PaulJohn Posted January 14, 2016 Share #1 Posted January 14, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) I shoot predominantly b&w on my M-P using lightroom to convert with software colour filters to darken skies etc. Any who has done this will know that it has limitations and that the edges of the filtered colored areas become problematic. Do people still use colour filters in these instances are is there a better software solution? Also, has the capability of software affected your choice of filters? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Hi PaulJohn, Take a look here Color filters for m240 b/w vs software conversion.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 14, 2016 Share #2 Posted January 14, 2016 Some do, some don't, there have been heated discussions on the subject. Whatever the technical aspects, "filtering" in postprocessing is more convenient and flexible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted January 15, 2016 Share #3 Posted January 15, 2016 With Leica DNGs I find I have to do the minimum of work in LR, assuming I've exposed correctly, I then ship a TIFF to SEP2 and have phenomenol options with the colour filter, and other sliders. Haven't considered lens filters, thought they were for film and digital monochrome users only. Downsides of optical filters for me are cost and inconvenience, plus if you get the choice of filter wrong when you look at the RAW file sometime later, you've limited your options somewhat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJohn Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share #4 Posted January 15, 2016 With Leica DNGs I find I have to do the minimum of work in LR, assuming I've exposed correctly, I then ship a TIFF to SEP2 and have phenomenol options with the colour filter, and other sliders. Haven't considered lens filters, thought they were for film and digital monochrome users only. Downsides of optical filters for me are cost and inconvenience, plus if you get the choice of filter wrong when you look at the RAW file sometime later, you've limited your options somewhat. I am trying to get the really dark skies that Ansel Adams achieved with red filters. If there is a tree in the foreground the edges between the tree and the sky go weird as I darken the sky. Applying a red filter in SEP2 seems just as weird as dropping the blues in LR. Here is an example of photo where Adams employed a deep red filter https://assets.paddle8.com/510/539/32638/32638-1400264998-25.jpg I'm not convinced this is achievable in software but would like to be proved wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Ricoh Posted January 15, 2016 Share #5 Posted January 15, 2016 That's some shot by Mr Adams!! I can't add further to the discussion, unfortunately, but await further replies from those better informed. Interesting thread! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJohn Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share #6 Posted January 15, 2016 Actually having tried SEP2 some more it is significantly better than LR. The method is completely different as SEP2 is filtering red where LR is darkening blues: The effect on the rest of the image is also different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJohn Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share #7 Posted January 15, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Two more images. This time LR is better IMO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2016 Share #8 Posted January 15, 2016 Actually the best way to do this is to use an 092 filter preferably on an M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJohn Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share #9 Posted January 15, 2016 Actually the best way to do this is to use an 092 filter preferably on an M8. Thanks Jaap, but why the M8? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2016 Share #10 Posted January 15, 2016 Because it will pick up the infrared, which will make a dramatic effect. http://www.jaapvphotography.eu/fotogroot.php?id=186 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJohn Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share #11 Posted January 15, 2016 Aaaah yes. That looks magnificent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 15, 2016 Share #12 Posted January 15, 2016 That's some shot by Mr Adams!! Proper notation... Monolith, The Face of Half Dome, Yosemite National Park, California, 1927 Adams wrote and spoke frequently about this image, as it was the very first one where he 'visualized' the resulting print (or as some erroneously say, 'pre-visualized'....Adams thought this redundant). Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 15, 2016 Share #13 Posted January 15, 2016 I am trying to get the really dark skies that Ansel Adams achieved with red filters. If there is a tree in the foreground the edges between the tree and the sky go weird as I darken the sky. Applying a red filter in SEP2 seems just as weird as dropping the blues in LR. Well, the good news is that if you don't figure it out right away, you have decades to achieve your desired result.... Adams printed his photograph, Moonrise, Hernandez, New Mexico, 1941 over a 34 year period, with increasingly darker skies as he continually reinterpreted his desired result (maybe he should have called this 'post-visualization')... http://www.andrewsmithgallery.com/exhibitions/anseladams/arrington/arrington_adams.html Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted January 15, 2016 Share #14 Posted January 15, 2016 I am trying to get the really dark skies that Ansel Adams achieved with red filters. If there is a tree in the foreground the edges between the tree and the sky go weird as I darken the sky. Applying a red filter in SEP2 seems just as weird as dropping the blues in LR. Here is an example of photo where Adams employed a deep red filter https://assets.paddle8.com/510/539/32638/32638-1400264998-25.jpg I'm not convinced this is achievable in software but would like to be proved wrong. Give this a try and see if it helps any. I'm going to do three posts so the files are big enough you can tell what's really happening. Start with a RAW color image exposed and processed to your taste. I'm using Photoshop CC, but as the ACR is the same in Lightroom I assume it works there also. The example happens to represent my idea of correct exposure and processing, but if someone feels otherwise that's fine, the concept is still the same. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255590-color-filters-for-m240-bw-vs-software-conversion/?do=findComment&comment=2969335'>More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted January 15, 2016 Share #15 Posted January 15, 2016 Next, open the file in ACR and select the HSL/Grayscale command. Check the box Convert to Grayscale and you'll get Adobe's idea of what a greyscale converse should look like. Select the Auto command and it may improve a bit. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255590-color-filters-for-m240-bw-vs-software-conversion/?do=findComment&comment=2969337'>More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted January 15, 2016 Share #16 Posted January 15, 2016 Grab the Blue and Aquas sliders and move them to the left to suit. That gets you to the general neighborhood ow what you might think a red filter would look like. It's easy to get the sky to turn a solid black, which is not where you are trying to go. Experiment some. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255590-color-filters-for-m240-bw-vs-software-conversion/?do=findComment&comment=2969341'>More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted January 15, 2016 Share #17 Posted January 15, 2016 This is a 200% fro the above image. The edge between the castle and the black sky is reasonably well defined and displays a minimum of the white outline sometimes seen with Silver Efex or suchlike plugins.. This is from an M8 incidentally. You will likely need to add a slight S-Curve as demonstrated in the final version below to get the blacks and whites where you want them and may need to fiddle with the midtones as well. I can't seem to get the very small file sizes imposed of the forum to show the effect very well, so you'll need to experiment yourself. Hopefully this will get you closer to what you are seeking. As a practical matter, I find that sometimes this method works best for me and sometimes I just can't beat SEP Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255590-color-filters-for-m240-bw-vs-software-conversion/?do=findComment&comment=2969342'>More sharing options...
Schrödinger's cat Posted January 15, 2016 Share #18 Posted January 15, 2016 As I don't use Lightroom I'm not familiar with what commands are available, but in Photoshop you also have the Channel Mixer and the Black and White commands, which do pretty much the same thing with the added benefit of supporting a red filter preset. I have no idea if this helps get to where you wanted to be or not, perhaps it will provide some ideas. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255590-color-filters-for-m240-bw-vs-software-conversion/?do=findComment&comment=2969351'>More sharing options...
PaulJohn Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share #19 Posted January 15, 2016 Thanks I will give that a go. I've been avoiding photoshop which is a shame as I am paying for it on CC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulJohn Posted January 15, 2016 Author Share #20 Posted January 15, 2016 Thanks for the help. I've previously avoided PS which is a shame as it is more powerful than LR and I am paying for it on CC. My efforts didn't work at first as my sky was too light. I dropped the blue luminance in LR before converting to b/w in PS and that has given me the best control yet. I can actually achieve a complete black sky without compromising the non-sky areas. Not that black is the best image but it shows what is possible. original image step 1 step 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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