Lux 50 Asph to Summi 50 AA

[ananda]

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I am considering going to the lighter of the two lenses, but of course the cost is high. Who has done this and frankly, is it worth the cost -- and the loss of 1.4.?? I would have to figure that the Summicron AA 50 is going to be a lens that after 5 years will likely hold its value undamaged.

[BBHewee]

I've done it. The loss of 1.4 is no issue as I use a M240 and MM246 as far as light gathering is concerned. 

The 50 APO is a spectacular lens, which renders with something that's so natural, it can't be explained. But it's also capable way beyond my own skills. 

[DezFoto]

is it worth the cost -- and the loss of 1.4.??

A stop of light is a stop of light, so if you're normally shooting in very low light at ISO 1600, then you'll have to be comfortable shooting at ISO 3200 in the same situation, either that or lose a shot of shutter speed. If you don't shoot in those kinds of conditions often, then I doubt very much that you would miss f/1.4

 

But it's also capable way beyond my own skills. 

 

I don't understand this statement, the lens just projects light onto the sensor/film plane, you're the one doing all the hard work! 

 

[NB23]

Both are "summis" (please let's not start new useless terms, the leica world has enough of them already).

 

Please don't base your photographic decision on how well the lens will/should hold its value. This would be an anti-photographic decision.

 

Ask yourself if you'd switch to a regular cron. No? Why? Because of the loss of a stop or because of the loss of perceived quality? Size?

 

The answer is all there.

You know, the best decision might well be to switch for a cron V3 and cash the difference. Why not.

[microview]

I am considering going to the lighter of the two lenses, but of course the cost is high. 

 

The weight difference is not that great 300g Summicron / 330g Summilux, versus cheaper Summicron at 242g.

[DezFoto]

The weight difference is not that great 300g Summicron / 330g Summilux, versus cheaper Summicron at 242g.

 

And then there's the Summarit, which is even smaller and lighter at 190g. It's my personal favourite travel lens because of that, and I also really enjoy the look it gives. 

[lct]

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I have both lenses and use much the 50/1.4 asph in low light where it is hardly replaceable IMO. Otherwise the 50/2 apo is better in all counts but flare to which i find the 50/1.4 asph a bit more resistant. Now i don't see significant differences at f/5.6 and on to be honest. From f/2 to f/4 the apo is sharper on edges and corners and has a smoother bokeh but it is a matter of tastes obviously.

[james.liam]

I have both lenses and use much the 50/1.4 asph in low light where it is hardly replaceable IMO. Otherwise the 50/2 apo is better in all counts but flare to which i find the 50/1.4 asph a bit more resistant. Now i don't see significant differences at f/5.6 and on to be honest. From f/2 to f/4 the apo is sharper on edges and corners and has a smoother bokeh but it is a matter of tastes obviously.

 

The difference between the Lux ASPH and Cron APO isn't dramatic in the first place, nor readily apparent on color sensors whether 18 or 24 MP are in play.

Truth be told all of Leica's 50s converge in performance once f/5.6 is reached, each with its own look. However, on center the APO is about as sharp at f/2 as the other become by f/5.6. Completely different story when looking at the MM, where 18 or 24 MP is far more than that in practice.

 

Just a hunch, but with the appearance of the SL 50/1.4 in 2017, you've got to wonder whether a refresh of the 50 M Summilux, introduced in 2004, might not be in the offing...

[darylgo]

Yes, well worth it IMHO. I recently did this and tested two samples of the 50 APO against the 50 lux. On center there is very little difference in sharpness, the edges and corners resolve better on the 50 APO. They are so close on the M240 in practice, that differences are small except the APO appears smoother to my subjective eye, shadow to highlight has a smoother rendering.

 

Regarding size, lens size is foremost to me when carrying a camera, small differences are felt.

 

Your economic evaluation of the APO is spot on.

[wattsy]

 I would have to figure that the Summicron AA 50 is going to be a lens that after 5 years will likely hold its value undamaged.

 

 

I rather doubt it unless you buy the lens second hand for a good price. Other than genuinely scarce items, Leica prices have been drifting down for some time now and there is no reason to expect that change any time soon.

[james.liam]

I am considering going to the lighter of the two lenses, but of course the cost is high. Who has done this and frankly, is it worth the cost -- and the loss of 1.4.?? I would have to figure that the Summicron AA 50 is going to be a lens that after 5 years will likely hold its value undamaged

 

Agree with 'wattsy'.

In times past, Leica early-adopters were usually shielded from steep depreciation by protracted supply scarcity and few equivalent alternatives. The poor souls who dished out US$8250/€7170 (+ EU VAT) for the 50 APO at its peak in 2013, watch now as others can get the same in the US, for around $5900/€5120 new. Looking at the Sigma 50/1.4 ART, 1,4/55 Otus or Batis lenses and the ZM 1,4/35 on purely technical criteria, the 50 APO and its brethren make less sense--not least of which being their poor compatibility with Sony E mount bodies--thus, market pressures reveal this weakness.

 

Having said that, a good second-hand copy of the APO purchased at ~$5k/€4400 ought to stay there for some time to come.

[MarkP]

I have both lenses and use much the 50/1.4 asph in low light where it is hardly replaceable IMO. Otherwise the 50/2 apo is better in all counts but flare to which i find the 50/1.4 asph a bit more resistant. Now i don't see significant differences at f/5.6 and on to be honest. From f/2 to f/4 the apo is sharper on edges and corners and has a smoother bokeh but it is a matter of tastes obviously.

 

 

I more or less agree with this.  This thread may be of interest (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/246073-add-elmar-m-50-or-rigid-summicron-to-summilux-50-asph/ posts 6 - 11), where I posted controlled comparison photographs from the APO-Summicron, Summilux ASPH (FLE), and Elmarit-M on the Monochrom.  The Elmar-M actually does very well.

[otho]

The poor souls who dished out US$8250/€7170 (+ EU VAT) for the 50 APO at its peak in 2013, watch now as others can get the same in the US, for around $5900/€5120 new.

That's true, but $ and € spending power and it's relation isn't the same in 2013 and 2016...

 

BTW, official price in Leica Store:

http://www.leica-store-muenchen.de/de/fotografie/fotografie/kategorie/m-objektive/produkt/apo-summicron-m-2050mm-asph.html

[darylgo]

Worse case scenario paying $8k and then selling for $5k is a cost of use of $3k for a phenomenal optic.  Or the lens could be kept for many many years of enjoyment, we know Leica lenses have no expiration date.  If I am willing to pay $8k for a lens I don't feel it any less valuable (as an optic) with the ebbs and flows of the market.   The dollar is weakening, Leica discounts are set to expire the used value may increase along with it.

 

Leica, in their own literature often mentions the tight tolerances and difficulties in producing the 50 Apo, could this be another 35AA situation in the making?

[otto.f]

I'm not so sure about that loss of speed. You see, the Apo 50 is in much more natural balance with the body, with whatever M from M3 to M240. So 1/15 should be perfectly possible. The Summilux50 tilts forward and is for its size relatively heavy, so you could ask yourself whether the 1/30 is fast enough to get that perfect sharpness. The (micro)contrast of the 50Apo is so wonderfull that a little movement blur will be forgiven, which is in my experience with the 50lux at 1.4 another story; I always shot at not wider than 1.7

The idea that at 5.6 all lenses are equal is a conversation-stopper that makes me laugh. For what purpose/idea do we own Leica lenses then? For full apertures and bo-keh, wasn't it? Sigma will do best at 5.6 I bet

[james.liam]

 

The idea that at 5.6 all lenses are equal is a conversation-stopper that makes me laugh. For what purpose/idea do we own Leica lenses then? For full apertures and bo-keh, wasn't it? Sigma will do best at 5.6 I bet

 

I think you may have misunderstood my point; f/5.6 and smaller is NOT where we are talking about using these.

Why, after all, buy a Noctilux to shoot at f/5.6? or a Summilux @ f/8? Pointless.

 

It's just when you get to there, the distinguishing characteristics of each optic begin to evaporate.

 

As for the Sigma, it's pretty damn impressive wide-open, especially when you consider the price--not crazy for the bokeh, though. Resolution-wise, it is superior to any CaNikon 50 made in the past 20 years.

[Jeff S]

Both are "summis" (please let's not start new useless terms, the leica world has enough of them already).

 

Please don't base your photographic decision on how well the lens will/should hold its value. This would be an anti-photographic decision.

 

Ask yourself if you'd switch to a regular cron. No? Why? Because of the loss of a stop or because of the loss of perceived quality? Size?

 

The answer is all there.

You know, the best decision might well be to switch for a cron V3 and cash the difference. Why not.

 

I assume you mean Summicron.  

 

Jeff

[otto.f]

It was directed towards lct's test of APO50, lux50 and Elmar50 at 5.6. And I hold my view

[Berlinman]

I did it and changed my 50lux in an 50Apo. The reason was the OOF-rendering not the sharpness. If you test both lenses look for these difference. The Apo is here very different to the lux and the Noctis. I added a 1.0-Nocti for the very different style. Found these combo perfect.

 

 

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[MarkP]

The Apo is here very different to the lux and the Noctis. I added a 1.0-Nocti for the very different style. Found these combo perfect.

 

 

 

 

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