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The Leica M-D thread - merged.

jcraf

By jcraf
in Leica M (Type 240 / 262)

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jaapv

jaapv

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Gosh I hate the word "chimp" 

I dont chimp...I check :D

I like Chimps :lol:

 

 

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

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Bill Livingston
Bill Livingston

I would be too... 0.6mm is 0.0236"!!!!!!!   To be honest Jaap... there is so much misinformation or just plain bias attached to these dimensions that I have just given up. This isn't anything to do

rivi1969
rivi1969

The perfect match for the M-D would be some special SD cards that only stored 36 pictures.

Guest JonathanP
Guest JonathanP

We're just seeing the run-out models used to extend the life of an exiting product. Car manufacturers generally keep adding bits whereas Leica tends to:   1. create a "plus" build mid-cycle (adding

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colonel

colonel

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Posted (edited)

Out of curiosity and haven't seen clarification on this; does M-D allow selection of either compressed or uncompressed DNG file? Thanks.

No

Uncompressed only

BTW you can download the manual online

Edited by colonel
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mmradman

mmradman

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No

Uncompressed only

BTW you can download the manual online

 

Thanks on the clarification.  So uncompressed DNG is now new norm it seems, SL and Q don't provide compressed option.

 

As for online download I know about that resource but have no real interest in this particular model (especially with above limitation), was busy downloading and installing new FW for M240/246 today.

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Tailwagger

Tailwagger

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There is no photograph without the photographer

 

Which says nothing about the purpose of photography.  

 

But beyond that, its not true. Forget about the fact that you can't walk a block in any city in the world without having dozens of images being taken of you. Some of, if not the greatest, most impactful, moving and profound photographs taken in the past 20 years where done by machines with no human involvement. 

 

This one comes to mind, and there was no human, let alone a photographer, within literally a billion kilometers.  

 

PIA18367.jpg

 

And one from closer to home. Can there be any doubt that this is the greatest selfie yet to be taken?

 

pia20284-curiosity-rover-mars-color-pano

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Herr Barnack

Herr Barnack

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I thought my camera was taking better photographs since the FW 2.0.3.0 upgrade?

Leica must have programed in a decisive moment feature.
 
No photographer needed :D 

 

 

Word is that an M camera that buys itself is just around the corner.

Edited by Carlos Danger
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Nick Bedford

Nick Bedford

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Congrats Leica for such a bold move! As a user of the M60 I can only recommend this new LCF-free camera! 

 

It even sounds like its good for the environment! ;) 

Edited by nickjbedford
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Nick Bedford

Nick Bedford

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Thanks on the clarification.  So uncompressed DNG is now new norm it seems, SL and Q don't provide compressed option.

 

As for online download I know about that resource but have no real interest in this particular model (especially with above limitation), was busy downloading and installing new FW for M240/246 today.

 

According the technical sheet it's DNG™ (raw data), compressed loss-free, JPEG but that may be a mistake since it doesn't shoot JPEG. I had a feeling it was compressed.

 

I recently switched all my M 240 profiles over to Compressed. I saw absolutely no difference whatsoever in the raw files. I don't know how they managed a whopping 50% compression without any degradation to dynamic range and pixel-level detail but hey, I'll take it.

Edited by nickjbedford
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Exodies

Exodies

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Word is that an M camera that buys itself is just around the corner.

 

 

Dogbert (from the Dilbert cartoons) was pushing no-click shopping on his online store at the time Amazon was promoting one click.

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pop

pop

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... I saw absolutely no difference whatsoever in the raw files. ...

If they are compressed, they use less storage space on the card and on the disk. Compressed image files with different content most likely will have different sizes.

 

If you can see a difference in the image (on the print or the screen), the compression has not been lossless. If it was losless, there will be no difference, visible or not.

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mmradman

mmradman

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According the technical sheet it's DNG™ (raw data), compressed loss-free, JPEG but that may be a mistake since it doesn't shoot JPEG. I had a feeling it was compressed.

 

I recently switched all my M 240 profiles over to Compressed. I saw absolutely no difference whatsoever in the raw files. I don't know how they managed a whopping 50% compression without any degradation to dynamic range and pixel-level detail but hey, I'll take it.

 

Thanks.

 

This post and post 582 offer different answer, as Leica manuals/data sheets are at times notoriously poor can somebody state typical RAW file size.

 

20Mb or thereabouts would indicate compressed - same as M240

40Mb would indicate uncompressed RAW - again same as M240

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colonel

colonel

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According the technical sheet it's DNG™ (raw data), compressed loss-free, JPEG but that may be a mistake since it doesn't shoot JPEG. I had a feeling it was compressed.

 

I recently switched all my M 240 profiles over to Compressed. I saw absolutely no difference whatsoever in the raw files. I don't know how they managed a whopping 50% compression without any degradation to dynamic range and pixel-level detail but hey, I'll take it.

 

There are lots of discussions in the past about this

 

Nevertheless, lossy compressed does discard information. Whether or not you can see it when the photo is in final form or editing is up to you

 

Its very difficult to see these things sometimes as one doesn't have direct comparison. It could be the uncompressed has better recovery or has less jagged or other things, but it is there somewhere

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pop

pop

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According to the data sheet, the compression in the Leica M (Typ 240) is lossless. That means that there are no differences in the images, neither gross nor subtle. Every single bit within the image will be presented to you as it was before the compression.

 

Some of the procedures for doing this are straight forward, such as dropping values which occur several times in succession and noting the number of occurrences instead. 

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mmradman

mmradman

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Lossless compression was implemented on M9/MM and M240/246 platforms, don't know about earlier platforms like M8 or S cameras.  

 

It is interesting, I think,  that recent Q and SL allow saving RAW files only in uncompressed state.  I don't think that has anything to do will loss of quality but by design or marketing decision, it could even be licensing issue as some of compression algorithms may be copyrighted.

 

There is wealth of mathematical methods for processing large data sets, digital image being one.  For instance In lossless compression bits of data with zero values are discarded as even zero value has to be stored in data file (I may be mixing this up with sparse matrix, clarification welcome).

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Guest JonathanP

Guest JonathanP

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The JPEG confusion arises from the fact that DNG lossless compression uses the lossless compression algorithm defined by JPEG (what is commonly referred to as a 'JPEG' is usually taken to mean lossy 8bit compressed image files, but that is only one option in the standards defined by the Joint Photographic Experts Group. They also happened to have defined a useful lossless compression algorithm).

 

Lossless compression is, as Pop has said, lossless and I don't think there is any compelling reason to use uncompressed DNG.

 

Jonathan 

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Kwesi

Kwesi

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This is a good article on the subject

 

http://thndl.com/how-dng-compresses-raw-data-with-lossless-jpeg92.html

 

The JPEG confusion arises from the fact that DNG lossless compression uses the lossless compression algorithm defined by JPEG (what is commonly referred to as a 'JPEG' is usually taken to mean lossy 8bit compressed image files, but that is only one option in the standards defined by the Joint Photographic Experts Group. They also happened to have defined a useful lossless compression algorithm).

 

Lossless compression is, as Pop has said, lossless and I don't think there is any compelling reason to use uncompressed DNG.

 

Jonathan 

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Tailwagger

Tailwagger

Posted
Posted

Somebody programmed those machines to push the shutter button...

 

Ah again, no. Hundreds, possibly thousands were involved, not somebody.   I doubt they think of them selves as photographers. Or did someone actually remotely pressed the shutter?  Gives new meaning to the notion of decisive moment, given in the case of the first photo, VF and shutter lag would have totaled over two hours.  

 

Wriggle all you like puny human meat bag, but soon, very soon, your presence will no longer be required. 

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