AlanG Posted January 14, 2016 Share #81 Posted January 14, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Kodak couldn't figure out how to shoot an interview on Super 8 using another camera if necessary? Why isn't this new camera intended for interviews? What is it ideal for? So if the footage is any good, then they should be proud to show us.... SOMETHING on Super 8. This is a visual medium isn't it? This is from a film company trying to promote why to use film. Just saying that some great Hollywood directors use film is simply more hype. Those directors are using large formats, have huge budgets, time, and simultaneously shoot video so they can review takes on the spot. And some will still project 70mm film. Working with Super 8 is nothing like that. Likewise, I could certainly see why someone would prefer to shoot b/w 8x10 film over using a Sony A7RII. More than 50 years after introducing Super 8, Kodak shows an unnamed, non-working prototype without any examples of what its images will look like. Is this not the definition of hype? BTW this was revealed at the Consumer Electronic Show and many attendees probably have no idea what Super 8 footage even looks like. Hype is when it is all talk and reality is when there is something to actually see and use. I read on Kodak's site that they are considering an initial run of 2,000 cameras and will see from there. Numbers like that kind of make me scratch my head about what all the hype is about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14, 2016 Posted January 14, 2016 Hi AlanG, Take a look here New Kodak Super8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
plasticman Posted January 14, 2016 Share #82 Posted January 14, 2016 AlanG, on 14 Jan 2016 - 17:08, said: Kodak couldn't figure out how to shoot an interview on Super 8 using another camera if necessary? Why isn't this new camera intended for interviews? What is it ideal for? So if the footage is any good, then they should be proud to show us.... It was really funny finding you criticizing Kodak in the YouTube comments, as well! I just wonder which other Super-8 and film forums you're busy on? Anyway, just to address that first point because you're not really asking any, serious questions: let's imagine you want to do a quick and informal news interview of a CEO 'backstage' at an electronics show. You have a few minutes to get the footage, and then you pretty much wanna whip it out onto YouTube within a couple hours. Why on earth - in what possible, absurd parallel universe - would you ever do that by shooting it on 8mm film, processing it, scanning it, cutting the footage together, and finally putting it on YouTube? WHY WOULD ANYONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND EVEN SUGGEST THAT SCENARIO?? This was a backstage, impromptu 'news' shoot. Anyway, I know you're just doing the usual, and the question isn't because you're genuinely wanting an answer. The funny part: no-one cares anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2016 Share #83 Posted January 14, 2016 Kodak shows an unnamed, non-working prototype without any examples of what its images will look like. Is this not the definition of hype? LOL, they're just copying Leica. Remeber the MINI M campaign! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted January 14, 2016 Share #84 Posted January 14, 2016 The facts are this is vaporware at this point. If most people at CES saw Super 8 footage from this thing the excitement would surely be quashed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 14, 2016 Share #85 Posted January 14, 2016 At time 1:13 in the promo, he says, "... the business is in printing, much more than (digital, etc)." That is the same spiel given to develop the Advantix Preview which used a little digital tech, but hijacked the potential in order to support their conventional photo printing. In fact, the incoming CEO for Kodak promised to keep Kodak in their traditional photo printing business. Advantix Preview did not work out very well. It did not work then. How will it work today? And what is Kodak 'printing' with this technology? The film is likely to get tossed anyway because it is the very smallest part of the process, and very expensive as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted January 14, 2016 Share #86 Posted January 14, 2016 The facts are this is vaporware at this point. If most people at CES saw Super 8 footage from this thing the excitement would surely be quashed. It's called a prototype Alan. Anyway, we get the message - just like all your contributions here the last three or four years: you are wishing, longing, praying for it to fail. I don't know where this passion comes from, I don't know what feeds this obsession that drives you on and on, in post after post, in thread after thread - sometimes, like now, in multiple simultaneous threads - and even on other sites on the internet! It's a fascinating spectacle, and I can only wonder at how much bitterness is building as film makes a comeback amongst the art-photography crowd. When I read these long, impassioned anti-film diatribes (often accompanied by lame protestations of having used film so much in the past) I feel like I'm watching a slow-motion train-crash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 14, 2016 Share #87 Posted January 14, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here's some news for Alan to stress about…http://www.theverge.com/2016/1/13/10763952/gopro-lays-off-seven-percent-of-its-staff-warns-of-poor-sales GoPro still seems like a new concept and with ever more dash cams in cars etc. you'd think they'd be booming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted January 14, 2016 Share #88 Posted January 14, 2016 Yeah I didn't buy stock in GoPro either. There is even a cheap action cam bearing the Kodak licensed name now. GoPro is one trick pony so far although that trick is a good one and i think they have sold around 50 million cameras. (I used GP4 today on a multirotor but prefer the DJI Inspire and its camera now.) It is tough to stay innovative and competitive. Kodak once was a leader with that and had one of the 5 most valuable brand names in the world. DJI is doing some good innovative and marketing work. 60% of Apple's sales come from selling phones. Who is going to buy and use this Super 8 camera and for what purpose? Is anyone on this forum planning to buy one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 14, 2016 Share #89 Posted January 14, 2016 I'm not quite sure that fully digital GoPro is quite comparable to a Super8 hybrid system like Kodak's idea. (Which, Mani, I find hard to picture as a film comeback - I think there are far better examples around like the new 70 mm films coming out- this one appears to me to be doomed, doing more harm than good.) If we are being nostalgic about analog technology I have quite different wishes - the Kodachrome-Cibacrome process - why is it apparently so difficult to revive it in an evironment-friendly way? And what about Lambda printers? Why have they been discontinued? I reallly loved the output. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted January 15, 2016 Share #90 Posted January 15, 2016 At time 1:13 in the promo, he says, "... the business is in printing, much more than (digital, etc)." That is the same spiel given to develop the Advantix Preview which used a little digital tech, but hijacked the potential in order to support their conventional photo printing. In fact, the incoming CEO for Kodak promised to keep Kodak in their traditional photo printing business. Advantix Preview did not work out very well. It did not work then. How will it work today? And what is Kodak 'printing' with this technology? The film is likely to get tossed anyway because it is the very smallest part of the process, and very expensive as well. Kodak's CEO is referring to the fact that Kodak is no longer a photographic company but is a printing company and is reminding people that it still has its hands in some photographic products. He doesn't mean that there will be money made from printing the Super 8 in some way. I think Kodak Picture Kiosks are from Kodak Alaris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted January 15, 2016 Share #91 Posted January 15, 2016 I'm not quite sure that fully digital GoPro is quite comparable to a Super8 hybrid system like Kodak's idea. (Which, Mani, I find hard to picture as a film comeback - I think there are far better examples around like the new 70 mm films coming out- this one appears to me to be doomed, doing more harm than good.) If we are being nostalgic about analog technology I have quite different wishes - the Kodachrome-Cibacrome process - why is it apparently so difficult to revive it in an evironment-friendly way? And what about Lambda printers? Why have they been discontinued? I reallly loved the output. GoPro wanted to capitalize on content and become a media company. But they failed at this and have to rely on just one product now. The Kodachrome and Cibachrome processes are very complex. Kodachrome fell out of favor with pros who needed faster processing and push/pull so they went to E6. Ad shooters often used larger format transparencies. Lots of stock agencies preferred the punchy look of Velvia and encouraged many to use that. Consumers used less and less slide film over the years. Once scanning came in the kind of film used became less important. Even if they could be environmentally friendly I just don't see the market for either. BTW I did some of the early user testing of Cibachrome at RIT back in 1971. I also owned a custom Cibachrome printing business for quite a number of years. The biggest issue for me was that it was EXTREMELY contrasty and thus was very tough to hold highlights and shadow detail at the same time. It is so much easier making prints with an inkjet that I can't imagine ever using Cibachrome again. (And I was pretty good at it.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2016 Share #92 Posted January 15, 2016 Whatever - I really liked - and still like- the results I used to get with KC25 and Cibachrome - it was so much better than other processes, of the time, both positive and negative. But then, as an amateur, I could afford to spend an evening on a single print. I agree that a Lambda print is probably better. Inkjet - not fully convinced, although, I get some results that I am happy with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted January 15, 2016 Share #93 Posted January 15, 2016 I'm not quite sure that fully digital GoPro is quite comparable to a Super8 hybrid system like Kodak's idea. (Which, Mani, I find hard to picture as a film comeback - I think there are far better examples around like the new 70 mm films coming out- this one appears to me to be doomed, doing more harm than good.. I don't see this venture as a particularly strong product from Kodak for my uses either (or pretty much anyone else on this forum, tbh) - but it's caused a big stir amongst the young creatives I meet at Hyper Island, and the other day a colleague said that I "must be happy because Kodak has started making film again". He was hard to convince that they'd never stopped (kept insisting that they'd gone bankrupt a few years ago - like I wasn't aware of it) So it's useful in adding to the general positive buzz around film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted January 15, 2016 Share #94 Posted January 15, 2016 I don't see this venture as a particularly strong product from Kodak for my uses either (or pretty much anyone else on this forum, tbh) - but it's caused a big stir amongst the young creatives I meet at Hyper Island, and the other day a colleague said that I "must be happy because Kodak has started making film again". He was hard to convince that they'd never stopped (kept insisting that they'd gone bankrupt a few years ago - like I wasn't aware of it) So you won't be buying this camera and don't think anyone else on this forum will want one either. But it might appeal to those who are so ignorant that they didn't even know that Kodak was making film...let alone never stopped making Super 8. It will be interesting to see how many of them have a use for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2016 Share #95 Posted January 15, 2016 I don't see this venture as a particularly strong product from Kodak for my uses either (or pretty much anyone else on this forum, tbh) - but it's caused a big stir amongst the young creatives I meet at Hyper Island, and the other day a colleague said that I "must be happy because Kodak has started making film again". He was hard to convince that they'd never stopped (kept insisting that they'd gone bankrupt a few years ago - like I wasn't aware of it) So it's useful in adding to the general positive buzz around film. OK, as a marketing tool to raise awareness about Kodak's involvement in the film movie sector. Still, "young creatives" will be comparing the results from the medium to alternatives, digital and analog, when (and if) it comes to the market. I fear it may fall flat on its face in such comparisons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted January 15, 2016 Share #96 Posted January 15, 2016 Yeah I didn't buy stock in GoPro either. There is even a cheap action cam bearing the Kodak licensed name now. GoPro is one trick pony so far although that trick is a good one and i think they have sold around 50 million cameras. (I used GP4 today on a multirotor but prefer the DJI Inspire and its camera now.) It is tough to stay innovative and competitive. Kodak once was a leader with that and had one of the 5 most valuable brand names in the world. DJI is doing some good innovative and marketing work. 60% of Apple's sales come from selling phones. Who is going to buy and use this Super 8 camera and for what purpose? Is anyone on this forum planning to buy one? Do you really think that there are going to be many on this forum interested in buying the new Kodak camera? I find it interesting and it's something I'd certainly like to try out. Not sure if I'd buy one but it's a possibility. I am told Kodak are mostly aiming at the student film maker market. Now, I don't know much (anything) about that market but presumably Kodak know something. I also read elsewhere a comment that they rely on finding working old super8 cameras. It's worth remembering also that many Super8 cameras didn't record sound. Someone out there is buying Super8 film today - don't you think any of them might be at all interested in a new camera? Especially as it will be the only camera to buy new! I mentioned in one of my first comments that I could see this also appealing to some of the Vloggers out there - and since read a comment from Kodak saying the same. So there seems to be some potential markets for it at least. Maybe you're right though Alan, and it will be a massive flop. You can keep hoping, time will tell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted January 15, 2016 Share #97 Posted January 15, 2016 And what about Lambda printers? Why have they been discontinued? I reallly loved the output. It's a fair question (I believe that the Lightjet is also no longer manufactured). In the short to medium term there isn't a problem getting c-type prints – any decent pro lab/printer will still have and use a Lambda or Lightjet and, these being essentially industrial quality machines (costing £100,000+) still supported by the manufacturers, will be able to do so for many years – but it is a little troubling that Durst and Océ have called time on making them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted January 15, 2016 Share #98 Posted January 15, 2016 But it might appeal to those who are so ignorant that they didn't even know that Kodak was making film... Haha - I love the way you twist things around. But in any case, you'll be delighted to hear my colleague wouldn't ever be interested in buying any sort of film camera at all. He wouldn't even bother with a DSLR. But I was encouraged that even he had read about this news, and thought Kodak had made some sort of 'comeback'. OK, as a marketing tool to raise awareness about Kodak's involvement in the film movie sector. Still, "young creatives" will be comparing the results from the medium to alternatives, digital and analog, when (and if) it comes to the market. I fear it may fall flat on its face in such comparisons. Hmmmm Jaap, I fear you don't really 'get' what "young creatives" are trying to achieve these days, if you're thinking like this. Believe me, it's only old f@rts who spent a lifetime wrestling with the 'creative imperfections' of film who strive after the 'clinical perfection' of digital these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 15, 2016 Share #99 Posted January 15, 2016 It is not about clinical perfection. I was more thinking of the way I felt when I was using Super8 film and comparing it to 16 mm film or even standard 8 mm film. I felt it to be an inferior format back then, and even with the improvement of film over the years, still think it cannot cut it. Unless one wants to go "don't think, just shoot" route. I cannot imagine that is Kodak's intention (despite them coining the phrase). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted January 15, 2016 Share #100 Posted January 15, 2016 It's worth remembering also that many Super8 cameras didn't record sound. This camera only records sound in the sense that there is a separate recording device not timed to the film in any way. This is called "wild sound" and may be tough to sync. You could just as easily use any kind of sound recorder with another Super 8 camera. FWIW at one point Kodak evolved Super 8 by adding a magnetic sound track that was always in sync. But for whatever reason they dropped that and now they have regressed to a sound method that is a kludge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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