meerec Posted February 10, 2017 Share #101 Posted February 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) TTL and HSS works on camera only. If you use a Nikon flash cable, off camera works. You are limited by the length of the cable. Without cable the SF 64 works as a thumb flash only, no TTL, no HSS. To be clear, I know what you wanted to say by "thumb flash" but more precisely: there is no TTL and no HSS when using *any* flash or *any* lights off-camera with remote triggers with the SL. As far as I know, SF40 and SF64 work as TTL and HSS in the SL hotshoe. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 10, 2017 Posted February 10, 2017 Hi meerec, Take a look here Flash performance very disappointing on the SL. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Alo Ako Posted February 10, 2017 Share #102 Posted February 10, 2017 there is no TTL and no HSS when using *any* flash or *any* lights off-camera with remote triggers with the SL. In your sense (TTL HSS, that is what the SF 64 does): that`s right. BUT: there are some strobes out there supporting non TTL HSS. They support any camera, any universal trigger. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #103 Posted February 10, 2017 - Adjust flash exposure on the fly (when using an SL)--sort of; you have to do it through the camera, not using the FEC wheel on the back. It's the opposite with an 'M' camera The SF 40 uses the rear dial on the SL as well. If you try and set FEC via the camera it just zeros itself when you close the dialog. The SF 58 has to be set on the flash as well. The SF64 can be set using either the camera or the flash controls and they communicate the settings with each other. The SF 64 is far more consistant and reliable on the SL than the SF58. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #104 Posted February 10, 2017 I have read many posts here about flash and the SL especially regarding on the SF 64. I am left confused and bewildered and without much confidence to purchase the Leica flash. I want to be able to put the flash on the camera and it to work with TTL and on or off camera HSS. Can someone say definitively that the SF64 will work as such on my SL? Ken There are significant performance differences between the flashes and there is also a huge difference between the camera with fw 1 and firmware 2.x. The SF64 works well on camera with HSS and TTL. Exposures are consistant. You can also use auto mode which is a bit different on the Leicas with the SF 58 or 64. It still gets the ISO and aperture settings from the camera but meters the exposure from a sensor in the flash. FEC doesn't work in this mode. Auto works well for backlit subjects as mirrorless cameras have issues with baclit TTL as the read both ambient and flash off the sensor. Auto does not work with the SF40 as on this flash (a rebadged Nissin i40) auto is the same as TTL but with no FEC. I photographed two weddings in the last month with the SL and SF64. Worked great. Off camera TTL and HSS only work with a TTL cable, Nikon type. I've tested up to 3 meter cables with success. Non TTL HSS flash is available with some transmitters. It's trail and error though. Most Nikon type HSS transmitters don't work. The camera sees an issue with the connector and shuts the hotshoe down. Canon type and single pin triggers are more successful. I have not personally tested manual HSS with the SL. I use both Godox and Elinchrom strobes but not with HSS. Gordon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
profus Posted February 10, 2017 Share #105 Posted February 10, 2017 Auto does not work with the SF40 as on this flash (a rebadged Nissin i40) auto is the same as TTL but with no FEC. Gordon Would this Nissin i40 work on SL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted February 10, 2017 Share #106 Posted February 10, 2017 The SF 40 uses the rear dial on the SL as well. If you try and set FEC via the camera it just zeros itself when you close the dialog. The SF 58 has to be set on the flash as well. The SF64 can be set using either the camera or the flash controls and they communicate the settings with each other. The SF 64 is far more consistant and reliable on the SL than the SF58. Gordon I thought it was the other way around... Dang it, that's twice in one week I answered a quesiton on this forum using my memory, and my memory was faulty. That'll teach me. I thought the SL ignored the FEC on the SF40 dial and required you to set it in-camera. It seems it is the other way around--have to set it on the flash. - Jared Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #107 Posted February 10, 2017 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought it was the other way around... Dang it, that's twice in one week I answered a quesiton on this forum using my memory, and my memory was faulty. That'll teach me. I thought the SL ignored the FEC on the SF40 dial and required you to set it in-camera. It seems it is the other way around--have to set it on the flash. - Jared Pre- firmware 2.0 neither worked properly. The dial didn't talk to the camera and you could make a setting in camera but it did nothing. That's probably why the confusion. Easy enough to do with all the changes the SL has had with f.w. 2.x Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share #108 Posted February 10, 2017 Would this Nissin i40 work on SL? No. Nissin doesn't sell a Leica version of the i40 directly. They have a deal to supply Leica and not sell them directly. You need the one with the red dot if you want TTL. I have the Fuji and Sony versions of the i40 as well and you can use them as a little manual flash. It's the same with Metz, They make the SF26 and 64 but don't sell a Leica version directly. No way around the Leica tax for TTL flash. Gordon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jared Posted February 10, 2017 Share #109 Posted February 10, 2017 Pre- firmware 2.0 neither worked properly. The dial didn't talk to the camera and you could make a setting in camera but it did nothing. That's probably why the confusion. Easy enough to do with all the changes the SL has had with f.w. 2.x Gordon Not certain that's actually why I was remembering wrong, but I'll take it! I was working off my pre-firmware 2.0 experience! Yeah, that's it! - Jared 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Abrahams Posted March 27, 2017 Share #110 Posted March 27, 2017 How does TTL on the SF64 work when using M lenses on the SL? Or doesnt it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Ako Posted March 27, 2017 Share #111 Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) The same way as with any other lens on the SL...it works. Otherwise it wouldn`t be TTL. Edited March 27, 2017 by Alo Ako 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share #112 Posted March 27, 2017 How does TTL on the SF64 work when using M lenses on the SL? Or doesnt it? TTL is essentially the same. The sensor measures the light reaching it and tells the flash to shut down when it has the amount it wants. Even the flash zoom works with six bit coded M lenses. Manual is exactly the same regardless of lens type. Auto is different with M lenses compared to SL lenses. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Black Posted March 27, 2017 Share #113 Posted March 27, 2017 Gordon - how are you handling fill in outdoor daylight portraits? I expected to leave the camera in A mode, the SL would float the shutter speed, the SF-64 would go into TTL-HSS mode and add some fill. Fill would be controlled via me with -FEC or +FEC. That's not how it's working. In A mode the shutter speed tops out 1/180. I can't force the flash into TTL HSS mode and get higher shutter speeds. To get into TTL HSS for shutter speeds like 1/500, etc. I need to go into M mode. And for outdoor fill I'm basically in full manual mode with camera. Not what I expected. Just curious how you're managing the outdoor fill (in daylight). For indoor in dark condition, set-up is working really well. It's just the outdoor where I feel like I must missing something really simple... Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share #114 Posted March 27, 2017 Gordon - how are you handling fill in outdoor daylight portraits? I expected to leave the camera in A mode, the SL would float the shutter speed, the SF-64 would go into TTL-HSS mode and add some fill. Fill would be controlled via me with -FEC or +FEC. That's not how it's working. In A mode the shutter speed tops out 1/180. I can't force the flash into TTL HSS mode and get higher shutter speeds. To get into TTL HSS for shutter speeds like 1/500, etc. I need to go into M mode. And for outdoor fill I'm basically in full manual mode with camera. Not what I expected. Just curious how you're managing the outdoor fill (in daylight). For indoor in dark condition, set-up is working really well. It's just the outdoor where I feel like I must missing something really simple... Thank you. That's not what's happening to me. You made me look so I just checked and did a test in Aperture Priority, 50mm, 400 ISO at f1.4 and the SF64 went into HSS-TTL automatically. Not sure what setting would do what you describe but it should and does work like you thought it should. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alo Ako Posted March 27, 2017 Share #115 Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) That's not how it's working.... Maybe you have to enable HSS...("Automatic high-speed synchronization is set on the camera (see camera manual). HSS is then also shown in the ash unit display. ") Edited March 27, 2017 by Alo Ako Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 27, 2017 Share #116 Posted March 27, 2017 TTL HSS mode should switch on automatically on the SF64 and an SF58 with firmware 2.0 pre-loaded (this is not updatable from FW1.0, in spite of Leica's promises of updatable FW on the SF58 and even putting a port on to do so). In TTL mode on the SF58 with V1.0 FW, sometimes HSS switches itself on, sometimes it doesn't and you have to do it manually. There must be some parameter which alters this behaviour but I have not yet tracked it down. I note that John said he was in A mode. For fill in to work on either the 58 or 64, they have to be in TTL mode. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski542002 Posted March 27, 2017 Share #117 Posted March 27, 2017 TTL is essentially the same. The sensor measures the light reaching it and tells the flash to shut down when it has the amount it wants. Even the flash zoom works with six bit coded M lenses. Manual is exactly the same regardless of lens type. Auto is different with M lenses compared to SL lenses. Gordon Good morning: How is "Auto" different on the M lenses compared to SL lenses. I have M lenses (no SL), and am considering the SF64. Also a bit confused, I have the 58. Is there no way for the user (me) to upgrade the FW on this flash? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted March 27, 2017 Share #118 Posted March 27, 2017 Good morning: How is "Auto" different on the M lenses compared to SL lenses. I have M lenses (no SL), and am considering the SF64. Also a bit confused, I have the 58. Is there no way for the user (me) to upgrade the FW on this flash? The FW on the 58 if you are on version 1.0 cannot apparently be upgraded to V2.0, supposedly because there were alterations to the control circuitry between the two versions. It would be more accurate to call the versions of the SF58 Mk.1 and Mk.2, which each have their own firmware. The company that made these Metz GmbH, went into receivership in 2014 and there are two new companies that sprang phoenix-like, from the ashes. The one that deals with flashes is called Metz-Mecatech GmbH. I would doubt they have any interest at all in providing any updates or service for legacy flashes. I found it interesting that Leica have hedged their bets and gone to Nissin for one of their new flashes. Even though Leica and Metz were virtually next door to each other, when Leica was at Solms, flashes never seem to have worked very well on Leica cameras. The SCA module system's linking with Leica cameras was poor, with missing functions, compared with say Contax, where everything worked perfectly. I assume that flash for Leica, is always low on their priority list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski542002 Posted March 27, 2017 Share #119 Posted March 27, 2017 The FW on the 58 if you are on version 1.0 cannot apparently be upgraded to V2.0, supposedly because there were alterations to the control circuitry between the two versions. It would be more accurate to call the versions of the SF58 Mk.1 and Mk.2, which each have their own firmware. The company that made these Metz GmbH, went into receivership in 2014 and there are two new companies that sprang phoenix-like, from the ashes. The one that deals with flashes is called Metz-Mecatech GmbH. I would doubt they have any interest at all in providing any updates or service for legacy flashes. I found it interesting that Leica have hedged their bets and gone to Nissin for one of their new flashes. Even though Leica and Metz were virtually next door to each other, when Leica was at Solms, flashes never seem to have worked very well on Leica cameras. The SCA module system's linking with Leica cameras was poor, with missing functions, compared with say Contax, where everything worked perfectly. I assume that flash for Leica, is always low on their priority list. Boy, that's great news all around :0 None-the-less,I appreciate the time you took to reply! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted March 27, 2017 Author Share #120 Posted March 27, 2017 Good morning: How is "Auto" different on the M lenses compared to SL lenses. I have M lenses (no SL), and am considering the SF64. Also a bit confused, I have the 58. Is there no way for the user (me) to upgrade the FW on this flash? With the Auto mode on the SF 64 (and 58 for that matter) and an electronically coupled lens, aperture information is passed from the camera to the flash for the light sensor in the flash. So if you change the aperture on the camera the flash gets that information and changes the value on the flash as well. M lenses can't pass on this information so you need to set the aperture on the flash manually. In addition the lens needs to be 6 bit coded if the focal length information is passed through to zoom the flash head. No way to upgrade the SF58. I have a V1 and V2. Don't notice much difference. The SF64 is defifitely better than either though. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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