hepcat Posted October 31, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 31, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I just tried something I found interesting... I downloaded a decibel meter for my iPhone and set my camera(s) up about a foot from the phone's mic in a very quiet room and released the shutter several times each on both the M9P and my M4-P. Interestingly both shutters released consistently at an indicated 109db at that distance. Discreet mode on the M9P also released consistently at 109 db... although the following re-cock function sounded somewhat more quiet as a separate function than the shutter release itself. Now, of course, my phone isn't a calibrated decibel meter, but I though it interesting that the two shutters had nearly identical indicated noise volume at a distance of about a foot. Of course, one is a vertical Copal metal shutter and the other a horizontal cloth shutter so they make different sounds... but why do folks pan the M9 shutter as being noisy? Or is it just that my M4-P isn't as quiet as an M4 (which I don't have to test?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 31, 2015 Posted October 31, 2015 Hi hepcat, Take a look here Informal M9P shutter noise comparison to M4-P. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 2, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 2, 2015 Hello Hepcat, 109 decibels sounds like a large number for anybody's camera. You might try recalibrating & measuring again. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay B Posted November 2, 2015 Share #3 Posted November 2, 2015 Yes indeed, I don't believe my shutter sounds like a power saw. Decibel (Loudness) Comparison: Weakest sound heard 0dBWhisper Quiet Library at 6' 30dBNormal conversation at 3' 60-65dBTelephone dial tone 80dBCity Traffic (inside car) 85dBTruck Traffic 90dBJackhammer at 50' 95dBSubway train at 200' 95dBHand Drill 98dBPower mower at 3' 107dBSnowmobile, Motorcycle 100dBPower saw at 3' 110dB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 3, 2015 Share #4 Posted November 3, 2015 Wear earplugs at 109. It's,over the OSHA threshold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted November 3, 2015 The point, guys, isn't what the db level was... for cryin' out loud... I was using a free app on an iPhone! What IS significant though was that the reading was so similar and consistent between the two cameras. Folks have complained about the shutter noise on the digital cameras and said they're so much louder than the cloth fp film shutters... but my casual test showed them to be about the same noise level. They sound about the same to me as well. So my question is why the concern about the M8/M9 shutters' noise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 3, 2015 Share #6 Posted November 3, 2015 I have no concerns about the noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
david strachan Posted November 3, 2015 Share #7 Posted November 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Roger I realise you are only doing comparison tests, not absolutes. Very interesting comparing the M9P and the M4-P. How does the M8 shutter-recock compare to the M9P? When you have time perhaps you'd be so kind to do the test for us...I'm sure the M8 will be a little loader, as anecdotal evidence suggests. There has been so much written; a comparison would be very interesting. You still have an M8?...I'd do it myself but don't have an M9! Thanks Dave S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted November 3, 2015 Hi Roger I realise you are only doing comparison tests, not absolutes. Very interesting comparing the M9P and the M4-P. How does the M8 shutter-recock compare to the M9P? When you have time perhaps you'd be so kind to do the test for us...I'm sure the M8 will be a little loader, as anecdotal evidence suggests. There has been so much written; a comparison would be very interesting. You still have an M8?...I'd do it myself but don't have an M9! Thanks Dave S I would have really liked to have been able to do that, Dave, but unfortunately I no longer have my beautiful M8. I foolishly sold it a year or so ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted November 3, 2015 I have no concerns about the noise. Nor do I, Jim. This is really academic to me, but I recall much was made about the shutter volume of the M8 and claims in the M9 that it was more quiet and the M is supposed to be more quiet yet; but they're all alleged to be MUCH louder than the flim M shutters... and I'm just not seeing that they are. It would be interesting to see an actual comparison of the shutter volumes of the various bodies in a controlled lab setting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted November 3, 2015 Share #10 Posted November 3, 2015 Nor do I, Jim. This is really academic to me, but I recall much was made about the shutter volume of the M8 and claims in the M9 that it was more quiet and the M is supposed to be more quiet yet; but they're all alleged to be MUCH louder than the flim M shutters... and I'm just not seeing that they are. It would be interesting to see an actual comparison of the shutter volumes of the various bodies in a controlled lab setting. I think they are comparing the automatic shutter recock noise of the digital bodies which happens in conjunction with the shutter opening noise. In the film bodies all you got was the shutter firing noise and the recock was forgotten as it was manual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 3, 2015 Share #11 Posted November 3, 2015 I just tried something I found interesting... I downloaded a decibel meter for my iPhone and set my camera(s) up about a foot from the phone's mic in a very quiet room and released the shutter several times each on both the M9P and my M4-P. Interestingly both shutters released consistently at an indicated 109db at that distance. Discreet mode on the M9P also released consistently at 109 db... although the following re-cock function sounded somewhat more quiet as a separate function than the shutter release itself. Now, of course, my phone isn't a calibrated decibel meter, but I though it interesting that the two shutters had nearly identical indicated noise volume at a distance of about a foot. Of course, one is a vertical Copal metal shutter and the other a horizontal cloth shutter so they make different sounds... but why do folks pan the M9 shutter as being noisy? Or is it just that my M4-P isn't as quiet as an M4 (which I don't have to test?) The absolute volume of the M9 shutter sound wasn't the issue for me. It was the seemingly long and slow, anemic-sounding re-cock that I found annoying. Compared to my M4-2 shutter, the M9 shutter itself seemed about the same volume but a higher pitch, perhaps a little more noticeable to my ears. When I upgraded to the M-P, the first thing I noticed was that the re-cock sound was barely audible at all and the shutter overall never had that same "I wonder if it's about to break, or if the battery is about to expire" sound, to my ears. Digression: Yesterday, I pulled out all eight of my digital cameras to update the Time for PST. Just as a matter of habit, I snapped a couple of exposures with each after doing so. You don't realize just how quiet and slick the M-P shutter sounds until you fire it after snapping shutters on six other digital cameras, particularly a FF DSLR! :-) Of all these cameras, the Leica X typ 113 is quietest with its in-lens leaf shutter. The M-P, E-M1, and E-1 are closely matched in overall noise, but with very different noise pattern and timbre. The E-PL7 and K-01 are about on par, and the Nikon D750 creates the noisiest commotion. Of course, then I pull out my Hasselblad 500CM and fire it a couple of times, and I think of pumps and shovels clattering about in a tramp steamers' engine room...! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted November 3, 2015 The absolute volume of the M9 shutter sound wasn't the issue for me. It was the seemingly long and slow, anemic-sounding re-cock that I found annoying. Compared to my M4-2 shutter, the M9 shutter itself seemed about the same volume but a higher pitch, perhaps a little more noticeable to my ears. When I upgraded to the M-P, the first thing I noticed was that the re-cock sound was barely audible at all and the shutter overall never had that same "I wonder if it's about to break, or if the battery is about to expire" sound, to my ears. Digression: Yesterday, I pulled out all eight of my digital cameras to update the Time for PST. Just as a matter of habit, I snapped a couple of exposures with each after doing so. You don't realize just how quiet and slick the M-P shutter sounds until you fire it after snapping shutters on six other digital cameras, particularly a FF DSLR! :-) Of all these cameras, the Leica X typ 113 is quietest with its in-lens leaf shutter. The M-P, E-M1, and E-1 are closely matched in overall noise, but with very different noise pattern and timbre. The E-PL7 and K-01 are about on par, and the Nikon D750 creates the noisiest commotion. Of course, then I pull out my Hasselblad 500CM and fire it a couple of times, and I think of pumps and shovels clattering about in a tramp steamers' engine room...! That's really funny you should mention the Hassy... you know the Hassy shutters are some of the quietest around... it's the mirror box that makes the racket! And that reminds me of my wedding in 1978. I LOVE my Hassy! I got married on the beach on Guam at sunset. A buddy of mine shot it with an RB67. We did an audio recording of the ceremony and you can clearly hear the ocean, the birds chirping, and that RB67 winding on and crashing with every exposure. It's pretty funny, actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted November 3, 2015 I think they are comparing the automatic shutter recock noise of the digital bodies which happens in conjunction with the shutter opening noise. In the film bodies all you got was the shutter firing noise and the recock was forgotten as it was manual. I've often wondered over the years why Leica didn't leave the shutter advance as a manual operation, and provide a power winder motor (like from the earlier M film bodies) for auto advance? I suppose it'd have been too difficult to shoehorn all the gearing in with the electronics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 3, 2015 Share #14 Posted November 3, 2015 I tried the same on an iPhone 6, and the decibels were about the same for an M4-P and M9, however the quality or nature of the sounds were different. The M4-P seemed louder. (Yes, I wore my hearing aids which might make a difference in perception.) I did the test using a shutter speed of 1/125 and a sample period of .5 seconds while photographing the iPhone screen, paying attention only to the peak reading. I've often wondered over the years why Leica didn't leave the shutter advance as a manual operation, and provide a power winder motor (like from the earlier M film bodies) for auto advance? I suppose it'd have been too difficult to shoehorn all the gearing in with the electronics. Too expensive! But that's an idea. I can test using the M7 with and without motor wind against the M9. But later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted November 3, 2015 Share #15 Posted November 3, 2015 That's really funny you should mention the Hassy... you know the Hassy shutters are some of the quietest around... it's the mirror box that makes the racket! And that reminds me of my wedding in 1978. I LOVE my Hassy! I did a model with motorcycle session with a Pentax 67 and she broke up laughing when it fired. It took her a few minutes to settle down, but the laughing shots were pretty good! I like my 'Blads, too, in particular when pre-fired (or the SWC all the time.) They are so quiet that I sometimes can't even tell if the shutter worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kinross Posted November 3, 2015 Share #16 Posted November 3, 2015 My main issue with my M9 has always been the shutter re-cock noise. Is the M9- P any quieter as noted by ramarren in this thread. If this is the case I may be tempted to trade my M9 for the P. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hepcat Posted November 3, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted November 3, 2015 My main issue with my M9 has always been the shutter re-cock noise. Is the M9- P any quieter as noted by ramarren in this thread. If this is the case I may be tempted to trade my M9 for the P. Mike That's interesting, Mike. I'd never considered that the recocking noise was a big deal. It's about half the level of the shutter itself. I guess it's the duration? No, I don't think that the M9-P is any different from the M9. It's got the same shutter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 3, 2015 Share #18 Posted November 3, 2015 I've often wondered over the years why Leica didn't leave the shutter advance as a manual operation, and provide a power winder motor (like from the earlier M film bodies) for auto advance? I suppose it'd have been too difficult to shoehorn all the gearing in with the electronics. I had an Epson R-D1 that does that. Frankly, I found it incredibly clunky and silly to wind on a shutter with a digital camera. I didn't take to the R-D1 at all and returned it to the vendor two days later, despite the fact that I loved its beautiful clockwork-like readout gizmo. The M9, by comparison, made the R-D1 feel like a bodge-together. (And please don't get me wrong: I'm not disparaging the many folks I know who love the R-D1 and make beautiful photos with it ... It just didn't suit me at all. That's not its fault... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 3, 2015 Share #19 Posted November 3, 2015 I did a model with motorcycle session with a Pentax 67 and she broke up laughing when it fired. It took her a few minutes to settle down, but the laughing shots were pretty good! I like my 'Blads, too, in particular when pre-fired (or the SWC all the time.) They are so quiet that I sometimes can't even tell if the shutter worked. My Hasselblad V kit is up for sale ... except for the SWC. I use it so infrequently I sometimes wonder why I love it so much, but every so often I go out and spend a day or three shooting with it ... and then I know why all over again. Cannot bear to part with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted November 3, 2015 Share #20 Posted November 3, 2015 My main issue with my M9 has always been the shutter re-cock noise. Is the M9- P any quieter as noted by ramarren in this thread. If this is the case I may be tempted to trade my M9 for the P. The M9-P is exactly the same as the M9, shutter-wise. I was referring to the M-P typ 240. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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