Jakobben Posted February 23, 2016 Share #1 Posted February 23, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I recently looked through some old in-camera Fuji x100 jpgs, and was wondering if I'm missing something in how to properly set up the jpgs in my Leica. I really want to shoot DNG+jpg, but my jpgs are rarely good enough to keep. Mostly the problem is around exposure - the leica really tends to make evrything too dark. With a baby on the way, I'm thinking my time is better spent away from the computer, so good jpgs would help me a lot (easier to just share directly). What are your jpg settings? (If you shoot jpgs, or have experience with it) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 23, 2016 Posted February 23, 2016 Hi Jakobben, Take a look here Better jpgs from M240. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
indergaard Posted February 23, 2016 Share #2 Posted February 23, 2016 If you want good jpeg's out of the camera, stick to the Fuji... Although it is possible to get decent jpeg's from the M240, it requires as you say spot on exposures. The camera tends to under-expose when shooting in landcape mode, and over-expose in portrait mode, so you have to get used to how the camere expose images in different scenarios, and then compensate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 23, 2016 Share #3 Posted February 23, 2016 Hi, I recently looked through some old in-camera Fuji x100 jpgs, and was wondering if I'm missing something in how to properly set up the jpgs in my Leica. I really want to shoot DNG+jpg, but my jpgs are rarely good enough to keep. Mostly the problem is around exposure - the leica really tends to make evrything too dark. With a baby on the way, I'm thinking my time is better spent away from the computer, so good jpgs would help me a lot (easier to just share directly). What are your jpg settings? (If you shoot jpgs, or have experience with it) How do you save time by using JPGs? Opening up an image in LR is exactly the same for JPG and DNG, hit quick develop and export. You won't even know what the original format was. BTW., Sharing directly is best done with WhatsApp on your phone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHAG Posted February 23, 2016 Share #4 Posted February 23, 2016 How do you save time by using JPGs? Opening up an image in LR is exactly the same for JPG and DNG, hit quick develop and export. You won't even know what the original format was. BTW., Sharing directly is best done with WhatsApp on your phone. Plus DNG is so much better, you'll have more valuable faithful pics of the precious ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted February 23, 2016 Share #5 Posted February 23, 2016 Hi, I recently looked through some old in-camera Fuji x100 jpgs, and was wondering if I'm missing something in how to properly set up the jpgs in my Leica. I really want to shoot DNG+jpg, but my jpgs are rarely good enough to keep. Mostly the problem is around exposure - the leica really tends to make evrything too dark. With a baby on the way, I'm thinking my time is better spent away from the computer, so good jpgs would help me a lot (easier to just share directly). What are your jpg settings? (If you shoot jpgs, or have experience with it) With jpgs you you really have to chimp and adjust otherwise your images will be under or overexposed depending on the factors at that particular time etc.. For general run of the mill I leave the settings alone. Auto shutter, choose A and usually dial in +2/3 EV.. Some PP may well be necessary.. DNG offers the best option for PP.. Very very few OOC jpgs are reasonable enough to get by without some PP..I will say images from my Safari/35mm Cron ASPH definitely need less PP than my X1 or XVario.. L Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted February 23, 2016 Share #6 Posted February 23, 2016 How do you save time by using JPGs? Opening up an image in LR is exactly the same for JPG and DNG, hit quick develop and export. You won't even know what the original format was. BTW., Sharing directly is best done with WhatsApp on your phone. Thanks Jappv for this excellent advice....It is what I do..... shoot DNG process in LR easy peasy But I don't understand, why it not important to Leica to create a camera that makes the best Jpg it can ? Isn't is simple firmware/processing tweak? Why doesn't Leica play up "The Leica Look" ? Does the "Leica Look" exist...... as a user...well no. I take a wonderful DNG and tweak it to my liking. When I first came to Leica from Nikon I shot both RAW and Jpg depending on my usage the Nikon Jpgs were wonderful. With Leica when I shoot color I only shoot DNG. This camera has a broad appeal, not just the Pro and Leica knows this. Why would Leica allow their famous "look" ( real or not ) to be a lousy Jpg? If this blog is a good cross section of Leica users, for the most part we all agree, the M makes a lousy Jpg, compared to other cameras. Doesn't it make good marketing sense to produce a camera that makes the best DNG and Jpg possible? ........ Its such an easy fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted February 23, 2016 Share #7 Posted February 23, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks Jappv for this excellent advice....It is what I do..... shoot DNG process in LR easy peasy But I don't understand, why it not important to Leica to create a camera that makes the best Jpg it can ? Isn't is simple firmware/processing tweak? Why doesn't Leica play up "The Leica Look" ? Does the "Leica Look" exist...... as a user...well no. I take a wonderful DNG and tweak it to my liking. When I first came to Leica from Nikon I shot both RAW and Jpg depending on my usage the Nikon Jpgs were wonderful. With Leica when I shoot color I only shoot DNG. This camera has a broad appeal, not just the Pro and Leica knows this. Why would Leica allow their famous "look" ( real or not ) to be a lousy Jpg? If this blog is a good cross section of Leica users, for the most part we all agree, the M makes a lousy Jpg, compared to other cameras. Doesn't it make good marketing sense to produce a camera that makes the best DNG and Jpg possible? ........ Its such an easy fix. Thats how it is, Leica have their own rules as to how they program.. Personally I find my D90 jpgs need tons of PP.. If DNG is the best, then use it..PP is not that hard.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakobben Posted February 23, 2016 Author Share #8 Posted February 23, 2016 If you want good jpeg's out of the camera, stick to the Fuji... Although it is possible to get decent jpeg's from the M240, it requires as you say spot on exposures. The camera tends to under-expose when shooting in landcape mode, and over-expose in portrait mode, so you have to get used to how the camere expose images in different scenarios, and then compensate. Thank you for the information, it was helpful. I hadn't thought that it would expose differently depending on orientation. I'll keep that in mind. How do you save time by using JPGs? Opening up an image in LR is exactly the same for JPG and DNG, hit quick develop and export. You won't even know what the original format was. BTW., Sharing directly is best done with WhatsApp on your phone. I never said it was about saving time. If the jpgs are good, I can just stick the SD card in my WD Passport Wireless, get the image to my iPhone and share them. That's what I did with the Fuji, and would like to be able to do with the Leica.W hen I have a batch of DNGs, I'll still sit down and do proper PP, archiving and backup. Sooo, how do you get your Leica images into WhatsApp, and how is that the best option...? Thanks Jappv for this excellent advice....It is what I do..... shoot DNG process in LR easy peasy But I don't understand, why it not important to Leica to create a camera that makes the best Jpg it can ? Isn't is simple firmware/processing tweak? Why doesn't Leica play up "The Leica Look" ? Does the "Leica Look" exist...... as a user...well no. I take a wonderful DNG and tweak it to my liking. When I first came to Leica from Nikon I shot both RAW and Jpg depending on my usage the Nikon Jpgs were wonderful. With Leica when I shoot color I only shoot DNG. This camera has a broad appeal, not just the Pro and Leica knows this. Why would Leica allow their famous "look" ( real or not ) to be a lousy Jpg? If this blog is a good cross section of Leica users, for the most part we all agree, the M makes a lousy Jpg, compared to other cameras. Doesn't it make good marketing sense to produce a camera that makes the best DNG and Jpg possible? ........ Its such an easy fix. Yes, a good jpg converter in-camera would be great. My original question was about in-camera settings, and how to get good jpgs. Maybe that is too much to wish for from Leica at this time... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted February 23, 2016 Share #9 Posted February 23, 2016 For me the shooting JPEG has no advantage unless I am able to easily share it on social media/email/whatsapp... Even Sony's wifi (the one I am familiar with) is cumbersome for me. What I want is the ability to simply copy the image to my dropbox without any fuss. If I have to go through my workflow of Connect_to_computer>Import_in_LR>Process>Publish then what's the use fo JPEG? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted February 23, 2016 Share #10 Posted February 23, 2016 jpg shooting has the advantage of very easily processed on mobile / tablets etc (while RAW/DNG can be processed-- not efficiently on tablets).... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted February 28, 2016 Share #11 Posted February 28, 2016 This is an important issue. We can't be expected to adjust all our neg filles in Lightroom (which Adobe has turned into a monster) all the time. Even when exposure is 'spot on' the Jpg's right out of the camera is poorer than out of an IPhone! My M-P240 has big problems with certain red colours. They are way off! I am at a world cruise right now, but will lay out comparisons confirming this when coming home. Any software up-date in sight for the M240 in sight? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2016 Share #12 Posted February 28, 2016 This is an important issue. We can't be expected to adjust all our neg filles in Lightroom Why not? An out-of-camera file is just a starting point. Did you shoot polaroids only in the time we were limited to film? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberti Posted February 28, 2016 Share #13 Posted February 28, 2016 With jpgs you you really have to chimp and adjust otherwise your images will be under or overexposed depending on the factors at that particular time etc.. For general run of the mill I leave the settings alone. Auto shutter, choose A and usually dial in +2/3 EV.. Some PP may well be necessary.. DNG offers the best option for PP.. Very very few OOC jpgs are reasonable enough to get by without some PP.. I will say images from my Safari/35mm Cron ASPH definitely need less PP than my X1 or XVario.. L Recently on a trip to Paris, knowing I did not have time afterwards, I took Jpeg. I was not dissatisfied. I had two options: smooth; and plain (everything standard). To my pleasant surprise, the smooth is very slide like (if I may say so), that is, with strong blacks, and this gives the impression of a larger contrast. You do have to check them more often when shooting. The plain setting needs very little pp attention. And my trick is: expose for the shadows, this is more comfortable than + 2/3 standard for all pictures. I agree the X100 files have a nice tonal balance but tend to be light (and can't by far compare with the M240 quality). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 28, 2016 Share #14 Posted February 28, 2016 Glad you are happy, but would it not have been more useful to set DNG+JPG? That way you could have cherry-picked the JPGs that you deemed good without PP and done a (quick) correction on any shots that needed post-processing at a later point in time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyalf Posted February 28, 2016 Share #15 Posted February 28, 2016 Hi, I don't know if this is the correct answer, perhaps others can correct me.My understanding is that the "correct" exposure might be different for jpeg versus raw. Since the M is targeted at photo enthusiast that mostly uses raw since this simply is a much better format it makes sense to optimize for raw. ... But I don't understand, why it not important to Leica to create a camera that makes the best Jpg it can ? Isn't is simple firmware/processing tweak? Why doesn't Leica play up "The Leica Look" ? Does the "Leica Look" exist...... as a user...well no. I take a wonderful DNG and tweak it to my liking. .... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECohen Posted February 28, 2016 Share #16 Posted February 28, 2016 Hi, I don't know if this is the correct answer, perhaps others can correct me. My understanding is that the "correct" exposure might be different for jpeg versus raw. Since the M is targeted at photo enthusiast that mostly uses raw since this simply is a much better format it makes sense to optimize for raw. I did not know that. You could be right but other manufactures seem to have a better handle on it, even the the exposure difference. I guess they choose to water down there raw for better Jps? I have a processing system so I'm good with RAW...just wondering....I sometimes wonder too much Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 29, 2016 Share #17 Posted February 29, 2016 Hi, I don't know if this is the correct answer, perhaps others can correct me. My understanding is that the "correct" exposure might be different for jpeg versus raw. Since the M is targeted at photo enthusiast that mostly uses raw since this simply is a much better format it makes sense to optimize for raw. As "correct" exposure is a bit of a moving target it is hard to say whether it is different for JPG or a raw conversion, as it does depend on the use of the exposure slider of the photographer. The data that generate the JPG are identical to the data that are used by the conversion. An in-camera JPG conversion will attempt to correct an underexposed image to be brighter and an overexposed image to be darker, level just like you would do yourself in postprocessing. It may be that the interpretation of the camera is different from the interpretation of the photographer in general though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem331 Posted February 29, 2016 Share #18 Posted February 29, 2016 I tend to shoot DNG + JEPG fine B&W. My experience is that I get JPEGs exposed as if I were using slide film (I remember Scala B&W slides), with perhaps a little more tolerance on exposure. My conclusion is that very good JPEGs are possible if exposure is accurate, and that this is no harder on an M240 than on an Analog M. I guess that there are some very good cameras out therethat will deliver a great computer interpretation of correct exposure irrespective of camera settings. That is great if that is what you need, but I prefer the Leica JPEGPs which are closer to what I expoae for. Incidentally, I like the B&W so much, that they often seem better than my lrocessed colour image. Specially a tad sharper. I do not know if it is because I am still improving my post processing or if it is an optical illusion of B&W ( if you understand what I mean) at least when viewed on screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted March 1, 2016 Share #19 Posted March 1, 2016 If you want good jpeg's out of the camera, stick to the Fuji... Although it is possible to get decent jpeg's from the M240, it requires as you say spot on exposures. The camera tends to under-expose when shooting in landcape mode, and over-expose in portrait mode, so you have to get used to how the camere expose images in different scenarios, and then compensate. What jaapv said. Same process in Lightroom or ACR. You can do mass conversion to JPEG in LR or photoshop. Around 2 sec per image. Manual exposure gives the same exposure landscape or portrait orientation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olsen Posted March 2, 2016 Share #20 Posted March 2, 2016 Why not? An out-of-camera file is just a starting point. Did you shoot polaroids only in the time we were limited to film? Because we are 'modern people' with other things to do. Spending time on Lightroom is a waste of time. Furhter: I expect Leica to produce jpg's right out of the box just as good as from an IPhone. - I am sure you agree. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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