helged Posted February 22, 2016 Share #81 Posted February 22, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) It my be worth it to try a Novoflex LEM/LER. I found on the M240 that it does not vignette. The SL should be the same, geometrically speaking. Regarding APO 280 f4 and adapters, a few tests are reported a little up in this thread. And yes, the Novoflex LEM/LER adapter works fine with the 280 APO. Importantly - and irrespective of the adapter used - with the current firmware, the lens profile for 280APO should not be activated (which is ok when you know/remember this, but a pain if you/when you forget it ). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Hi helged, Take a look here R-M-L Adapters stacked. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted February 22, 2016 Share #82 Posted February 22, 2016 Not the very same engineers, I agree (or assume). But the resource allocation (FTE) to a problem has something to do with this.No - different departments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share #83 Posted February 22, 2016 Regarding APO 280 f4 and adapters, a few tests are reported a little up in this thread. And yes, the Novoflex LEM/LER adapter works fine with the 280 APO. Importantly - and irrespective of the adapter used - with the current firmware, the lens profile for 280APO should not be activated (which is ok when you know/remember this, but a pain if you/when you forget it ). I have found that the Novoflex adapter works just fine. As I have only one R lens (the APO-Elmarit-R 180/2.8, version 1) and the 2x APO-Extender, I'm not sure that I need either the Leica R-M adapter, or the yet to be released Leica R-L adapter, save for recording the lens in the EXIF data. The SL simply needs to know that I have an R lens attached, and it will assume that I am using the same lens as the last time I mounted the R adapter. So, unless the ROM chip contains more information than the coding in the SL for the R lens, I gain nothing really from having a coded or smart adapter. The only thing I need to be able to do is to code the Novoflex so the SL brings up the R lens menu. Has anyone done this? The coding seems to be 3 blacks, white, 2 blacks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 22, 2016 Share #84 Posted February 22, 2016 If you look at my note a page or so ago, I suggest alternate profiles for each of the affected lenses. (except for the APO 280/4 you can select 280/2.8 and for the 180/2.8 call it a 180/2.0) That way there is some information in the EXIF field and some distortion correction in the DNG. The alternate profiles that I suggest don;t seem to have any edge lightening or "smoke rings". Of course, just using "no profile" is even simpler. Responding to IkarusJohn -- I had John Milich cut the six recesses in my Novoflex a while back and painted it as you say (using Goth nail polish!). It works fine. For the 180, however, I use my Leica R to M adapter, since it has a tripod foot and things balance better. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted February 22, 2016 Share #85 Posted February 22, 2016 Regarding APO 280 f4 and adapters, a few tests are reported a little up in this thread. And yes, the Novoflex LEM/LER adapter works fine with the 280 APO. Importantly - and irrespective of the adapter used - with the current firmware, the lens profile for 280APO should not be activated (which is ok when you know/remember this, but a pain if you/when you forget it ). Thanks, let me try again by not activating the lens code when using the Leica adapter. I thought I had done that but Lightroom is telling me all were coded. The small vignetting you show in your post with the Leica adapter and no code is similar to what I see when I use the stacked L adapters on the M with the 280. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share #86 Posted February 22, 2016 Responding to IkarusJohn -- I had John Milich cut the six recesses in my Novoflex a while back and painted it as you say (using Goth nail polish!). It works fine. For the 180, however, I use my Leica R to M adapter, since it has a tripod foot and things balance better. Sadly, I don't have a John Milich nearby ... I agree about the tripod mount, and I will certainly use the Leica adapter for that; but handheld, the Novoflex adapter is just fine. Does anyone know if there is more information in the ROM chip in the lens than there is if you code the lens in camera, or in LightRoom? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 23, 2016 Share #87 Posted February 23, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is another big disappointment of the SL. I would add that it also badly affects wake from sleep. Another disappointment - that sounds like a spoilt child ;-) I do not know what I do wrong, but with my camera and cards I do not have this wake-up problem. And generally I am anything but disappointed with the SL. On the contrary, it is the first "Lichtblick" since many years coming from this direction. The first "gleam of hope" or "bright spot" as the dictionary tells me. Stephan P.S. to all disappointed people, please sell your SL, there are others waiting for it. The sooner the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talt03 Posted February 23, 2016 Share #88 Posted February 23, 2016 Are these disappointed comments coming from SL owners or simply responses to detailed issues raised by some? Seems like the latter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted February 23, 2016 Share #89 Posted February 23, 2016 Another disappointment - that sounds like a spoilt child ;-) I do not know what I do wrong, but with my camera and cards I do not have this wake-up problem. And generally I am anything but disappointed with the SL. On the contrary, it is the first "Lichtblick" since many years coming from this direction. The first "gleam of hope" or "bright spot" as the dictionary tells me. Stephan P.S. to all disappointed people, please sell your SL, there are others waiting for it. The sooner the better. Not related to topic: Guys, you are really giving me a hard time. Necessary? - The SL is in my opinion a great camera. But I have two big disappointments with it: wake from sleep and performance of my R lens. Otherwise I have listed in a separate topic factually a few wishes for a firmware update. I think there is no disconnect between being disappointed (if you had missed a nice shot because it took a few seconds for this otherwise great camera to wake up you would be too) with a few features but on balance being happy with the purchase. I think it is totally legitimate, and human. - Back to the topic: Novoflex has an L to R adapter I just found out. I shall try with the 280 as soon as it arrives and report back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 23, 2016 Share #90 Posted February 23, 2016 Not related to topic: Guys, you are really giving me a hard time. Necessary? - The SL is in my opinion a great camera. But I have two big disappointments with it: wake from sleep and performance of my R lens. Otherwise I have listed in a separate topic factually a few wishes for a firmware update. I think there is no disconnect between being disappointed (if you had missed a nice shot because it took a few seconds for this otherwise great camera to wake up you would be too) with a few features but on balance being happy with the purchase. I think it is totally legitimate, and human. - Back to the topic: Novoflex has an L to R adapter I just found out. I shall try with the 280 as soon as it arrives and report back. The wake up and sleep issue seems only to be a feature of adapter use ...... and some have reported that the latest T to M adapter doesn't seem to cause any delay. With properly formatted cards and any of the T/SL dedicated lenses this is <1sec from switch-on to photo taking Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 23, 2016 Share #91 Posted February 23, 2016 The wake up and sleep issue seems only to be a feature of adapter use ...... and some have reported that the latest T to M adapter doesn't seem to cause any delay. With properly formatted cards and any of the T/SL dedicated lenses this is <1sec from switch-on to photo taking I haven't seen those reports. I just made a quick check, and the wake up times with an R lens and with an M lens were the same, about 5 sec. The GPS startup seems to be in the path. This meaurement was after I had been shooting outside an hour before. I've seen 20-30 second wakeups when the GPS was uncertain, and the camera had been off overnight. And I have two 64 GB UHC 3 chips inside. The LCD comes up much faster than that, but I can't shoot until the EVF wakes up, and that can take much longer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted February 23, 2016 Share #92 Posted February 23, 2016 I haven't seen those reports. I just made a quick check, and the wake up times with an R lens and with an M lens were the same, about 5 sec. The GPS startup seems to be in the path. This meaurement was after I had been shooting outside an hour before. I've seen 20-30 second wakeups when the GPS was uncertain, and the camera had been off overnight. And I have two 64 GB UHC 3 chips inside. The LCD comes up much faster than that, but I can't shoot until the EVF wakes up, and that can take much longer. This is what I have observed with my camera: My SL wears the R Adapter M + M Adapter T stack 99% of the time. I've never seen a wake-up take longer than 5-6 seconds, with either my Sandisk Extreme Pro 64G (95mbps) cards or my Lexar 128G (150 mbps, whatever the spiffy new hw protocol is called) card. And that's with either 1 or 2 cards in the slots, with GPS on all the time, and with the cards either empty or full or at any state in-between. The GPS sometimes doesn't lock up with a satellite, depending on whether i'm in a building or not, but the camera is always ready to shoot in less than 6 seconds. When I fit the 24-90, SL wake up takes less than 2 seconds, every time and regardless of card or GPS configuration. (Personally, I feel that using emotionally charged expressions like "another big disappointment" gets in the way of communicating information objectively. MRJohn and I have discussed this in private messages already.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted February 24, 2016 Share #93 Posted February 24, 2016 Checked with M lens and T/M adapter using an online stopwatch (switch on at fixed point on clock with shutter depressed and photo shows time elapsed) ......... consistently 3.5 secs from switch on or wake-up from sleep. R lenses with T/M/R stacked exactly the same. Start-up ..... checked again with the 24-90 is a shade over 1 sec (faster with a freshly formatted empty card) Full Format with SD-Formatter and re-format (quick) in SD-Formatter when card is full rather than deleting images or formatting in camera......Sandisk extreme pro 280mb/s U3 16gb cards. These odd variations show up with ALL Leica digital cameras and different cards/formatting and are often inexplicable..... and unless you have EXACTLY the same set up as others it is impossible to say if you have a dunce of a camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted February 24, 2016 Share #94 Posted February 24, 2016 I filled two SanDisk 32GB UHS-1 U3 C10 cards and am now working my way through a pair of Lexar 64 GB "1000x" cards, UHS-II (extra row of contacts) also rated U2 C10, but claiming 150 MB/sec speed. I see occasional >5 sec startups, and I think it is associated with having been powered off for an hour or more. I also think that it has occurred with both types of card. Once everything is warmed up, startup time is reasonable, though not instant. I will try to be more observant for the exceptions. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted February 24, 2016 Share #95 Posted February 24, 2016 Checked with M lens and T/M adapter using an online stopwatch (switch on at fixed point on clock with shutter depressed and photo shows time elapsed) ......... consistently 3.5 secs from switch on or wake-up from sleep. R lenses with T/M/R stacked exactly the same. Start-up ..... checked again with the 24-90 is a shade over 1 sec (faster with a freshly formatted empty card) Full Format with SD-Formatter and re-format (quick) in SD-Formatter when card is full rather than deleting images or formatting in camera......Sandisk extreme pro 280mb/s U3 16gb cards. These odd variations show up with ALL Leica digital cameras and different cards/formatting and are often inexplicable..... and unless you have EXACTLY the same set up as others it is impossible to say if you have a dunce of a camera. Your timings are consistent with mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 24, 2016 Share #96 Posted February 24, 2016 I always have an R-lens on the SL with the stacked Leica adapters. GPS is turned off. I usually have a "fast" Lexar 1000x 64GB UHS-II for 50 dollars in slot 1, nothing else. Result: half a second (definitely less than a second) I added a second "slow" Kingston 128GB UHS-I for 40 dollars in slot 2 (card currently empty). Result: 2.5 seconds Took out the second card, start-up as before (< 1s). So if speed is important, use only one slot. Stephan P.S. : The cards were new and empty and have never been written/formatted/deleted on a pc or mac and never used on a different camera. I do not know if this does matter or not. On the first card are currently only 200-300 images. I always try to keep the number limited. From the IT world I know that an almost full medium is often much slower than a medium used by only a small percentage, (20-30 percent ?!). A camera is a computer and uses a filesystem ... I have no proof, but it is my experience since 25 years. P.S. 2: I tested also with an M-lens, Elmarit-M 28, with Leica adapter. The wake-up times are (exactly) the same as above. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 24, 2016 Share #97 Posted February 24, 2016 I would like to know how the start-up times are with a a Leica T. The camera has internal storage, so it can even work without a SD card. Is it faster ? If yes, (and I actually wondered already last autumn why Leica did not add this to the SL, too) then Leica should add this feature to a future version of the SL. Stephan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted February 24, 2016 Share #98 Posted February 24, 2016 I haven't seen those reports. I just made a quick check, and the wake up times with an R lens and with an M lens were the same, about 5 sec. The GPS startup seems to be in the path. This meaurement was after I had been shooting outside an hour before. I've seen 20-30 second wakeups when the GPS was uncertain, and the camera had been off overnight. And I have two 64 GB UHC 3 chips inside. The LCD comes up much faster than that, but I can't shoot until the EVF wakes up, and that can take much longer. I have disabled GPS as I usually do not need it and see those 2-5 seconds others have observed when using two cards. Perhaps I go back to one card but hope Leica can address this. - For the GPS-related extended lag time they might be able to design a selectable priority mode, i.e. faster wake from sleep at the expense of perhaps not having a GPS reading yet (they could even indicate in the EVF once they locked a GPS signal). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 25, 2016 Share #99 Posted February 25, 2016 Additional info about the SD card speed declaration: (Do not want to insult anybody, Just make sure that all have the same information). Do not mix it up! Roman numbers mean different things than decimal numbers. UHS-I and UHS-II refer to the bus speed: UHS-I = 104 MByte/s ; UHS-II = 312 MByte/s UHS-1 and UHS-3 refer to minimal write speed: UHS-1 = 10 MByte/s ; UHS-3 = 30 MByte/s (important for 4k video) Furthermore there are the older speed classes 2, 4, 6 and 10 for data transfer in the non-UHS mode. Beware: Once the maxima are declared, and once the minima. The bus speed is sort of the maximum speed (for read and write), the actual speed is of course smaller. Probably even much slower. UHS-1 and UHS-3 are the guaranteed minimal write speed. UHS-1 offers constant 10 MBytes/s (at least, maybe more, good enough for video). UHS-3 means at least 30 MBytes/s write speed which is enough for writing 4k video. UHS-II cards have twice the number of contacts - which is part of the reason for the triple speed bus. In the SL only the upper slot (number 1) is UHS-II . All this is just for standards, it is not enough to know the exact speed of the card. You need to read the details on the flyer or the "blister" the card comes in. Additionally, read and write speed are never equal, so read carefully. And when you compare cards you should also write down these details. Every supplier has a lot of different cards at completely different speed levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steppenw0lf Posted February 25, 2016 Share #100 Posted February 25, 2016 Here an example of a card and its speed: Lexar 1000x 64GB UHS-II (which is called a professional card , you remember the discussions !) What we as SL users are interested in is the write speed in UHS mode, which is always much lower than the max. read speed. For start-up, which is reading the directory structure, a high read speed is useful, but actually it should be mentioned in numbers of transactions, because for reading the file structures several small transactions are needed. So the number 10 in a circle is not interesting because it refers to non-UHS mode, this is only interesting for users of older equipment. The U3 or rather UHS-3 is also not interesting (for Photographers), because this is for 4k video. It means at least 30 MByte/s write speed which is slightly useful as a minimum. I checked several sites but always found that Lexar - which I often use - are only telling the read-speed which is actually almost useless for us. And that they are not telling the write speed - what a shame. For a Lexar 1000x 64GB UHS-II they say read speed of 150 MByte/s (which is a maximum that cannot be held for any time longer than a few seconds.) And the write-speed is not mentioned. This means it could be anywhere from 60 MByte/s to 90 or maybe even 120 MByte/s. It is completely unclear. And don't be naive and think that it could mean that the write speed is identical - definitely not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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