Leica S Buying advice….

[Guest]

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I went into the Leica Store in Washington DC this past week during a short visit to the city, I needed some M & Q "bits" but whilst there I looked at the new SL……….and rejected it's usefulness to me almost immediately primarily because of the EVF that although being told that it was the "best EVF ever out there" I found it distinctly lacking, as perhaps I do with all EVFs……..then I picked up an S and in seconds I was hooked. The viewfinder on that camera is truly a beautiful piece of work, ( like my R9 but even better still ), the camera too balanced very nicely, much better than the SL did for me.

So on the flight back to France I tried to make some sense of which S would best suit me and how to go about choosing and buying one, I thought I'd turn to those who have already gone down that path, hence this posting.

 

This is what I think I would like to have with a prospective S "kit"…….or rather what I do not need. I do not need to have video, wifi or gps capability, neither would I go for one of the S zooms they are too big and too heavy. "Live View", I'm not sure whether I'd wish to have that or not, it's not on my R9's and didn't miss it there, ( a joke, obviously ), and maybe the viewfinder on the S is too good not to use all the time?

 

I would like to be able to use some of my excellent Pentax 6/7 prime lenses though, perhaps some other makes of primes too, ( suggestions? ), and maybe one or two Leica S primes, ( 70mm, though it's a shade too long for me, I'd prefer something equivalent to a 28mm - 35mm on a FF M ).

 

And what are everyone's thoughts in regards to the comparison between the CCD and the CMOS sensors? I much prefer the CCD on my earlier Monochom model for instance than the newer CMOS model, and I also liked the colour science of the M9 despite it's other quirks, so here too I'd welcome real users opinions. 

 

I am a little confused in regards to the various present and past S models, reading Leica's website only added to that confusion, some real advice and opinions to help in a search from real users would be great .

I'd rather not buy new, even though there seems to be considerable warranty and service benefits, but from what I've seen on a cursory look around for used S's there's quite a price drop from new to used, so what do you think based on your experiences?

Thanks in advance for any real advice……….

[topoxforddoc]

Peter,

 

The big advantage for a stills photographer of the new 007 is the higher ISO abilities of the CMOS sensor. I have the 006 and love it. It's like a grown up DMR. However, the images are useable up to ISO800 and get pretty noisy at ISO1600. So in a way, not much different to the DMR, where I would shoot most of my concerts at ISO400 and occasionally at ISO800 if it's really dark. You can probably get another 2 stops out of the CMOS sensor with useable images up to ISO3200.

 

However, if you plan to use the S in a studio or on a tripod, then you probably won't care about the low light capabilities, as that's irrelevant. In which case, the best value would be a S(006), which comes with a 3 yr warranty. The SE came with only a 1 year warranty, if I'm correct. You may find a number of S(006) new bodies in close-out sales packaged with a 70/2.5S. They were being sold off in the UK for about GBP 7.5k as a package.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Charlie

[Guest]

Peter,

 

The big advantage for a stills photographer of the new 007 is the higher ISO abilities of the CMOS sensor. I have the 006 and love it. It's like a grown up DMR. However, the images are useable up to ISO800 and get pretty noisy at ISO1600. So in a way, not much different to the DMR, where I would shoot most of my concerts at ISO400 and occasionally at ISO800 if it's really dark. You can probably get another 2 stops out of the CMOS sensor with useable images up to ISO3200.

 

However, if you plan to use the S in a studio or on a tripod, then you probably won't care about the low light capabilities, as that's irrelevant. In which case, the best value would be a S(006), which comes with a 3 yr warranty. The SE came with only a 1 year warranty, if I'm correct. You may find a number of S(006) new bodies in close-out sales packaged with a 70/2.5S. They were being sold off in the UK for about GBP 7.5k as a package.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Charlie

 

 

Thanks Charlie, that's really useful to know about the ISO limits on the S, I have to admit that got by me reading the tech' on the cameras. I'd probably go for the CCD S, but the low ISO ceiling gives me a bit of hesitation. 

What do you know of the SE?

 

PS. An interesting Avitar you have. I used to own a Lotus 7, a little quicker I think than my present Renault 4L!

[Deliberate1]

Peter,

Two months ago I was where you are now. If you look a bit deeper into the recent archives, you'll see my various posts regarding a transition from the M9 to the S system as well as lens selection. The responses were powerfully helpful and ultimately led me to the purchase of an S 006 and 70 mm Summarit. And I could not be happier with my choice.

Much as I am fond of the M9 I shot for 4 years or so, the S system is truly a tour de force. It is technically more sophisticated in virtually every way than my M9. White balance is dead on with the automatic setting. With my M it was touch and go, and I would typically use a gray card. The S auto exposure does not seem at all affected by single point sources of light that throw it off, as I found with the M9. With the rangefinder I would typically take a test shot with the auto setting and move from there. In unique and fleeting circumstances, that technique did result in more than a few lost opportunities. Focusing with the two cameras is obvious. I got OK with the range-finder but not good enough to catch everything. I developed hyperfocal techniques that helped, but were still a source of angst. Also, I am a left eye shooter because it has perfect acuity, But it means my nose smudges against the screen with nasty effect. Conversely, when I look through the OVF on the S I have the impression that I'm looking up at a movie screen in a theater. Utterly brilliant. While I have read that the autofocus is not as fast as the most current DSLR's, I find it fast enough, though I've not shot in truly dynamic settings. But it appears to be dead on. I have enhanced this shooting experience by replacing the stock screen with the micro prism screen which has what I would describe as a conventional split image center. It is terrific for manual focusing. I've also set up my camera much as others have,reassigning the autofocus function away from the shutter to the rear toggle. In this way, you can manually focus and shoot instantly without the camera feeling the need to focus for you. Or you can engage the toggle button which will autofocus the camera and then fine-tuned manually to taste. This is a typical example of how logical and intuitive the shooting experience is with the S. I have also reprogrammed the top left button to immediately reach the ISO screen for quick changes. All in all, and while I have only had this camera for a matter for weeks, I'm getting a much higher number of technically acceptable images that I ever did with the M9. Again, no disrespect to the M9. The failings I experience with that camera are more likely my own.

Many decry the size of the S body and lenses. I have the 70 mm which may be the smallest among them. Frankly, I love the heft, feel, haptics and balance of the S body. I handheld shot for many years a Rollei 6008i with lenses of a similar size to the S system. However, that body was bigger and heavier. While the S is a big camera, relatively speaking, it does not feel that way. Rather like a big German touring sedan that surprises you with its nimbleness.

Like you, I love the CCD look, though I've never shot a CMOS camera, Leica or otherwise. If you like your M9 images, you will feel right at home with the S sensor. While doing my due diligence, several kind members on this board made plain that the S sensor size competes in a much higher weight class. Some even compared it to 4 x 5. I would've been satisfied with quality images that matched the 6 x 6 I got from chrome film with the Rollei. What I' have seen so far on my screen is extraordinary. Indeed, I would not dispute the claim that an image shot on a tripod with mirror lockup and in still conditions could not rival a 4 x 5 sheet. I have not yet printed any images but have high hopes. It is plain to me that I will be able to crop these images to get me to a square format which I dearly love.

Now for the money part. Not only did I study the technical and aesthetic qualities of this camera, I spent no small effort exploring the market dynamics of a camera, or perhaps brand, which is both a consumerable and a commodity. When I hold the S in my hand, it is difficult for me to fathom that this body, when first released, cost approximately $23,000. The 70 mm lens added about $5000 more. Two years ago, this camera was a pipe dream. But with the release of the 007, perfect examples of the 006 have driven prices to a much more attainable level. Even the new 007 was released costing approximate $6000 less than its predecessor. I purchased a certified 006 from Leica Miami for approximately $6500. It was indistinguishable from new and comes with the three-year warranty which even provides for a loner in the event of dysfunction. While I do not know for certain, I also suspect that a certified camera is readjusted and brought to factory specs in every respect. I think I got a new camera for about 25% of what it cost when new. If you look at current eBay offerings, you will see 006 bodies whose opening bids are less than $2000. Quite extraordinary. 

My 70 mm lens came from the Leica store in Soho. It was a "demo" model which means, as far as I know, that it may have been fondled heavily but respectfully, by the envious at photokina. I paid $3200 for this new lens with a one-year warranty. Again, there are offerings on eBay that are considerably cheaper. Simply put, if you are willing to take a bit of a risk, you should be able to put together a 006 and 70 mm on eBay for somewhere in the range of $5000 – $6000. That is less than what I paid for my M9 body 4 years ago.

All of this being said, I, like you, appreciate the low light limitations of this camera. I never shot my M9 with success over 640 ISO. I did use that underexposure technique with exposure boosting in postprocessing. It did work well but was more of a workaround than a direct solution. If you want to squeeze the most low light capacity you can from and S system, then your only choice is the 007. That was not a choice for me given the price differential to a certified 006 - and I am quite happy with the CCD output. And, quite frankly, with what I "saved," I could purchase a small mirrorless, high ISO camera that will likely work better than the S 007 in ultimate low light situations particularly that are dynamic. Remember, with the S, your best output will be from shutter speeds that are at least 2 times the length focal length. Many of us got good results, at least acceptable ones, shooting as low as at a 15th with a Summilux  50mm wide-open. That is not going to happen with the S, no matter the iteration. And, as you know, the depth of field is considerably narrower with this larger camera system which further limits its flexibility, it seems to me, in low light situations. At least that is what I am telling myself. I will, eventually, shoot some low light images using the same underexposure/re-exposure postprocessing technique. The files from the S are  so good and malleable, that I suspect they will easily tolerate a 2 stop push. And that is essentially what you are likely to get with the 007. If I'm wrong, I'm sure my friends here will call me on that.

Peter, I am very new to the system. But it has been an unmitigated joy working with it and getting acquainted. As is often the case, this camera is better than I am. But as I get better what I get from it will get better as well.

Hope this helps.

David

[Jeff S]

 

What do you know of the SE?

 

 

The S-E is an S006 with a different top plate and shutter dial finish.  It is less expensive, partly due to lesser warranty and Protection Plan, as well as a couple less free cables....extended warranty can be purchased.  In anticipation of the 007, Leica offered promos and the lesser priced model to clean out inventory.

 

So, basically, the recent S evolution went from S2 to S006 (to S-E option) to S007.  Only the 007 has LV and CMOS.  

 

BTW, if you're a Pentax user (as your lenses suggest), an alternative system to consider is the 645Z, which Michael R at LuLa loves...  

https://luminous-landscape.com/pentax-645z-in-depth-review/     The interface is diametrically opposed to the S system....a separate button or dial for everything....which some prefer. And the price is very low compared to new S prices.

 

Jeff

[Manolo Laguillo]

I have a S006, after a M8 (sold), a M9 (sold), a M240 (sold), and a MM-ccd (sold).

 

When I bought the S006 I stopped using the M240, because it became redundant. Finally I sold it, to partially finance a MM-cmos.

 

I jumped from the M240 to the S006 because of the experience of looking through this incredible viewfinder. The same happened to you in that Leica store...

 

The M240 delivers very nice files, they are perhaps indistinguishable from the S006 ones when printed at not too big sizes... but I needed, without being conscious, the shooting experience only the Leica S is able to give me.

 

I was missing this feeling, very similar to the one I had when I worked with a view camera, my regular tool for many decades.

 

The M experience is another story. I also need that, that's my reason for having a MM-cmos.

 

...

 

You are thrilled for now only by the handling and the optical viewfinder of the S... but wait to see the pictures, your jaw will drop to the floor.

 

The S006's files are 90% fine right out from the camera. Color, WB, smoothness, delicacy, plasticity, roundness, etc, are wonderful.

 

Detail is limitless.

 

I haven't worked with the S007, yet, I do know about the differences between it and the S006, but I don't feel the need to 'improve': the S006 is good enough for what I need.

 

...

 

I work with the Pentax 67 45mm (2nd version). It's a very nice lens, sharp, small and light. It's easy to focus with it. I use the Zörk tilt adapter. Leica and Metabones have adapters, but I don't know them.

The 70mm Summarit-S is awesome. I think it's a must have. But any S-lens will give you the highest possible quality, the 30-90 zoom included. Therefore buy whatever S-lens you find, it will be ok.

The limit is weight... and your wallet.

 

...

 

You won't regret buying a S006.

[hoppyman]

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I made about 15000 exposures with my S2 and am now about 2000 exposure in with the new Typ 007.
I think that the price and value for money decisions are personal but I can make comment on technical differences.
In my opinion your best two body options would be the Typ 006 or the Typ 007. The 006 represents quite a refinement over the S2 even though they appear similar of course. The 007 is really a big leap in capability with higher ISO performance and frame rate and liveview/video. GPS and WiFi of course. Much depends on what is most important to you of course. In studio and potentially controlled with a smart device/ tethered the 007 brings some real advantage.

The sensors certainly do render differently, at least using the default profiling in Lightroom. I'm just learning the new camera and in fact I might wish for a couple of menu functions options back that the S2 had (card usage/storage options) but that may be simply personal preference/firmware refinement as they move forward.

Note that I only shot a couple of hundred frames with a loan Typ 006 so here I am comparing the S2 and the Typ 007

anecdotally I am not noticing faster AF (in the way I use the cameras) comparing the last S2 firmware and the latest with Typ 007..
The buffer is much better if you are shooting a rapid sequence. I have not needed to wait, ever.

I  have never seen the very occasional lack of response on pressing shutter release that came up maybe every thousand frames or more with the S2

The accessory focus screens are interchangeable

The battery and multigrip are not interchangeable (higher rated battery)
battery life less but acceptable (500+ frames with capacity left at yesterdays shoot in studio). I saw 1100 once in a full day shooting on a single charge on the S2

It's stops better for ISO performance. I considered ISO 640 as my limit with the S2
 

[Guest]

Thank you everyone for all of your very helpful, thorough, and thoughtful responses to my post.

I am leaning towards the 006, primarily because of the CCD sensor but also the cost factor comes into it too. But to be honest the low "usable" ISO of the 006 is giving me some pause………I spoke to someone at a Leica dealership yesterday who uses an S 006 himself and he ideally sets his ISO to 100-200 ASA, never more than 640ASA because of the noise.

So I am going to spend a week or so doing some tests the "old fashioned way" by taking out the Pentax 67 and shooting some rolls of TriX at 400 ASA and 800 ASA to see if that level of sensitivity will work for what I'd like a S to do for me. As I would intend using the Pentax glass on any S I'd buy this could be a good comparative test for later too.

 

​Again thanks to all……..Peter

[topoxforddoc]

Peter,

 

Here's a concert shot from a couple of weeks ago using a S(006) with the 70 at ISO 800. I have not used any noise reduction in LR5.5 - whole image and centre crop. Not the world's greatest image, but hopefully a useful hint at the low light abilities at ISO 800.

 

Charlie

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[Justalex]

I shoot interiors and architecture commercially for a living. I recently purchased an extensive 007 kit and am blown away by the quality.

 

I was shooting with the A7RII between my Hasselblad dying and buying the 007. I though the A7RII had incredible file quality but it didnt feel like a professional camera to work with daily. 

 

When I got the 007 I shot the same scene at 100, 400, 1600 and 6400 ISO. Once I had downsized the 6400 file down to a double page spread size (approx 42cm x 30cm) and I don't think anyone viewing the printed double page spread could ever tell it was shot at 6400.

 

If dynamic range/latitude or being able to push files is important then my money is on the 007 hands down! If you cant afford the 007 then consider the Sony A7RII. I personally dislike it for professional work because it doesn't feel like a professional camera, but its small, light and will produce better quality file than the 006 when conditions aren't perfect.

 

Just my two cents worth...

[Guest]

 

If dynamic range/latitude or being able to push files is important then my money is on the 007 hands down! If you cant afford the 007 then consider the Sony A7RII. I personally dislike it for professional work because it doesn't feel like a professional camera, but its small, light and will produce better quality file than the 006 when conditions aren't perfect.

 

Just my two cents worth...

Thanks Justalex,

 

I am familiar with the A7RII, we recently used one as a back-up / b-roll camera on a TV production. I have to say I didn't like it at all. An EVF, ( which something that I am trying to get away from in terms of camera choice ), too fiddly in operation and menus from hell. Results are good though, but at the end of the day you have to be happy with how a camera handles.

[Justalex]

Thanks Justalex,

 

I am familiar with the A7RII, we recently used one as a back-up / b-roll camera on a TV production. I have to say I didn't like it at all. An EVF, ( which something that I am trying to get away from in terms of camera choice ), too fiddly in operation and menus from hell. Results are good though, but at the end of the day you have to be happy with how a camera handles.

 

I did an edit on my post but it doesn't appear to have save. This is what it said....

 

If dynamic range/latitude or being able to push files is important then my money is on the 007 hands down! If you cant afford the 007 then consider the Sony A7RII. I personally dislike it for professional work because it doesn't feel like a professional camera, but its small, light and will produce better quality file than the 006 when conditions aren't perfect. Nikon D810. I only used the Sony A7RII because I needed to Canon TSE lenses. If it wasn't for that I would have chosen the Nikon. Put some Milvus or Otus lenses on it and you can approach 80% of the Leica quality for 1/2 the price. I believe this is a fair trade-off if budget is a consideration.

 

I shoot for a living and my requirements are probably different from yours. I went all in and leased $88,000 of equipment because it generates me an income and I can tax deduct it. I have heard of amateurs with even greater budgets but not sure where you fall in the spectrum.

 

Regarding the CCD v CMOS question, I think the difference is minimal/indistinguisbale if your learn how to sharpen your CMOS files properly. In my experience there still remains a per pixel sharpness advantage with CCD but this becomes a non issue when you consider the benefits of CMOS. Regarding the colour difference, this also becomes less of a problem if you profile your camera with the simple X Rite colour passport.

 

For me the benefits far outweigh the downsides and I can say the 007 has given me a passion for photography that I've not felt in the last 10 years of my career. And for a professional photographer that has a SIGNIFICANT value! If I couldn't afford the 007 it would have been a tough call between the 006 and Nikon D810... When conditions are good the 006 produces stellar performance, but when not good it requires a bracket and some work in post. When conditions are good I think the D810 is close but not as good, but when conditions are bad I think you spend SIGNIFICANTLY less time in post production. How valuable is your time?

 

Personally it's a decision that took me 6 months to make and I don't envy anyone else sitting on the fence! if you can get a 006 for the crazy prices I've been seeing it might be worth getting and then moving up to the 007 when funds permit. I had considered this option but decided to take an all or nothing approach. I needed to give my career a kick in the derrier and nothing does that more than having to meet lease repayments! LOL

[ynp]

I shoot interiors and architecture commercially for a living. I recently purchased an extensive 007 kit and am blown away by the quality.

 

I was shooting with the A7RII between my Hasselblad dying and buying the 007. I though the A7RII had incredible file quality but it didnt feel like a professional camera to work with daily.

...

Thank you very much for your post. Very interesting perspective from a pro.

 

I wonder if the lack of the tilt and shift lenses for the 007 limits you as an architecture shooter?

[Guest]

I did an edit on my post but it doesn't appear to have save. This is what it said....

 

If dynamic range/latitude or being able to push files is important then my money is on the 007 hands down! If you cant afford the 007 then consider the Sony A7RII. I personally dislike it for professional work because it doesn't feel like a professional camera, but its small, light and will produce better quality file than the 006 when conditions aren't perfect. Nikon D810. I only used the Sony A7RII because I needed to Canon TSE lenses. If it wasn't for that I would have chosen the Nikon. Put some Milvus or Otus lenses on it and you can approach 80% of the Leica quality for 1/2 the price. I believe this is a fair trade-off if budget is a consideration.

 

I shoot for a living and my requirements are probably different from yours. I went all in and leased $88,000 of equipment because it generates me an income and I can tax deduct it. I have heard of amateurs with even greater budgets but not sure where you fall in the spectrum.

 

Regarding the CCD v CMOS question, I think the difference is minimal/indistinguisbale if your learn how to sharpen your CMOS files properly. In my experience there still remains a per pixel sharpness advantage with CCD but this becomes a non issue when you consider the benefits of CMOS. Regarding the colour difference, this also becomes less of a problem if you profile your camera with the simple X Rite colour passport.

 

For me the benefits far outweigh the downsides and I can say the 007 has given me a passion for photography that I've not felt in the last 10 years of my career. And for a professional photographer that has a SIGNIFICANT value! If I couldn't afford the 007 it would have been a tough call between the 006 and Nikon D810... When conditions are good the 006 produces stellar performance, but when not good it requires a bracket and some work in post. When conditions are good I think the D810 is close but not as good, but when conditions are bad I think you spend SIGNIFICANTLY less time in post production. How valuable is your time?

 

Personally it's a decision that took me 6 months to make and I don't envy anyone else sitting on the fence! if you can get a 006 for the crazy prices I've been seeing it might be worth getting and then moving up to the 007 when funds permit. I had considered this option but decided to take an all or nothing approach. I needed to give me career a kick in the derrier and nothing does that more than having to meet lease repayments! LOL

 

Hello again Justalex, and I am happy you made the correction from the Sony to the Nikon, I have to admit the original post when you favoured the A7RII as a "second best" choice had me puzzled. The Nikon D810 makes so much more sense.

 

All camera purchase decisions are hard when making images happens to be your profession and passion too, I know, I've worked this game in one form or another for around five decades, starting in stills now primarily in the movie making side of things and trying to figure out what to invest in as "tools" and what to pay can be a hard choice. I've spent 25% more than you did on your S kit on one cine zoom lens kit, that was tough, but eventually it panned out I'm more than happy to say. Generally you find the best advice and opinions that you can, then follow your gut.

 

For me it took just one two second look through the S's finder when I was in the DC Store last week and I knew that an S in one form or other would be my next still camera purchase, at last here is a "real" still camera again from Leica and I knew right off that the S ticked all the boxes…..

However as I now make most of my living on the movie side of things the purchase has to be a sensible one that's why I'm listening to all of you that have taken this plunge, then I'll figure out my route. But it'll happen.

[Justalex]

Thank you very much for your post. Very interesting perspective from a pro.

 

I wonder if the lack of the tilt and shift lenses for the 007 limits you as an architecture shooter?

 

 

I did a test with the H5D50 CMOS and HTS tilt shift adapter 2 weeks ago. After the 1.5x crop of the HTS and 1.3x crop of the CMOS I no longer had a true wide angle lens. I just reshoot the same scene yesterday with the 007 and 30mm lens and even after correcting the uprights in photoshop it was much nicer file.

 

I shot for 10 years using a H3DII 22 without the HTS. I did all my corrections in Photoshop and I was published monthly in numerous interior and architecture magazines. I never received a single comment.

 

At the end of the day we can become a little too obsessed with the right methodology for taking pictures but one thing I learnt as an assistant that has stayed with me is this.... "We aren't saving lives people!"

 

Buy what you can afford, what pleases you and what gets the job done. If no one ever notices or comments then it doesn't matter how you got there!

 

This test wasn't very scientific and was done a week apart, but the 30mm on the 007 trounces the 28mm on HTS on H5D50CMOS. Overall the 007 is sharper but take particular note of the no stopping sign on the bottom left of the image. The 007 is PIN sharp whereas the H5D50CMOS is unsharp and smeared. The H5D also as CA/Fringing on the top balustrade whereas the 007 is clean.

 

 

[Justalex]

Hello again Justalex, and I am happy you made the correction from the Sony to the Nikon, I have to admit the original post when you favoured the A7RII as a "second best" choice had me puzzled. The Nikon D810 makes so much more sense.

 

All camera purchase decisions are hard when making images happens to be your profession and passion too, I know, I've worked this game in one form or another for around five decades, starting in stills now primarily in the movie making side of things and trying to figure out what to invest in as "tools" and what to pay can be a hard choice. I've spent 25% more than you did on your S kit on one cine zoom lens kit, that was tough, but eventually it panned out I'm more than happy to say. Generally you find the best advice and opinions that you can, then follow your gut.

 

For me it took just one two second look through the S's finder when I was in the DC Store last week and I knew that an S in one form or other would be my next still camera purchase, at last here is a "real" still camera again from Leica and I knew right off that the S ticked all the boxes…..

However as I now make most of my living on the movie side of things the purchase has to be a sensible one that's why I'm listening to all of you that have taken this plunge, then I'll figure out my route. But it'll happen.

 

I also fell in love with the S the moment I used it, but the D810 with Otus lenses at $25,000 was tempting in comparison to the S at $88,000!

 

Regarding the A7RII... I cant imagine why ANYONE would want an EVF. I've looked at the SL and despite it being the best EVF currently available is still a very poor comparison for viewing the world in Technicolor and the EXTRA - High Def of any optical viewfinder let alone the S viewfinder!

[DucatiTerminator]

Hi Peter,

 

I don't know if this will allow any clarity or confusion to your decision making process, but I hope it's the former:

 

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/leica/56397-s006-s007-iso-performance.html

 

Personally, I've never owned a CCD sensor-based camera, however, in the limited comparisons I've made of CCD vs. CMOS, I tend to be drawn towards images shot on CCD. For that reason, I'm leaning towards a S006. While I'm sure I would find the couple of extras stops of usable ISO convenient, I tend not to shoot above base ISO for anything important/commercial. The price difference between the S006 and S007 will allow me to get an additional lens or two without feeling the pinch as much, and if I find that I can't live without the S007 at some point if my needs change, I will add or replace as necessary, funds permitting.

 

Alvin

[Guest]

A sort of a follow-up question….

Does anyone on  the forum use Pentax 67 lenses on their S?

I have quite a few of them and the possibility / feasibility of their use on the system would play into whether or not I decide to get an S of one flavour or another.

Also what's the crop factor with using the 67 lenses because they obviously are built to cover an area quite a bit larger than the S's sensor?

 

[siddhaarta]

I don't have used any personally and would like to hear from others. Here is a report on the reddotforum about one lens which you may already know: 

 

http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2011/08/testing-the-pentax-105mm-f-2-4-vs-the-leica-120mm-f-2-5-apo-on-the-leica-s2/

 

As regards crop factor: square root of 56x68mm (6x7) = 61,7; square root of 30x45mm (S) = 36,74; square root of 24x36mm (FF) = 29,39. So the crop factor would be ca. 0,6 compared to field of view of Leica S and ca. 0,48 compared to field of view of FF. Meaning a 105mm Pentax used on a Pentax 6x7 equals a field of view of a 50mm focal length on a FF camera.

 

But because you will use a Pentax lens on a Leica S sensor, what counts is the known 0,8 crop factor (field of view in terms of FF on Leica S cameras). So, e.g. a 105mm 6x7 Pentax used on Leica S equals a field of view of 84mm (in terms of FF).

 

Or, to put it another way, in terms of field of view, it doesn't matter if you use a SMC Pentax 6x7 45mm or a Leica S Elmarit 45mm on your S. It will be the same. The bigger image circle of the Pentax lens simply will not be used.

 

Hope this helps.

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Hallo,

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[Dougg]

I have 16 P67 lenses, but have not used all of them on my S2. I would say in general the newer ones are superior to the older ones, optically. So I have concentrated on using newer lenses, and most recently tried the 75mm f/2.8 asph, which turned out to be as lovely a lens on the S2 as on the Pentax.

 

The adapter is not inexpensive, so there's a bit of commitment just in setting up to try the P67 lenses. My adapter is a back-shed production from Korea, acquired before the official Leica adapter became available, but it still wasn't cheap. The front half is actually a Pentax67 extension tube! It's a bit awkward not to have auto-diaphragm control, but these lenses do all have external lock-open/stop-down levers, leaving only the likelihood of forgetting to use it...

 

When shopping for the Leica 100mm Summicron-S, I spent months using the Pentax 105, 90, 55-100zoom, and 100mm f/4 Macro to see how useful that focal length would be for my use. These are all fine lenses, especially the 100 Macro, but of course there's no AF or auto stop-down so the Summicron is more convenient as well as a stop or two faster. I use it a lot. The Pentax 35mm is a fish-eye, so I went with Leica there too. Still, the Pentax 45, 55, and 165 get some use as suited to the occasion, and I have 200 and 300 also should the need arise.

 

All in all, having the Pentax lenses freed me any urgency in filling out the Leica range, and add flexibility especially with less-used focal lengths, macro, etc.

 

Edit: I should add that the Leica S body's focus confirmation light is still operational with the Pentax67 lenses, for a good additional guide.

 

S2 with Pentax 165mm f/2.8