Using the M for Video?

[jack-tucker]

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Hi all,

so far I have never thought about using the M for Video. In fact I sometimes mentioned that I don't need this feature at all. But now I have an assignment coming up and was asked to shoot a short video as well.

 

So far I have not done much Video at all, neither with DSLRs nor with the M. First I was sure that I would bring my old and neglected 5DII along with the M, just for shooting the Video. But now I am wondering if the M could do that job as well. Is here anyone who has experience with shooting Video with the M (and maybe can compare to using the Canon 5DII or something similar)?

 

In case of going for the M: Do you have some important advise? How about the sound quality of the M (I don't have the additional stereo microphone.)? Shutter at 45 or 60? Auto ISO or fixed? 

 

I am excited about your opinions!

 

Regards,

 

Florian

 

[wda]

Florian, I have no experience of video with M240. But if you search the forum you will find one or two relevant threads to which experienced members wrote about their microphones and methods. At least one forum member has done just what you have been asked to do. Sorry I can't be more specific.

[chris_tribble]

As David says, there are threads on the forum that discuss this.  For static interview video the M with a cable extension for the mike (I use the Olympus one that fits in the M and which works perfectly) is excellent.  Example here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDAqYbDlgAg

This isn't fine art but it does the job the client wants.  I shot this with 35 summicron asph at f4 + 800 ISO / available light + Gitzo traveller tripod + a reflector.  As I do a fair degree of assignment work it's so nice not to have to carry a DSLR to do this kind of video.  When it comes to other kinds of work I couldn't advise - but if you think you're going to have to do cinematography or reportage then you might want to look for something else.

Hope this helps.

[STB]

...I have an assignment coming up and was asked to shoot a short video as well.

 

 

 

It would be helpful to know what the video is of.

[Jeffry Abt]

Chris, 

The video you gave as an example not only answered the question of Florian's post, but it was interesting in and of itself.

Jeff

[jack-tucker]

It would be helpful to know what the video is of.

 

It will be some video interviews and some additional shots of and about solar power plants in India as part of an corporate assignment. 

 

@ Chris: this proves that it would work for this particular assignment.

WOULD, because I can not get the Olympus SME-1 here in Indie, right now. I have already tried to capture a test Interview without the external microphone and sound quality is just too poor. So either I record sound with an additional audio recorder or I shoot the interview with my 5DII. I guess the latter makes more sense, even if I have to carry an additional camera with me.

 

Thanks a lot!

[STB]

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It will be some video interviews and some additional shots of and about solar power plants in India as part of an corporate assignment. 

 

So either I record sound with an additional audio recorder or I shoot the interview with my 5DII. I guess the latter makes more sense, even if I have to carry an additional camera with me.

 

You will get significantly better sound with a separate recorder (e.g. a Zoom) and mic (either a regular mic just out of frame and pointed at the interviewee's mouth, or a wired lapel mic).

[steamboat]

Quick video question. Can you shoot video just using the rangefinder window for framing and focusing? When you're in LIveView - which I assume you have to use for video - do the frame lines in the optical viewfinder disappear? 'Seems like that'd be a pretty quick way to shoot video. I'm considering options for a new camera since my M8.2 is well past 100,000 frame actuations and it may be about time.  Good topic - thanks. 

[jmahto]

Quick video question. Can you shoot video just using the rangefinder window for framing and focusing? When you're in LIveView - which I assume you have to use for video - do the frame lines in the optical viewfinder disappear? 'Seems like that'd be a pretty quick way to shoot video. I'm considering options for a new camera since my M8.2 is well past 100,000 frame actuations and it may be about time.  Good topic - thanks. 

Yes, you can shoot looking through RF window. I find it easy since I don't have to start LV (my LCD is covered most of the time). The framelines remain same as in photo mode. It is indeed a quick way to shoot video, however you have to be aware of which part of frame is going into video (and focus too).

 

For serious video, I would use EVF or rear LCD.

[jack-tucker]

Quick video question. Can you shoot video just using the rangefinder window for framing and focusing?

 

 

I am not an expert with video and video with the M (obviously ) but from my few tests I can say, that the possibility to adjust the focus while filming, by using the rangefinder, is really nice. 

 

You will get significantly better sound with a separate recorder (e.g. a Zoom) and mic (either a regular mic just out of frame and pointed at the interviewee's mouth, or a wired lapel mic).

 

Thanks for that suggestion. I like that idea, but for now I decided to use my 5DII with additional Rode video microphone. I will not be editing the files myself and don't want to deliver separate audio and video files... But for the future, M + additional audio recorder could be a good way to go, for me.

 

Regards,

Florian

[STB]

It makes sense to me to use the LCD screen for video, especially given that video frame lines are available, and indeed it makes sense to me to use zone focusing, but I have no idea why someone would use the rangefinder for video. Would greatly appreciate comments on the benefit.

 

I don't think that any serious videographer records sound directly to DSLR/Mirrorless cameras with the exception of certain YouTubers who make extensive use of what amounts to video selfies. These people - eg Casey Neistat, Ben Brown, Louis Cole, George Benson - are invariably within a couple of feet of the mic. If you watch their work, one of the things you'll notice is how bad the sound is when they are talking to anybody a few feet from their (mostly Rode) video mics.

 

With the greatest respect, I think that Mr. Tribble's King's College video (above) demonstrates everything that is wrong with recording sound to something like an M 240. Personally, I think that the sound on that clip is atrocious. And there's no excuse for it, unless you don't care about sound and think your client is too stupid to know the difference.

 

With current video editing software - eg Premier/Final Cut - it takes about 15 seconds to sync picture and properly recorded sound. Not exactly onerous.

[jack-tucker]

It makes sense to me to use the LCD screen for video, especially given that video frame lines are available, and indeed it makes sense to me to use zone focusing, but I have no idea why someone would use the rangefinder for video. Would greatly appreciate comments on the benefit.

 

I don't think that any serious videographer records sound directly to DSLR/Mirrorless cameras with the exception of certain YouTubers who make extensive use of what amounts to video selfies. These people - eg Casey Neistat, Ben Brown, Louis Cole, George Benson - are invariably within a couple of feet of the mic. If you watch their work, one of the things you'll notice is how bad the sound is when they are talking to anybody a few feet from their (mostly Rode) video mics.

 

With the greatest respect, I think that Mr. Tribble's King's College video (above) demonstrates everything that is wrong with recording sound to something like an M 240. Personally, I think that the sound on that clip is atrocious. And there's no excuse for it, unless you don't care about sound and think your client is too stupid to know the difference.

 

With current video editing software - eg Premier/Final Cut - it takes about 15 seconds to sync picture and properly recorded sound. Not exactly onerous.

 

Hi STB,

If you read the entry post, you will see that I am not trying to do serious videography. I am assigned to do a photo reportage and was asked to deliver some video footage along with the pictures. It will be edited by the client and will result in a ca 3 min. video. 

That's exactly why I asked how the M performs for video. I will have to travel around the country for several days and am not keen to carry around my DSLR equipment for that. Maybe that explains it to you why one would like to use a rangefinder for video? I doubt that anyone here thinks that the M is a tool for serious videographers.

Regards,

Florian

[STB]

I doubt that anyone here thinks that the M is a tool for serious videographers.

Regards,

Florian

 

Really. I don't know what you consider to be a serious videographer, but I use an M 240 with a Sound Devices recorder, Schoeps CMC641 and CMC62 mics, and, for various purposes from sound correction to loudness control to mix issues, iZotope RX 5 Advanced and iZotope Final Mix.

 

Whatever you think of the M 240, or your Canon, the bottom line is that you have decided to record third rate sound for your client, because you don't think that sound is important and/or because you think that your client won't know the difference.

 

What's fairly apparent at this point is that your client is paying for video from someone who doesn't know how the video functions on his camera work and doesn't know anything about sound recording. I hope your client is getting a really good rate, preferably free.

[jaapv]

Horses for courses. No need to get nasty.

Yes, I can hear as well as anybody else that the sound in Chris' video is not destined to be useful for recording the London Symphony Orchestra. However, it serves the purpose well, and if I were the client I would have no complaint. Would super gear and a sound crew have made this clip more useful for the purpose? No.

 

The point is that a minimal kit, just an external microphone, is ample for reportage-style video clips between the main product of a shoot: photographs.

[bocaburger]

Conversely I feel the M is a better tool than most other primarily-still-image cameras for a serious videographer than a casual one.  The lack of image stabilization means a tripod (or gyro, I suppose) is pretty much a necessity.  Because although some would boast of their hand-holding ability for stills, few would have the gall to assert they can hold steady throughout the duration of a video.  And lacking autofocus, the oft-touted technique of prefocusing and waiting for the subject to hit the mark is not a viable technique for video in most cases. 

I can see myself using the M even with internal microphone to make selfie videos in a quiet room, but for traveling, handholding, shooting moving subjects, I would prefer any current entry-level DSLR over the M due to AF and IS. 

[chris_tribble]

It will be some video interviews and some additional shots of and about solar power plants in India as part of an corporate assignment. 

 

@ Chris: this proves that it would work for this particular assignment.

WOULD, because I can not get the Olympus SME-1 here in Indie, right now. I have already tried to capture a test Interview without the external microphone and sound quality is just too poor. So either I record sound with an additional audio recorder or I shoot the interview with my 5DII. I guess the latter makes more sense, even if I have to carry an additional camera with me.

 

Thanks a lot!r

 

Jack. If you  contact Ivor art Red Dot in London I'm sure he could courier the Leica adaptor and mike  to you. 

http://www.reddotcameras.co.uk/other-m-items/4716-leica-microphone-adapter-set-typ-240.html

Not sure if there's a Leica main  dealer in India. You could check out Leica Store New Delhi Maurya-Hotel.

Best of luck

Chris

[jack-tucker]

Thanks Chris for the advise. I will check that.

 

Really. I don't know what you consider to be a serious videographer, but I use an M 240 with a Sound Devices recorder, Schoeps CMC641 and CMC62 mics, and, for various purposes from sound correction to loudness control to mix issues, iZotope RX 5 Advanced and iZotope Final Mix.

 

It makes sense to me to use the LCD screen for video, especially given that video frame lines are available, and indeed it makes sense to me to use zone focusing, but I have no idea why someone would use the rangefinder for video. Would greatly appreciate comments on the benefit.

 

Sorry, there was some misunderstanding from my side. I thought you need clarification why one would use a rangefinder (camera), not THE rangefinder (of the camera) for videography. If you are doing professional videography with your M, I did not mean to offend you. 

One reason I would use the rangefinder, at least additionally, is to focus. I find the rangefinder just much easier to focus than the LCD screen, especially outside in bright daylight. I would not use it for framing, during video. 

 

Whatever you think of the M 240, or your Canon, the bottom line is that you have decided to record third rate sound for your client, because you don't think that sound is important and/or because you think that your client won't know the difference.

 

 

Well, I have clear instructions and these show that the client is very much aware of the difference. I am advised to use a microphone clip or directional microphone for the video sound. Why do you think, you know what I think, that my client thinks??

 

 

What's fairly apparent at this point is that your client is paying for video from someone who doesn't know how the video functions on his camera work and doesn't know anything about sound recording. I hope your client is getting a really good rate, preferably free.

 

The video functions of both considered cameras are very simple to understand, though I already mentioned in the entry post, that I am not much experienced with video. (Have you read it, meanwhile?) 

And how much I charge my clients is really non of you business.

[steamboat]

It makes sense to me to use the LCD screen for video, especially given that video frame lines are available, and indeed it makes sense to me to use zone focusing, but I have no idea why someone would use the rangefinder for video. Would greatly appreciate comments on the benefit.

 

 

 

I was simply wondering if it was possible to do what I asked about. Thanks all, for the answers.