eudemian Posted June 2, 2007 Share #21 Posted June 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have decided that it is better to have a collection of sd cards of 4Gb capacity for travel purposes, they are cheap and if one fails well you still have the rest but with a large storage Hard disk one failure is catastrophic. I know you can't review images with the sd card, that is unless you put them in the camera but I thought this was a good alternative. Of course, having both systems when travelling would be even better. Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 2, 2007 Posted June 2, 2007 Hi eudemian, Take a look here Jobo GigaVu Pro evo vs. Epson 5000 wth M8?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tashley Posted June 2, 2007 Share #22 Posted June 2, 2007 Thanks guys @Hans - I bought this device as a laptop replacement for travel. If I'm out and about all day with a camera, I historically have gone back to the hotel later and looked at the shots full screen to see if they were in good focus. While I was in Venice in February, this was how I discovered that my 35 lux had 'issues' and I was therefore able to go back and shoot stuff the next day. Not all of it - life had moved on - but some at least. And when you're in a busy street or canal ;-) you can't trust the chimping all the time IMHO so I do think that a proper 100% zoom is requisite. In any event, they do provide the loupe tool so they must think people will use it for this. @Graham - how long would you say from selecting a thumb of a fine jpeg to when you can zoom to 100% on the EPson. Like I say, it's as slow as a drunken slug on the Jobo... Best Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
4season Posted June 2, 2007 Share #23 Posted June 2, 2007 I have decided that it is better to have a collection of sd cards of 4Gb capacity for travel purposes, they are cheap and if one fails well you still have the rest but with a large storage Hard disk one failure is catastrophic. I know you can't review images with the sd card, that is unless you put them in the camera but I thought this was a good alternative. Of course, having both systems when travelling would be even better. Tom Good point about the hard drive; that's why the Jobo has a 2nd USB port for connecting an ordinary USB hard drive for backups. It also has a dust detection feature which highlights specks on the CCD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted June 2, 2007 Share #24 Posted June 2, 2007 Rendering a fine jpg M8 file on the screen full size (100%) takes about 5 seconds on the P-4000 the FIRST time through as the viewer runs through the album generating pre-views. For subsequent selections the image 100% previous are almost instant. Clicking to zoom further beyond full screen preview obviously seems to render the image at full resolution in memory in the background and takes about another 5-6 seconds. From there you can zoom in/out and pan around the image in real time with effectively instant response fom 100% -> 115% -> 136% -> 166% -> 214% -> 300% -> 500% ->1500%. At 100% you can see 2x3in image which is great for composition & artifact checking, plus first cut focus checking too. Hitting the first level of zoom will reveal any fine focus/blur very easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted June 2, 2007 Share #25 Posted June 2, 2007 Graham, Thank you! t Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrosell Posted June 2, 2007 Author Share #26 Posted June 2, 2007 Thanks indeed to all of you for the input. Actually, after looking to all the posts, it is certainly hard to decide. I have seen both the Epson and the Jobo from local friends both of whom just received them so have no experience on them. I felt the GVPE like being sturdier for the intended use plus the extra of the sensor cleanliness stuff. The slow operation as remarked by Tim is indeed a setback. On the other hand the experiences mentioned in this thread about traveling with the Epson, most particularly at 4,000 mtrs – an important consideration for my intended use – and the lack of major problems by most of the users that placed posts here, makes any decision still more difficult. The lack of the abilty to show DNGs may not be so hard to swallow for me as in any case I am shooting with the attached B&W jpeg (which by the way is the means to overcome the "confusion" in my almost natural previsualitazion of scenes in B&W, now somehow altered by the otherwise color chimps in the screen). I'll have to think it over for a while. In the meantime, the obvious route tot take is a load of SD cards... Thanks again, and regards to everyone! Horacio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 2, 2007 Share #27 Posted June 2, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4000 mtrs! I would really like to know where you are going! Only Titicaca or Tibet come to mind! Let me know please. Sander (now at sealevel, but sometimes.................!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted June 3, 2007 Share #28 Posted June 3, 2007 Horacio, The Epson stores the DNG's but does not show them. (I have the Epson P-3000) I understand from other posts that the Jobo does show them. I decided to get the Epson because it does other things as well and seems to have a better screen. For me I want a compact file storage to download my cards to on holidays and trips and the Epson is great for that. Others may have views on the Jobo. Best wishes Keith I bought an Epson P4000 when I was shooting Canon and hoped to use it with the DMR and now with the M8. When I put in the SD card I get a simple message saying there are no images on the card! What am I doing wrong Hopefully finding a way to use what I already bought......no new systems please Woody Spedden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwelland Posted June 3, 2007 Share #29 Posted June 3, 2007 What type of SD card is it? SD HC card support is sketchy with all these devices at the moment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrosell Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share #30 Posted June 3, 2007 4000 mtrs! I would really like to know where you are going! Only Titicaca or Tibet come to mind! Let me know please. Sander (now at sealevel, but sometimes.................!) Sander, I travel at least once a year to the Argentine Northwest. There are several little towns at near 3,800 mtrs high and to reach them you must cross passes on mountain winding dirty (stoney...) roads at anywhere between 4,000 to 5,000 meters. And the scenics are indeed marvelous at those altitudes.For instance there is a tiny coya village called Santa Ana which is at the end of a road that you must drive on for about 65 kms at approx 5,000 mtrs altitude. As a matter of facts, changing a flat tyre there is indeed an experience of effort and solitude and wind and condors flying past you... So what I mean is not that you may transit occasionally and briefly through high altitude but that you may happen to be there for 3/4 hours at least, each way. Not that I intend to transfer images from cards to any of these devices at those peaks, but sometimes I would like to show some pictures to the folks there. I wonder if any of these things would withstand the difference in pressure (and by the way also questioning myself about the M8 on this – what about the screen?) apart from the sometimes very rough roads. Regards, Horacio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrosell Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share #31 Posted June 3, 2007 Keith I bought an Epson P4000 when I was shooting Canon and hoped to use it with the DMR and now with the M8. When I put in the SD card I get a simple message saying there are no images on the card! What am I doing wrong Hopefully finding a way to use what I already bought......no new systems please Woody Spedden === What type of SD card is it? SD HC card support is sketchy with all these devices at the moment. === Woody: My suspicion is that maybe something around the formatting of the cards could be affecting their use in the Epson. It seems that other people in this forum are using the epson with cards from the M8 without problems. Can you open the images of those same cards in your computer? Gwelland: Otherwise, the M8 does not yet support SDHC, isn't it? Regards, Horacio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrosell Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share #32 Posted June 3, 2007 Horacio, I am an Epson P2000 'enamorado' for already 2 years. It does not read M8 DNG's, but the obvious, and readily working, solution is to also make a jpg and then download. The P 2000 faithfully downloads all files and only shows the jpg's so it's up to you what resolution you like. To be sure: try it out! The P2000, and sure the P5000, is a wonderful machine. It's battery lasts for ages, it works at 4000 meters (Peru) where all Ipods crashed, and also did well in the Borneo jungle. Highly recommended, and I am not taking my laptop to Indonesia in July :-) On a personal note: 'enamorado' I am also of Argentina, and I will never forget our dinner some years ago in a wonderful Puerto Madero restaurant with a Rutini Malbec 1998 that was heaven :-) My website (below) shows some pictures of the Salta region and a trekking north of Cachi. But I already visited Tierra del Fuego in 1978! After I bought my first Leica (M4-2) in Buenos Aires. Saludos from Amsterdam Sander, Sorry I couldn't reply to your earlier post before. I am happy to know that you enjoyed Argentina. Looking into your trekking map it seemed to me that you were quite close to one of the spots over 4,000 mtrs! On Route 40 towards the North from Cachi, you can go to La Poma (maybe you went there: it's a classic of the area, a town that suffered a heavy earthquake decades ago and a new village was formed 5 kms apart), after which the road becomes steeper and very narrow going up through the "Cuesta del Acay" which at the top is precisely 4,890 mtrs high. Forty kms after it and down to 3,800 mtrs you reach San Antonio de los Cobres. Also glad to hear about your taste for our good wines. Next time around here, please do not hesitate in contacting me. Kind regards, Horacio p.s.: Very nice pictures! You got the spirit of the area. And frankly speaking, you don't need polarizers in our North even with old lenses: the sky is so clear that you always get those deep blues! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 3, 2007 Share #33 Posted June 3, 2007 I can fully corroborate this mail on the Epson P series: Never use the USB except for copying downwhole folders to my PC. Always delete etc via the P-(2000) Gui, otherwise you make a mess anyway. Have installed all firmware updates with no problem. The latest gave support for 2Gb SDCards. Keep the unit in a soft pouch (Zing) in a Pelican case and keep the battery full. No problems: fingers crossed, but that applies to any electronic - and even non-electronic -gizmo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanhulsenbeek Posted June 3, 2007 Share #34 Posted June 3, 2007 very narrow going up through the "Cuesta del Acay" which at the top is precisely 4,890 mtrs high. Forty kms after it and down to 3,800 mtrs you reach San Antonio de los Cobres. Horacio, I think we saw the Acay quite a bit furtheron at our left in a narrow valley, while turning to the right over a 4650 pass, onwards to Santa Maria Tastil (?) Very wild mountains! But had no P-2000 then: still using an M7. The 4000 meter test was last year in Peru, at Titicaca level, or thereabouts. My Ipod 60Gb just clicked - and fortunately revived at sealevel. The P-2000 spinned like the usual: happy and fast :-) Sander Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bab Posted June 3, 2007 Share #35 Posted June 3, 2007 Wolverine ESP 120 GB Portable Multimedia Storage Player does this do the job! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dspeltz Posted June 4, 2007 Share #36 Posted June 4, 2007 Here is my take. I own the P4000, P5000 and the Giga Vue. I use them all for backup. I had to send the GigaVue Pro back for a fix (it crashed). Techs saved my data. I can see thumbnails. But there is no SD card insert slot, only CF. So why bother Epson 4000. Slots for SD and CF. Nice screen. Problem with the hard drive I have not solved, in showing 30 Gig used when nothing is on it. No thumbnails. P5000. Reliable, fast. No thumbnails. Both slots. I use this for the M8. I lend out the P4000. I use the GigaPro for my Hasselblad. Buy the Epson 5000. Just as good, cheaper, more convenient. Forget thumbnals. They are useless anyhow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted June 4, 2007 Share #37 Posted June 4, 2007 OK, I swapped my Jobo out for the P5000 this morning and have just had a quick play. Initial impression is that it is slicker and faster and that the screen feels better as a result of its greater size and despite it's lower pixel density. I think it's a pity that it doesn't offer incremental backup feature but I won't really miss the RAW support for Leica DNGs since it was so slow as to be useless. Neither do I miss the superficially attractive loupe function, since the zoom is quick anyway. I would prefer to have the OS in ROM rather than on disc, too, but the faster boot up time (about 5 seconds versus nearly 30 for the Jobo) is a LOT more practical. Overall and without having yet got into depth, it just feels like a more well designed bit of kit, even if less thought has gone in to some aspects of the feature set. tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrosell Posted June 6, 2007 Author Share #38 Posted June 6, 2007 OK, I swapped my Jobo out for the P5000 this morning and have just had a quick play. Initial impression is that it is slicker and faster and that the screen feels better as a result of its greater size and despite it's lower pixel density. I think it's a pity that it doesn't offer incremental backup feature but I won't really miss the RAW support for Leica DNGs since it was so slow as to be useless. Neither do I miss the superficially attractive loupe function, since the zoom is quick anyway. I would prefer to have the OS in ROM rather than on disc, too, but the faster boot up time (about 5 seconds versus nearly 30 for the Jobo) is a LOT more practical. Overall and without having yet got into depth, it just feels like a more well designed bit of kit, even if less thought has gone in to some aspects of the feature set. tim Tim, Many thanks for your impressions. I would appreciate your further comments on how the P5000 works so as to reinforce the very clear statements by David. I am now inclined to follow his suggestions and purchase the Epson. Best, Horacio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted June 6, 2007 Share #39 Posted June 6, 2007 Tim, Many thanks for your impressions. I would appreciate your further comments on how the P5000 works so as to reinforce the very clear statements by David. I am now inclined to follow his suggestions and purchase the Epson. Best, Horacio Hi Horacio, The more I use it the better I like it: it's the sort of product where you can imagine improvements but it's not your first reaction to return it, whereas the Jobo gave me that feeling within moments. The Epson is just much better sorted. An example of what I mean: the Jobo has a DV out as well as an AV out, for playing on flat screens at better quality. In the instruction book it refers to the cable for this as being 'included'. It isn't, it's proprietary, and you have to order it from Jobo. The manual had a misprint. And so on. I am sure there are some heavy duty pros who would prefer the Jobo FOR BACKUP but if you want something that does both backup AND lets you see the images well, quickly and easily, the Epson is the winner by a mile. And when you zoomto 200% which you have to do on both units if you want to see the image at the same physical size as 100% zoom on the M8 LCD, it looks like the M8 LCD but bigger, whereas the Jobo pixelates at over 100%. No brainer unless what you want is 90% a backup solution with incidentally useful but slow viewing. Best T Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
canlogic Posted June 6, 2007 Share #40 Posted June 6, 2007 Way overkill but I bought a Sony UX system. 4.5" screen running Vista with a 100gig drive. It has a cf port so I use an sd to cf adapter. I loaded Lightroom on it and use it for downloading and viewing the images. I did not buy it for this task but to use as a backup system when I am traveling so the photo stuff is just a benifit. It is a pricey option though. Not much bigger than my Epson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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