the LCD.

thats where the chimping comes in like we mentioned a few threads back

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Side by side waiting on the sun to raise its ugly head[emoji41][emoji41][emoji41]

 

 

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[LD_50]

Hi:  

 

 

Hello:

 

To make certain I wasn't misleading anyone, I just did a quick test shot using the SL and my 75 2.4 M.  Shooting wide open, I get expected beautiful background bokeh and very shallow depth of field.  If I stop down to F16 and adjust my shutter speed to achieve the correct exposure, my SL screen does not go dark, and the exposure preview in the EVF is spot-on correct.  BUT, when I look in the SL's EVF, there is zero indication on how deep my depth of field is at F16.  When I look at the captured image, the increased depth of field is obvious and very noticeable, but there's no way to preview it on the SL, unless I'm missing a preview setting somewhere on the camera.  Shooting at 2.4 or 16, my exact point of focus in the viewfinder is just that; everything else in the EVF image falls off focus rapidly.  There is no depth of field effect until I look at the captured image on the LCD.

The SL doesn't control aperture on the M lenses so what you see through the EVF or live view is the image to be captured. DOF in the EVF or live view will match the captured image. This post lost me.

[steppenw0lf]

Gimping is like having a aperture ring on drugs........ once you've tried it you will never go back again

 

Chimping is like polaroid on drugs - and for free. The closest thing to a free lunch.   

 

And of course does the EVF show the DOF, why wouldn't it ? (Sorry ski542002 , time to go visit an eye shop/opticians, if you can't recognize this.  )  That's why the SL is my favorite camera and that's why it is much better for macro photos than a classical DSLR.

If it was polaroid (it is still around see the latest Leica offering), then nobody would feel above it. But it would be slow and require some time to wait between the shots until the chemicals are finally developed - how cumbersome.

So the mirrorless cameras are "polaroid cameras" in perfection. Even with a scientific touch (the histogram).

That makes it less inhibiting, that the preview mode in the SL is not sticky. (hopefully fixed with the coming firmware.  )

Edited October 28, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[A miller]

Can you add a link ? I found the forum but no cacti. And I gave up, not enough fun to scan through 1150 pages.

 

Some SWC cacti (from the I Like Film Thread), at your service

Velvia 50

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

 

Velvia 50

 

 

Ektar

 

 

Velvia 50

 

 

Provia 100F

 

 

Ektar

 

 

Provia 100F

 

 

Velvia 50

 

 

Velvia 50

 

 

Velvia 50

 

 

Edited October 28, 2016 by A miller

[steppenw0lf]

Thanks a lot - that's almost Leica professional services   

You found more than I did.

The second is my favorite. Are they yours ? Could you add a 100% crop (square format) with the big blossom in the center ?

(You gave me a finger, I ask for the whole arm).              (btw 1280x1280 is the max allowed here).

Edited October 28, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[A miller]

Thanks a lot - that's almost Leica professional services   

You found more than I did.

The second is my favorite. Are they yours ? Could you add a 100% crop (square format) with the big blossom in the center ?

(You gave me a finger, I ask for the whole arm).              (btw 1280x1280 is the max allowed here).

 

My pleasure.  That's all there be on the entire thread, save for the gorgeous cactus blossom that Xenia posted.

And yes, they are mine.

All from ISRAEL 

[steppenw0lf]

So they must be neophytes - their origin being in america.

(Or am I mistaken ? Looks like opuntia - prickly pear, indian fig)

Sorry, off topic.

Edited October 28, 2016 by steppenw0lf

[A miller]

So they must be neophytes - their origin being in america.

(Or am I mistaken ? Looks like opuntia - prickly pear, indian fig)

Sorry, off topic.

 

I am basically a neophyte with regard to everything.

But this might be an appropriate forum in which to ask your questions... http://forums.cacti.net

[pop]

So they must be neophytes - their origin being in america.

(Or am I mistaken ? Looks like opuntia - prickly pear, indian fig)

Sorry, off topic.

I think I can see Opuntia,  Cereus (such as in #2) and Echinocactus Grusonii, all from America. The flower of the (presumed) cereus looks very similar to the famous flower of the Selenicereus Grandiflorus (a.k.a. Queen of the Night).

 

The spelling of all the names is coincidential.

[Sandokan]

Hi:

 

Hello:

 

To make certain I wasn't misleading anyone, I just did a quick test shot using the SL and my 75 2.4 M. Shooting wide open, I get expected beautiful background bokeh and very shallow depth of field. If I stop down to F16 and adjust my shutter speed to achieve the correct exposure, my SL screen does not go dark, and the exposure preview in the EVF is spot-on correct. BUT, when I look in the SL's EVF, there is zero indication on how deep my depth of field is at F16. When I look at the captured image, the increased depth of field is obvious and very noticeable, but there's no way to preview it on the SL, unless I'm missing a preview setting somewhere on the camera. Shooting at 2.4 or 16, my exact point of focus in the viewfinder is just that; everything else in the EVF image falls off focus rapidly. There is no depth of field effect until I look at the captured image on the LCD.

This is what is confusing: the M lenses are fully manual, so when you change the aperture ring to f16, the aperture blades close down and wysiwyg through the viewfinder. In the old days, with a Canon A1 for example, the screen would go dark in stop down mode and you had an indication of the depth of field depending on how well you could see the dark screen.

 

Now with a 35mm lens for example, I can see foreground objects come into acceptable blur (focus) as I stop down. It is less obvious with background objects except with a telephoto lens.

 

@EoinC - the M lenses are fully manual, and the half press of the M shutter brings up exposure preview and does not close the aperture ss that is closed manually with the aperture ring only. Look into the lens as you do this to confirm.

 

 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[steppenw0lf]

This is about midrange and also about the sensor size - it is 33x44 for the X1D. Is this midrange ?

Well another thought: Leica has announced the "Leica Sofort" in cooperation with Fuji-film. And guess what the format of this "polaroid" film is ? It is 62x46mm, so almost exactly what we need for the midrange lenses.

Just dreaming: If it was possible to produce a back for midrange cameras with this instant film .....   Or if the camera could somehow be converted into a back ? (I have seen a video how to turn a large format camera into a lens for a mirrorless camera (used as a sort of digital back).

Or maybe I am just not up to date and Fuji-film is already offering this ? Anybody knows anything about it ?

Edited October 28, 2016 by steppenw0lf