jaapv Posted November 18, 2015 Share #321 Posted November 18, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well, we do want the unboxing videos on U Tube to be impressive, don't we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 18, 2015 Posted November 18, 2015 Hi jaapv, Take a look here New Leica M in September 2016? The speculations.. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
John Ricard Posted November 18, 2015 Share #322 Posted November 18, 2015 Anyone reading this will have to trust me when I say, my statement here is not intended to be trolling nor is it intended to be offense. But it really seems to me that any pro photographer should be able to look at a scene and make an accurate assessment of what lens he need -without the use of a preview lever. And in the case of the Leica, if you've got one lens on the camera, you're already seeing another preview. So there's always a chance that that preview is the lens you might have gone to. Otherwise, if you've got, say a 35mm on the camera, it really should not be that difficult for you to mentally know what a 24mm or 50mm lens will look like on that scene. Honestly, I've never touched the preview lever on my M9 and I'm glad its gone from my M240 because the camera looks better without it. But in all my years of shooting with my Leica and a wide range of lenses (21, 24, 35, 50 and 75), I don't think I have ever once put on a particular lens, taken and image and THEN realized it was the wrong lens. Again, if you've been shooting for any number of months, you should be able to look at any scene and know what lens you'll need for the image you have in mind. And finally, I often shoot with my entire range of lenses with me. I'm guessing most people are walking around with 2 lenses, or maybe 3 at the most. So why would you need a preview when you're dealing with maybe just a wide, normal and tele lens. How could you not know which lens is appropriate for the scene? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 18, 2015 Share #323 Posted November 18, 2015 Why not simply consider that your tastes are not shared by everybody? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 18, 2015 Share #324 Posted November 18, 2015 Why not simply consider that your tastes are not shared by everybody? He seemed to be at some pains to point out that they may not be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted November 18, 2015 Share #325 Posted November 18, 2015 Why not simply consider that your tastes are not shared by everybody? There are all sorts of tastes that people have, that I understand completely. Some people like shooting on a tripod. I don't. But I understand why they do. Some people like those Black Rapid upside down camera straps. I get why they like using those, but I despise them -even when I'm shooting with large Nikon bodies. However, I can't understand why someone would feel the "need" a preview lever. Likewise, I can't understand why someone would want to remove video if it only adds one small button to the camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted November 18, 2015 Share #326 Posted November 18, 2015 [...] I can't understand why someone would feel the "need" a preview lever. [...] To preview the field of view of a 75mm lens when i have a 35mm for instance. I can guess it but i prefer viewing the frames personally. I liked much the preview lever of my first Leica a superb M4 in 1971, then i still liked it on my M3, M4-2, M6J and M8.2 bodies, now i miss it on the M240... Must be something in my blood i guess... Don't panic, it is not contagious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 18, 2015 Share #327 Posted November 18, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) But it really seems to me that any pro photographer should be able to look at a scene and make an accurate assessment of what lens he need -without the use of a preview lever. I'm sure many experienced photographers could say the same about an in-camera meter.....how hard is it to learn exposure? The point is that preferences vary, and not everyone is similarly experienced or capable. Not too hard to understand, I don't think. Different strokes....which is why choices are good, given typically different models and options to choose. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted November 18, 2015 Share #328 Posted November 18, 2015 However, I can't understand why someone would feel the "need" a preview lever. Likewise, I can't understand why someone would want to remove video if it only adds one small button to the camera. Especially since there is nothing you could do with a frame selector lever that you couldn’t do without. Whereas there is no way you could capture video without a video mode. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted November 18, 2015 Share #329 Posted November 18, 2015 I wonder why movie directors use a director's finder. They are even more professional than us after all, and they could easily visualize the frame without this accessory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted November 18, 2015 Share #330 Posted November 18, 2015 To preview the field of view of a 75mm lens when i have a 35mm for instance. I can guess it but i prefer viewing the frames personally. I liked much the preview lever of my first Leica a superb M4 in 1971, then i still liked it on my M3, M4-2, M6J and M8.2 bodies, now i miss it on the M240... Must be something in my blood i guess... Don't panic, it is not contagious Let's really examine this seriously. When you have the 35mm on the camera, what other lenses are in consideration for you? Are you comparing the 75mm against a 50mm, or possibly a 90mm? What exactly is the mental debate that is going on? How many lenses do you have with you when you're making this decision? Because, let's say you're walking around with only a 35mm and a 75mm. Then I really don't understand the need for the frame lines. If you need anything longer than the 35mm on your camera, you have no option but to use the 75mm, so there's really no need to preview it. It's only if you had the 75 and the 90 and you were trying to decide which lens would be correct, that maybe I could see you previewing it, but even then, I would expect other considerations would affect the lens choice. Like maybe one of the lenses is faster than the other so that is determining which one you are using. Not to mention, does the subject automatically tell you what lens to use? I am a portrait photographer. I know right away that I'm using my 75 for headshot. I'm using it for full length if the room is big enough. My 35 is for environmental portraits. The 24mm is for when I want to be right in your face and get some environment as well. I could close my eyes and tel you what lens I need because its determined by the composition I have in my mind -not what I'm actually seeing. But I'd really like for you to elaborate on this scenario you're mentioned here... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 18, 2015 Share #331 Posted November 18, 2015 Suppose a new user only owns one lens and would like to visualize alternate frame lines....while out shooting....that wouldn't otherwise appear? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted November 18, 2015 Share #332 Posted November 18, 2015 Suppose a new user only owns one lens and would like to visualize alternate frame lines....while out shooting....that wouldn't otherwise appear? Jeff So they know which lens to buy next? Useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted November 18, 2015 Share #333 Posted November 18, 2015 Suppose a new user only owns one lens and would like to visualize alternate frame lines....while out shooting....that wouldn't otherwise appear? Jeff So you'd add a feature to a camera in the event that some dude only owns one lens but wants to imagine what the scene would look like if he owned a different lens? Really? We're adding buttons and switches to cameras specifically for people who cannot use these features? "Hey, let's allow people to see what the framing would look like on lenses they can't actually shoot with!" That makes absolutely no sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ricard Posted November 18, 2015 Share #334 Posted November 18, 2015 So they know which lens to buy next? Useful. The framing of a lens is only a small part of lens choice. There are so many other factors -price, size, lens speed, that come into play. Perspective distortion is probably the most important, in my opinion. If you're shooting people, a 24mm lens might force you to be close to your subjects. This can cause distortion, that for some images, is not a good thing. With a 75mm, you're forced to back up if you want to include a lot of their body. This can be good or bad. The point is, knowing the angle of view of say, a 24mm lens (which is the ONLY thing the frame preview tells you) is such a small part of actually understanding how you will use a lens, that it doesn't make sense to add an entire feature to a camera just to give this little bit of information. In other words, whether you buy any given lens is going to have more to do with how you are going to actually use the lens, than what field of view that lens captures. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted November 18, 2015 Share #335 Posted November 18, 2015 So they know which lens to buy next? Useful. Or to decide they don't need to buy anything....after using their feet. Not everyone here is used to RF shooting. The preview lever has been around for a long time for a reason....this is just one possible usage. For those that don't want one, there are options. What's the big deal? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted November 18, 2015 Share #336 Posted November 18, 2015 My primary use for the frame selector is to bring up alternative frames to use as a horizon line. If a future camera had > 15 stops of dynamic range, I think I could easily live without a LCD or histogram. If a future camera had a global shutter,would it then need a speaker to generate feedback noise - such as the sound of a classic gear train ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efreed2754 Posted November 18, 2015 Share #337 Posted November 18, 2015 However, I can't understand why someone would feel the "need" a preview lever. Have a feeling going to regret this post, but... . John will answer you in two ways, the first theoretical and second experiential. Just because you see no need doesn't mean someone else doesn't. No offense however anyone's personal view should not deprive others from seeing a way or use. After all artists are very creative and have an eye or creative mind most others do not. Second, I gave an example above of shooting a classical concert from my seat or a relatively fixed position. I often shoot concerts of my wife or her students when they perform at her University. Some concerts may be solos, duets, quintets and full band or orchestra. When the stage is full of players, I like to get at least a few shots covering all the players. They like to see themselves after all and The University likes a record of who played on a given evening. Now depending on the size of the stage, number of performers (1-70), and my position, might need a 90, 75, 50, 35 or 24. Usually one of the last three suffice. Prefer to fill the frame width wise to reduce need to crop. So 35 may work or it may omit players on far left or right. Furthermore, concerts are not fixed like a model or a mountain. They move in time and space and 21st Century music is shorter. So....to get in the full ensemble with the least cropping and during the performance, use of the preview lever can be critical to capturing that decisive moment. (There got it out). There are probably other uses but my mind is used up as its late and just returned from a pro basketball game which is indeed very loud and deafening! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rramesh Posted November 18, 2015 Share #338 Posted November 18, 2015 I have photographic memory. I don't need a camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
efreed2754 Posted November 18, 2015 Share #339 Posted November 18, 2015 I have photographic memory. I don't need a camera. How do you share your mental images? Just asking... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted November 18, 2015 Share #340 Posted November 18, 2015 He uses a thousand words. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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