wlaidlaw Posted November 9, 2015 Share #41 Posted November 9, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jonathan, If you cast your mind back, do you remember the row on the M8, when there was no manual lens selection menu item or even focal length menu for non-coded or non-Leica lenses? Many were saying that it was a cynical move by Leica to force folks to buy new coded Leica lenses. I was somewhat facetiously ascribing the same motive for not putting a manually selectable R menu on the SL. Given that I would guess the great majority of folks buying the SL will also buy an M to T/L adapter, it is a bit of a non-issue. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 9, 2015 Posted November 9, 2015 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here Leica R and M lenses on the Leica SL (Typ 601). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wildlightphoto Posted November 9, 2015 Share #42 Posted November 9, 2015 Doug, can you expound on this? What problem does the long-focus cause? The exit pupil of long-focus lenses is far enough away from the image plane that the light path is essentially perpendicular to the sensor over the entire image area. The M mount's small diameter blocks the light path in the corners, film or digital. This is less a problem with lenses having a shorter exit pupil distance, but as has been much discussed here and on other forums if the exit pupil is too close to the sensor the light path deviates too far from perpendicular in the outer areas for the sensor's light-sensetive wells. Bottom line is the M mount's engineering challenges are eliminated with a larger diameter lens mount. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LocalHero1953 Posted November 9, 2015 Share #43 Posted November 9, 2015 Yep. I have R-M and M-L adapters on order with my SL and R 80-200. I'm trying to tell myself I have no need for the SL 24-90: the range is covered by my M lenses, I don't need AF (but think of the weatherproofing, the IS, the single lens walkabout option etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted November 9, 2015 Share #44 Posted November 9, 2015 Correct me if I am wrong but when focusing stopped down, does not the DOF go up hand in hand with the decrease in the ability to focus accurately? In other words, when stopped down, it is more difficult to determine the absolute most accurate focus point and most folks find the point at near and far where the image is obviously out of focus and then set the focus point in the middle. However when stopped down, accurate focus is less important due to the increased DOF, eventually to the point where, particularly on very wide angle lenses, you can just leave the focus ring at the hyperfocal distance and forget about focusing altogether. I thought that prime purpose of auto stop down on optical VF SLR's was for the purposes of having a brighter image, rather than focus accuracy. On an EVF, the screen can automatically compensate for the decrease in brightness. I don't know if the SL continues with the very useful exposure preview on live view of the M240 - I hope so. Wilson For myself the problem focussing at working aperture isn't accuracy, it's speed + accuracy. I can focus the EVF of the a7II accurately but it takes longer to focus accurately at working aperture because the 'almost focussed' zone is deeper. No matter what the DOF is I want critical focus on the animal's eye. Increased DOF doesn't result in a broader range of critical focus, it results in a broader range of acceptable focus at an assumed magnification and print viewing distance. At greater magnification such as when I crop the image or with viewfinder magnification the range of acceptable focus decreases but the plane of critical focus doesn't change. No matter how much I magnify (or crop) I want critical focus on the animal's eye. This was all covered in high school photography class and hasn't changed one iota over the last 50 years. Basic optics. Viewfinder magnification solves the accuracy problem but it's rarely practical with a moving animal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 9, 2015 Share #45 Posted November 9, 2015 No matter what the DOF is I want critical focus on the animal's eye. Increased DOF doesn't result in a broader range of critical focus, it results in a broader range of acceptable focus at an assumed magnification and print viewing distance. At greater magnification such as when I crop the image or with viewfinder magnification the range of acceptable focus decreases but the plane of critical focus doesn't change. No matter how much I magnify (or crop) I want critical focus on the animal's eye. This was all covered in high school photography class and hasn't changed one iota over the last 50 years. Basic optics. Viewfinder magnification solves the accuracy problem but it's rarely practical with a moving animal. HI There Doug I hope you're well. This is a great explanation, and I completely sympathise . . . and yes - I really think it would be good if Leica produced an AASD adapter for the SL (perhaps they will, I really don't know). BUT I think that your case is rather a special one (not by any means unique, but special). For general photography it's very often better to be able to visualise the actual depth of field (hence the stop down button), and as Wilson so well explained, as you stop down the 'critical focus' point becomes less critical and the acceptable focus area is larger . . . to the extent that I've seen people complaining that they can't easily focus a 21mm at f8 on an EVF . . . when of course (again as Wilson points out) it's really not an issue. So it seems to me that for many (perhaps even most) situations, it's very viable to focus an M or R lens on the SL with lens stopped down to the working aperture (ie without AASD). You can of course zoom in, or use focus peaking, but personally I've just found that with practice I can focus very well on a good EVF (and the SL certainly has a good EVF) - this wasn't the same at all on an SLR, because the viewfinder quickly becomes too dark. Also worth bearing in mind with M lenses that many of them exhibit focus shift (sometimes quite badly) so that focusing wide open and stopping down is not a great idea! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted November 9, 2015 Share #46 Posted November 9, 2015 HI There Doug I hope you're well. This is a great explanation, and I completely sympathise . . . and yes - I really think it would be good if Leica produced an AASD adapter for the SL (perhaps they will, I really don't know). BUT I think that your case is rather a special one (not by any means unique, but special). For general photography it's very often better to be able to visualise the actual depth of field (hence the stop down button), and as Wilson so well explained, as you stop down the 'critical focus' point becomes less critical and the acceptable focus area is larger . . . to the extent that I've seen people complaining that they can't easily focus a 21mm at f8 on an EVF . . . when of course (again as Wilson points out) it's really not an issue. So it seems to me that for many (perhaps even most) situations, it's very viable to focus an M or R lens on the SL with lens stopped down to the working aperture (ie without AASD). You can of course zoom in, or use focus peaking, but personally I've just found that with practice I can focus very well on a good EVF (and the SL certainly has a good EVF) - this wasn't the same at all on an SLR, because the viewfinder quickly becomes too dark. Also worth bearing in mind with M lenses that many of them exhibit focus shift (sometimes quite badly) so that focusing wide open and stopping down is not a great idea! Agreed on all points. As you mentioned the DOF preview gives the SLR user the option of viewing at full aperture or at working aperture. Without AASD this option is more time-consuming. I am able to find critical focus with the a7II's EVF without magnification but it takes longer at working aperture than at full aperture. Focus shift isn't a problem with the 280mm f/4 APO. So for myself the problem isn't accuracy it's speed with accuracy. AASD is a moot question with M lenses because these lenses don't have this capability. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaiste Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share #47 Posted November 9, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a question for those who have tested the SL with the SL 24-90. Does it work at full aperture until the picture is taken or does it always work at the selected aperture ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 9, 2015 Share #48 Posted November 9, 2015 I have a question for those who have tested the SL with the SL 24-90. Does it work at full aperture until the picture is taken or does it always work at the selected aperture ? Using the SL with the 24-90, I found it was just like using my Olympus E-M1: I have no real idea what the camera is doing with the aperture while I'm focusing and framing. I know that if I press the preview button on the Olympus, it will stop down to working aperture and the same on the SL if I have the simulation/preview option turned on, but that's about it. I decided to buy the 24-90 even though I have the focal length range doubly-triply covered by M, R, and Nikkor lenses. Why? Well, this way I have OIS for the range, which I do find very useful on occasion, and also it occurred to me that without at least one dedicated lens at hand, I can't even test all the features of the camera, never mind find out how to exploit them to best advantage. When I handled it, the 24-90 appealed to me as the incredibly nicely finished big lump that it is, a beautiful lens optimized to make the most of the SL body. I know I'll likely walk around with my 'Lux-R 50 (or 'Cron-R 35 or 90) on the camera most of the time—that's just what I do—but the 24-90 is, I think, an important part of the complete kit at this point in time and, as long as I'm putting this much money and effort into the SL, I want the complete kit to work with. I've already blocked out certain important portions of the guide book I'll write for this camera, based on two hours handling and a few more hours studying the manual. And I already have a 12 item list of feature enhancements that I need to check whether it has or not before sending it on to Leica ... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted November 9, 2015 Share #49 Posted November 9, 2015 I have a question for those who have tested the SL with the SL 24-90. Does it work at full aperture until the picture is taken or does it always work at the selected aperture ? Good question. I would humbly suggest that if the new SL lens, designed for an EVF camera, incorporates an automatic diaphragm it's not an unimportant feature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 9, 2015 Share #50 Posted November 9, 2015 . AASD is a moot question with M lenses because these lenses don't have this capability. Blush! Of course they don't! Silly me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted November 9, 2015 Share #51 Posted November 9, 2015 HI John I'd get an T to M adapter and then add an M to R/contax/nikon/yourchoice adapter to that (if it doesn't have a six bit code you can easily mark it with one). Then you'll have a list of the R lenses to pick from with intelligent auto ISO etc. Hi there, which six bit code is necessary to mark the adaptor and bring up the R lenses list ? (I don't have a M to R Leica adapter with me right now to look at) My R lenses are all "Leitaxed" in Nikon F mount and from reading your post, can I assume that six bit coding a M to Nikon adapter will bring the R lens list active on a M240? Cheers JM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 9, 2015 Share #52 Posted November 9, 2015 When I used Contax SLR's I had a right angle finder with variable magnification, which was brilliant for technical shots with close up lenses and/or macro bellows, with the camera hung from a side bar on my huge Manfrotto 074B tripod. Not suitable of course for the quick reaction work that Doug does but excellent for slow deliberate really accurate work and copying. There is no reason Leica could not make a variable magnification right angle finder for the SL. Not exactly cutting edge stuff. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 9, 2015 Share #53 Posted November 9, 2015 When I used Contax SLR's I had a right angle finder with variable magnification, which was brilliant for technical shots with close up lenses and/or macro bellows, with the camera hung from a side bar on my huge Manfrotto 074B tripod. Not suitable of course for the quick reaction work that Doug does but excellent for slow deliberate really accurate work and copying. There is no reason Leica could not make a variable magnification right angle finder for the SL. Not exactly cutting edge stuff. I'm pretty sure you can find right angle finders on the market already that would work for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 9, 2015 Share #54 Posted November 9, 2015 Hi there, which six bit code is necessary to mark the adaptor and bring up the R lenses list ? (I don't have a M to R Leica adapter with me right now to look at) My R lenses are all "Leitaxed" in Nikon F mount and from reading your post, can I assume that six bit coding a M to Nikon adapter will bring the R lens list active on a M240? Cheers JM See photo attached Wilson PS If you have the Leitax R to M mounts with the code pits milled, you may find these are not correctly aligned. I pointed this out to David and he withdrew the mounts for the time being. I don't know if they have been reintroduced with correctly milled pits. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/252711-leica-r-and-m-lenses-on-the-leica-sl-typ-601/?do=findComment&comment=2924494'>More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted November 9, 2015 Share #55 Posted November 9, 2015 See photo attached Wilson PS If you have the Leitax R to M mounts with the code pits milled, you may find these are not correctly aligned. I pointed this out to David and he withdrew the mounts for the time being. I don't know if they have been reintroduced with correctly milled pits. R to M.jpg Wilson, my R lenses are in Nikon F mount . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicaflex Posted November 9, 2015 Share #56 Posted November 9, 2015 See photo attached Wilson PS If you have the Leitax R to M mounts with the code pits milled, you may find these are not correctly aligned. I pointed this out to David and he withdrew the mounts for the time being. I don't know if they have been reintroduced with correctly milled pits. R to M.jpg I mailed David today and he says he has no Plans to reintroduce the R to M mount but he will produce a R to T mount. I asked him if it will be chiped, no answer so far, but I suppose it won't have a chip. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 9, 2015 Share #57 Posted November 9, 2015 HI John I'd get an T to M adapter and then add an M to R/contax/nikon/yourchoice adapter to that (if it doesn't have a six bit code you can easily mark it with one). Then you'll have a list of the R lenses to pick from with intelligent auto ISO etc. Thanks Jono, I already have the Leica M to L adapter. I really wasn't thinking when I ordered the Novoflex R to L adapter. At this stage, I have one ROM R lens and a ROM extender, so I'm holding out for a Leica R to L adapter that will read the ROM chip - it would be a huge missed opportunity if Leica did not include this. Like you, I feel that AASD would be nice, but technically I'm wondering if this is really feasible. Does the 24-90mm zoom stop down? Or do you focus that at working apertures? If it doesn't have AASD, then I can't see how this would be fitted to an adapter just for R lenses. Thanks for the coding, Wilson. I will try marking the Novoflex adapter so at least it will bring up the R lens list - hopefully it will give me something to go with. I don't really want an R to M adapter, as I can't focus an R lens with my M cameras. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JMF Posted November 9, 2015 Share #58 Posted November 9, 2015 Thx Wilson, got it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
psss Posted November 9, 2015 Share #59 Posted November 9, 2015 anyone have an idea how other rangefinder lenses (voigtlander, zeiss) will work on SL? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonoslack Posted November 9, 2015 Share #60 Posted November 9, 2015 Wilson, my R lenses are in Nikon F mount . Hi There No problem If you have a TL to M adapter (which you'll need anyway) then you can get an M to Nikon adapter . . . and code it the same as the image Wilson has given - it will then bring up the R lens list correctly (I've done this on a Contax to M adapter successfully). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.