Behavioural changes brought about by the M8

[phovsho]

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How has your photographic experience adapted in response to the M8? For me, the major differences as compared to how I used to shoot with an M6/M7/MP are:

• Aperture priority – despite the M7 offering this feature, that camera never took off for me. Rather, I favoured the manual selection of the aperture and shutter speed combination on the M6/MP. With the M8 the camera is 90% of the time on A-priority. Why? M7 never appealed as it was really a battery dependent analog camera. M8 is by definition battery dependent, so if your shooting digital might as well use some of the features.

• Noctilux as a daytime lens – Always thought of this lens as a single aperture lens e.g., f 1.0. The faster shutter speeds offered on the M8 means I can use that aperture in a wider range of lighting situations. Focusing is proving easier. Difficult to say whether this is a trend or a fad.

• Favouring smaller/slower lens – I’m taking the camera with me more places, often not necessarily primarily motivated by photography. So I want a smaller camera than the MP with a 35/1.4 on it. Solution: 28/2.8.

 

All the other differences are more to do with digital versus film cameras, rather than the specific differences in features between Leica analog cameras and the M8.

 

What are your experiences?

 

Murray

[tashley]

What a great question!

 

The M8 has not only emptied my wallet, again and again (why does one M lens at $3,000 + feel no more naughty than a digital compact?) but has greatly improved my photography. I have no real idea why but I think it is to do with there being fewer (and therefore, strangely more) options. I shoot aperture priority nearly always but I also always lock exposure off the relevant area first. I also shoot much wider apertures on average than with previous DSLR kit (Kodak SLRn and Canon 5D) so focus is more critical as is bokeh signature.

 

I also shoot much more intimately with my subject. It may be placebo effect but I feel much less intrusive with an M8, so I take shots that I would have been shy of before.

 

I print bigger. Much bigger. And this is in part because I have chosen exactly where I want focus rather than letting the camera make a close guess, so what hangs on the wall is what I saw, rather than a collaborative effort. But it's also because the glass is so good to the edges.

 

I have a much heavier 'main bag' (much more glass, two bodies) but a much lighter day bag and therefore a less sore neck and shoulder.

 

And I have some great new friends, here. Also one or two new adversaries but hey!

 

Best

 

Tim

ps I have almost stopped cropping, despite the wildly mad framelines, and when I do it nearly always remains in the original height/width ratio. I have also almost stopped shooting portrait orientation. And I have no idea why either of these is the case.

[Eoin]

Photographic changes: More relaxed, more thoughtful, more enjoyable. More inclined to carry the camera then leave the camera at home. Still re-learning rangefinder viewing and missing lots of shots of the kids due to my lack of quick focus ability. Too dependent on AF over the past few years lost the knack.

 

Personal changes: Broke but happy

[wparsonsgisnet]

Yup, changed.

 

I thot I would miss the zoom when the M8 replaced my D2. Not necessarily.

 

I most often use a 24 or 35, merely cropping -- because there is SO MUCH detail, not to mention SHADOW detail with this camera.

 

With the D2 I was zooming in a lot. Hey, it was easy.

 

With the M8 I am using a slightly wider lens, focusing and then not using the finder, and communicating with my subject more. I regularly watch the scene over the top of the camera. With the M8, the image is so rich that I can focus and ignore the camera, shooting away with abandon.

 

A post elsewhere of a kid in a red cap is an example of this practice.

[chris_tribble]

Surprisingly to me, I am shooting about 50/50 portrait / landscape with the M8 compared with earlier experiences with the M6. Maybe the M7 was taking me in the same direction, but I used it only a short period before my need to shoot digital put it in the equipment drawer... I think it's that the focusing is so much easier than on my M6TTL - benefitting from the improvements that MP and late model M& owners have benefitted from. Also, maybe, the grip is helping. Both holding the camera portrait, and focusing are easier on the M8 that it's been on any other M that I've owned.

 

(Also interesting, as I had a .85 classic M6, but never liked the viewfinder on that as much as I do the one on the M8, despite the eulogies I've seen for the former, and the diatribes against the latter.)

 

and PS - I should say I CARRY the camera with at least one lens (28 Asph) everywhere - something that I'd stopped doing completely as I came to depend on Canon DSLRs - anyone want to buy a barely used 1D Mk2???)

[tashley]

anyone want to buy a barely used 1D Mk2???)

 

 

Nope!

 

[Ben Marks]

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I had been using the R-D1 as my primary digital camera. The M8's longer baselength RF has lead to several changes:

 

More use of Noctilux, 90 Summicron, and 75s - while I did get some useful images from these lenses on my R-D1, the M8 has really let me focus these lenses wide-open with confidence. Less use of the C/V 40/1.5. Oddly, much more use of a 90/2.8 Tele-Elmarit and 24 Elmarit. These are not lenses that I used extensively on my film M's or the R-D1, but they just sing on the M8.

 

Less use of the Dual-Range 50 on the M8 -- I really like how that lens draws . . . it works fine in macro mode on the M8, but it will have to sit on the R-D1 for normal use.

 

In terms of shooting style, I had not perceived the R-D1's 3 shot RAW buffer as a limitation, by I have to say (particularly when shooting portraits of children) the larger buffer on the M8 is very welcome.

 

Here's hoping for thousands of snaps!

 

Ben Marks

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Yea it sucked up all my disposable income. LOL

 

Now i have to eat at MCDonalds:D

[JT07]

Yea it sucked up all my disposable income. LOL

 

Now i have to eat at MCDonalds:D

 

 

 

But Guy, I bet your still able to order off the regular menu at McDonalds......

 

I'm barely scraping by on the "Dollar Menu" side of the board.

 

 

Quick behavioural changes I've noticed,

 

• I carry the M8 with me much more then I did previous M's
  
• I'm more willing to "experiment" and fail / learn instead of trying to hit each shot perfect and just failing, obviously from the lack of cost factor in making each image.
  
  
• I've shot a lot more candid portraits of the kids playing, at the park, in the backyard, etc,
  
  
• I've found I use the 90 cron far more often then I use to to get in tight on candids if I need to keep a little distance.
  
  
• I've use the Noct much more as an "all around" lens instead of just low light. Even daytime, outside, ocean background.
  
  
• I've shot much more with the thought, "I can crop this one in" instead of worrying about constantly switching lenses.
  
  
• I'm leaving the D200 at home on the closet shelve more and more and more.
  
  
• I've lost about 15 lbs saying, "I'll have the $1.00 Kids McNuggets and a glass of water from the tap please...."

Great question by the way,

 

 

JT

[Guest guy_mancuso]

Okay got a break from this project . JT that was a good one

 

okay seriously. i know hard to take. LOL

 

I actually have not enjoyed a camera this much personally in all of my long career and i seriously mean that, now my DMR is right behind this. Reason i say this is everyday you go to a job and when you go home you usually don't enjoy that job on your leisure time. For most people they leave the office and play around with there hobby and go to work the next day and that is there life , which is great. My career is different because it is always a part of me no matter what i am doing and it really is a 24 hr job because it is a small business and you want to be successfull and all that but photography was and is a hobby also but i really never took it on vacations and just a joy ride . I find myself now taking the M8 where i would have left any other camera in the office. At first i thought it was a new toy syndrome but that ain't it either. I actually throw it in the car and just go sometimes. My kids for example you would think i would have thousands of images of them, not so at all because any time I pick up a camera it is work, but lately that has all changed because i don't feel it as work now. I enjoy shooting this camera and there is a big difference between shooting a camera and enjoy shooting a camera. Very hard to explain but it is all good.

 

Now there is a second part of this and some may find this hard to believe. I started photography back in 1972 and turned pro at 19. Hope i got the math right there but anyway my point being I have used almost all 35mm film cameras, 2 1/4 cameras , speed graphics , 4x5 and 8x10. Now back when I started in digital was pretty far back also around the time the Apple Av 840 was made we bought a Nikon E2 but was made by Fuji , trying to remember this correctly and we also bought a Kodak 420 than i moved up with Nikon than Kodaks, Canons than Nikon again and eventually to the DMR and now the M8 and my point being in all this , is i shot many different brands and models in this time and they all sort of got the job done but was never really excited about the images quality until I bought the DMR and i did like the Canon 1DS the rest i did not like but finally when I came to leica gear i really started to see a difference in my files and i truly believe that is when i got into this enjoying shooting mode. It just does not feel like a job, hope this came across correctly it is hard to describe. okay back to work

[JT07]

Actually Guy, I think you've taken a very difficult thought to explain and in reality, explained it very clearly.

 

I am not a professional, nor have I ever been one. I'd call myself a serious amatuer who's done a few gigs over the years, mostly paying a few hundred dollars each at most but I completely understand your analogy. I pay the bills as a Bank Manager and the last think I want to do is come home from the office and start doing bank reconciliations or calculating APY's or interest rates. It's the furthest thing from my mind and if friends / family ever ask me banking questions at home, I usually say, "call me at the office tomorrow, it's the last thing I feel like talking about tonight." With that in mind, I've often wondered if a professional shooter takes his camera on vacation? or when he takes his wife / kids on a walk down to the park for the kids to play? If a professional shooter feels the same about his trade as I do mine, schlepping a camera bag loaded with gear is probably the last thing he feels like doing when spending time "away" or "off" from his job and with his family.

 

I think the way you described your new interest or "passion" maybe if that's the right way to put it is really dead on. In my case it's the oposite, since when my wife says after dinner, "let's take the girls down to the park so they can play." I jump up and say, "GREAT, let me run upstairs and grab my camera bag."

 

I guess that might be contradictory to what amatuers might think regarding professional shooters in that they always tend to think how lucky that a guy/gal can go out and make a living doing something they love or as you said, is a hobby by nature. Yet in reality, perhaps there are times that a professional envy's the amatuer and says, "I wish I could just pick up my camera and have fun on the weekend with the kids shooting images for fun instead of for work"

 

I might not be making sense but it's almost 2:30 am and it just got me to thinking.

 

Good stuff Guy, it takes a lot to get me to think so add that as another behavoural change the M8 has brought.

 

JT

[luigi bertolotti]

My experience with M8 is just starting (2 weeks) but I can already envision some matter of "behavioral change" as amateur; I can distinguish between two factors.

 

1) Digital in itself (M8 is my first Digicamera, think no others to come)

2) M8 in itself (I used M4/CL/IIIf, sometime Rolleiflex 6x6 or Super Ikonta 6x9)

 

For the first, of course I'm experiencing what for lot of people has became a standard for years: with Digital, you are not depending on film "times", you do not feel the impression to "risk to throw away" negs... so you shot more, you dare much more to afford risky or critical shots; a feature that has really struck me: ISO setting ! I never used 400 ASA or more on film: now, is so easy and sure to use 640/1250 when you need...

 

For the second... given my past on film cameras (no SLR, no zooms, no AF) the simply important thing for me is that no much has changed from M4 (about 75% of my shots are with M4) : and this is in my opinion the best praise I can give to M8.

 

I had a discussion with a friend of mine that for years, and still, has used SLR AF Canon with proper zooms etc, and is thinking to go to digital : he was astonished by the compactness an simplicity of M8 vs. the DSLR he's considering... astonished by the quality of my (very first !) prints : he asked me to lend M8 to him for a week or two before he decides to buy or not a big DSLR ... I refused definitely but proposed him a sort of bet :

- He BUYS an M8, body only

- I lend him a pair of lenses for a month or so

- If he decides to keep the M8, I'll sell him an old-but-very good lens of mine at an almost symbolic price (say, 100-150 Euros for an old and perfect Cron 50 or Elmarit 90...)

- If he decides NOT to keep the M8 and buy a DSLR... Ok, I lose the bet, I'll buy his M8 for 85% of the price he paid.

 

A strange bet, surely (a "win-win" or a "lose-lose" ? I have very seldom gone out with two bodies...), but he's seriously thinking of...

[jonoslack]

 

A strange bet, surely (a "win-win" or a "lose-lose" ? I have very seldom gone out with two bodies...), but he's seriously thinking of...

 

Sounds like win/win to me!

As for 'going out with two bodies' - not sure that partners would agree with that one!

I've never done it before, but I got a second body for 'backup', and I find that I use them both - small bag, one body with tri-elmar, one with 75 f2, and the WATE in between, still light enough, convenient, and you have all the bases covered.

[jonoslack]

Hi Murray

Great thread.

Everything's changed for me - having used SLR and then dSLR cameras from way back when (I somehow missed out on rangefinders before), it's really changed the way I work:

 

1. much more relaxed (I always carried a camera anyway, but now it's easy)

2. Composition is looser and much better - being able to see 'around' the frame is so liberating.

3. Focusing - interestingly how much better I am at getting what I want than Nikon were!

 

 

I love the fact that when you look through the viewfinder you always see the same aspect - just like my eyes in fact. With an SLR you see something different every time.

 

I love the simplicity as well - I'm pretty adept with digital cameras after these years, and could easily negotiate all the options in the D2x and D200 - but it's fabulous not to have to, and the limitations with the M8 are so small.

 

I think the only downside about it is that I'm more scared when using it for the 'real' work I do - I'm basically an amateur, and plan to stay that way, but I am getting bits of work here and there, some reasonably well paid. I found hiding behind a D2x and a 70-200 f2.8 a bit easier than confronting the victims with such a small object!

 

When you're out on the street and people say 'why are you using such an old fashioned camera' it's really quite a buzz - when the client says it, one needs to explain!

[Guest V64]

As an ex Canon owner used to Zooms I would put it this way. Please forgive the metaphor.

 

With a dslr/Zoom I found my approach would tend towards making an image of a 'Cat sitting on a Mat', with the M8 it would be to make an image of a 'Room with a Mat with a Cat sitting on it'.

 

That is the dslr/zoom would focus my attention on the 'cat' almost to the exclusion of anything else - with the M8 (and any other RF) I am able to direct my attention (once I have focussed the image) onto the whole scene and to compose the whole image.

 

Even a dslr with a fixed lens has the same affect - since one cant see anything outside the viewfinder.

 

Both extremes are of course valid - and all forms of camera have their +/-.

 

My primary reasons for changing were the more prosaic issue of weight and bulk - and to become inconspicuous and not an object of curiosity.

[lars_bergquist]

Well, there are a couple of changes, apart from the usual Great Lens Shift because of the cropping factor. I had prepared for this. But also:

 

• First, I had never been really comfortable with 50 mm lenses as I felt them to be a bit too 'tight'. I expected the same with 35 mm on the M8, but was pleasantly surprised. I now use my delightful little 1983 jubilee Summicron much more than I ever used my 50 mm lenses (the 35 mm Summilux is away for coding). A 35 mm is of course equivalent to a 47 mm with the M8, while Leica's '50 mm' lenses have always been closer to 52 mm, but can that really make such a difference? It seems so.

 

• I am a lot more willing to experiment. I have tried out new routines for bounce and fill flash with non-system units, for instance. I can see immediately if I got what I wanted – and maybe the next time I can get it the first time! The ability to check results in real time or close to it is a huge boon. (This does not mean of course that blind trial and error will get you anywhere. You must know what you are doing.)

 

The old man from the Age of Flash Powder

[David Wogan]

Biggest change is that my Nikon D200 now only wears lenses of 85mm and above. Everthing below that goes on eBay.

[Photoskeptic]

No changes. I don't find shooting an M8 all that much different from my manual film M's. Except it's bigger:D I do find I take a very few more images than film because I'm not wasting film, but then that's no different than any other digital.

[stevme]

I have both the MP and the M8.

 

I had some film that had been in the freezer a little too long and decided I'd better use it. Also, my 35/lux is in New Jersey being coded. So I popped on the 28/2.8 pancake and went shooting.

 

The first BIG difference after shooting with the M8 for about 6 months now, is the dramatically larger focus area in the MP! Also, my 28, now a "real" 28, has a MUCH larger coverage area. It was more work, though. No automatic exposure here. Nevertheless, I have been reading Ansel Adam's books on his Zone system and put them to good use (I hope) when photographing at the Vietnam Memorial wall here in DC (Zone IV for the wall). The shutter on the MP is noticeably quieter, although I was still noticed by visitors. So I spent more time thinking about my exposures, in part because I was trying to apply Zone values to my images. It was a bit awkward switching around the shutter speeds with the MP to try to get proper exposure and maintain depth of field. Also, I really noticed the limitations imposed by only a 1/1000 exposure on the MP as compared to 1/8000 on the M8. Certain narrow depth of field shots simply could not be taken with the MP, where the M8 doesn't involve a second thought.

 

One real problem with the MP: the necessity to wind the film. I simply could not knock off exposures with the speed available from the M8. Also, my thumb needed some training again.

 

We'll see how the images turned out. The film is at the National Geographic's lab (yes, they have one for regular folks) being processed.

 

Except for the thumb winding, though, I'd say the MP was a joy to use. It did lack the flexibilty of the M8 in terms of available exposures (not to consider adjustment of ISO on the M8), and rapidity of shots. On the other hand, the MP gives me quieter operation and a true 28 mm lens.

 

Steve

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[Skippy Sanchez]

.....Still re-learning rangefinder viewing and missing lots of shots of the kids due to my lack of quick focus ability. Too dependent on AF over the past few years lost the knack.....

 

Know what you mean, but in the proverbial bicycle analogy, the knack returns pretty quickly. Autofocus is a good thing, but I've missed many shots, particularly in low light, while the autofocus zips back and forth trying to find the spot.