colonel Posted October 19, 2015 Share #1 Posted October 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) So I am looking for a pocketish size camera with good picture quality and decent ISO performance. I am realistic on size so just looking for coat pocket, as opposed to a jacket or trouser pocket The cameras I was considering: (price * lowish, ** midish, *** topish) 1" sensors: Canon G5X ** Sony RX100 IV *** 4/3sish: Leica 109 *** Panasonic LX100 * APS-C: Leica X2 or X-E *** Ricoh GR ** Fuji X100T *** Leica 113 *** FF: RX1R *** RX1Rii **** Leica Q **** I am coming down to an X2 or X-E purely based on camera size and quality of output. The downside is no video, which is not important but nice to have. Smallest with zoom I think the Sony RX100IV takes it but not sure I want the trade off with noise of the 1" (or 4/3s) sensor for zoom or size. I think 113/X100T/Q too big for what I want and 28mm not as useful for me (GR/Q). The RX1R or Rii would be ideal but I am not sure that the advantages over APS-C, which are there of course, I need for this application and the extra cost to be honest, as if I am serious my M240 would be coming with me anyway. What do you guys think ? I can get X-E or X2 new or ex-demo quite cheap and its nice to have 2 years warranty but should I go 1" or 4/3s and get a zoom !!!! Is the ISO performance of the 1" or 4/3s sensor that much noticeably different - for those that have both ? "Rehoboam wisely asked for three days to consult advisors and to think about it" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 19, 2015 Posted October 19, 2015 Hi colonel, Take a look here Pocket size perfection. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
rjans Posted October 19, 2015 Share #2 Posted October 19, 2015 Personally, I would go for a APS-C sensor camera. If you look around, it is possible to buy a new X-2 (black) in Austria for a price lower than the X-E. Good luck Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith (M) Posted October 19, 2015 Share #3 Posted October 19, 2015 Versatile, truly pocketable, great performance - who else but 'Elsie' Oh, zoom and video too... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted October 19, 2015 Versatile, truly pocketable, great performance - who else but 'Elsie' Oh, zoom and video too... Thankyou Keith, I see this is a love of yours Always great to see I did used to use a camera with that size sensor but I found considerable noise at ISO 400 and kind of never wanted to go above 800. Are the newer cameras better ? It does look very nice in whitegold though Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjans Posted October 19, 2015 Share #5 Posted October 19, 2015 Thankyou Keith, I see this is a love of yours Always great to see I did used to use a camera with that size sensor but I found considerable noise at ISO 400 and kind of never wanted to go above 800. Are the newer cameras better ? It does look very nice in whitegold though I have the Leica C (in white gold), the X (113) and also the X Vario (a very underrated camera - due to the disaster campaign). Noise performance of the C is good up to 400-800 ISO, but an X or X Vario have better noise performance. Note: I find the video performance of the C better than with the X. The lens of the X Vario is rather slow for video. Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMorita Posted October 21, 2015 Share #6 Posted October 21, 2015 Coincidentally, I have a Leica X Vario, an RX1m1, and an RX100m1 (and a few more). The RX100m1 is my travel camera when I'm carrying around a lot of equipment, such as when rock-climbing or paragliding. The great thing about it is it's light, small, and the lens retracts completely into the body so I don't worry about damaging it. Image quality is best between ISO 100 and 400, and two-axis optical image stabilization. Seattle street shots with the RX100 here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155551545390347&set=a.10152132005265347.918281.756295346&type=3&theater The RX1m1 I mostly use for cosplay photography. It's a 35mm fixed lens, so it's a bit limited. The lens is a bit fragile IMHO - I've had it repaired once because the focus was having problems due to rough handling. Image quality is best between ISO 100 and 1600, and no image stabilization like the LXV. I think the RX100 is better than the RX1 for travel due to the lens retracting fully into the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMorita Posted October 21, 2015 Share #7 Posted October 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) IMHO image stabilization is more important than high ISO performance. In my experience, a non-IS camera has good image quality in good conditions, but the image quality deteriorates rapidly when the conditions are not good. This is because the ISO needs to be raised to maintain a decent shutter speed in darker conditions. A camera with good IS can shoot at low ISO in darker conditions. So personally given a choice of small-sensor camera with IS versus a large-sensor camera with no IS, I prefer the small-sensor camera. This is an RX10 (yes RX10) shot at ISO 250 and 0.8 seconds: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156114459520347&set=a.10152132005265347.918281.756295346&type=3&theater In order to do this shot with an LXV or RX1 which have no image stabilization, I'd probably have to shoot at 1/30th which would require about ISO 6400. So for this case, a 1 inch sensor camera with IS at ISO 250 probably beats the APS-C or FF camera with no IS at ISO 6400. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted October 21, 2015 IMHO image stabilization is more important than high ISO performance. In my experience, a non-IS camera has good image quality in good conditions, but the image quality deteriorates rapidly when the conditions are not good. This is because the ISO needs to be raised to maintain a decent shutter speed in darker conditions. A camera with good IS can shoot at low ISO in darker conditions. So personally given a choice of small-sensor camera with IS versus a large-sensor camera with no IS, I prefer the small-sensor camera. This is an RX10 (yes RX10) shot at ISO 250 and 0.8 seconds: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156114459520347&set=a.10152132005265347.918281.756295346&type=3&theater In order to do this shot with an LXV or RX1 which have no image stabilization, I'd probably have to shoot at 1/30th which would require about ISO 6400. So for this case, a 1 inch sensor camera with IS at ISO 250 probably beats the APS-C or FF camera with no IS at ISO 6400. I like your travel photos All taken on a RX10 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Rawcs Posted October 21, 2015 Share #9 Posted October 21, 2015 I was expecting the Leica X-U to be announced along with the SL. Perhaps today? Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted October 21, 2015 I was expecting the Leica X-U to be announced along with the SL. Perhaps today? Mike. I think thats just a 113 special edition i really wanted to love and buy the 113, and I'm still thinking about it, but the main sticking point is the size. It needs a bag and them I might as well take the M240. The X2 however fits nicely in a coat pocket Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted October 23, 2015 Share #11 Posted October 23, 2015 I think thats just a 113 special edition i really wanted to love and buy the 113, and I'm still thinking about it, but the main sticking point is the size. It needs a bag and them I might as well take the M240. The X2 however fits nicely in a coat pocket The X 113 is MUCH lighter than an M, and with AF it is a totally user experience. I love my M-E and M Monochrom, but on trips where photography is not the primary focus more often than not I leave the Ms at home and take the X. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMorita Posted October 24, 2015 Share #12 Posted October 24, 2015 I like your travel photos All taken on a RX10 ? Thanks! I use a bunch of different cameras. They're not really travel photos; they're mostly locations within an hour's drive from me. I'm currently unemployed, so trying to spend my time productively by practicing photography whenever possible. Here are some recent batches with the Leica X Vario: https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156282608825347?pnref=story https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156274251550347?pnref=story https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156264545575347&set=a.10152132005265347.918281.756295346&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155937446645347&set=a.10152132005265347.918281.756295346&type=3 https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155925103240347&set=a.10152132005265347.918281.756295346&type=3 RX100 model 1: https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156270071705347 https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156266840625347 https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156197040395347 https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156137226325347 RX10 model 1: https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156110963875347 https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156092330960347 https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156064356740347 https://www.facebook.com/toshiyasu.morita.1/posts/10156013471215347 RX1 model 1: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156212217270347&set=a.10152132005265347.918281.756295346&type=3&theater I tend to rotate cameras to keep things fresh and interesting. Toshi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted October 24, 2015 Share #13 Posted October 24, 2015 Agree the X1/2/E is a lot smaller than the Typ 113. There's a lot to be said for having a compact take anywhere camera. I find the D-Lux 5 is handy -- but APS sensor does make a difference to IQ. Main question perhaps is what lens do you use most? Would f/2.8 be fast enough? Do you really need a zoom? Toshi, that's a wild coast! Whereabouts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DwF Posted October 25, 2015 Share #14 Posted October 25, 2015 I would also agree the X 113 is larger than the X1/2 E but when I had my X1 and travelled in the Middle East, I recall my LX3 felt pocketable and the X1 was relegated to a neck strap. That said, the X1 made files that were on another level and I carried it most everywhere. For me none of the APS C cameras are really pocketable. I guess it also depends on the size of the pocket! David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chronomania Posted October 25, 2015 Share #15 Posted October 25, 2015 ´The panasonic gx1 is VERY small and the image quality, even with the standard zoom, is stunning. Add a 20mm 1.7 (equiv 40mm) or a leica designed 15mm 1.7 and you.ll have a perfect combo. M43 is about as good as aps-c but far more contact, I even use an Olympus 0MD for concert pictures and get more positive feedbacks from customers than when I was using the excellent but so heavy canon 5D with a 70-200 2.8 [emoji1] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMorita Posted October 25, 2015 Share #16 Posted October 25, 2015 Agree the X1/2/E is a lot smaller than the Typ 113. There's a lot to be said for having a compact take anywhere camera. I find the D-Lux 5 is handy -- but APS sensor does make a difference to IQ. Main question perhaps is what lens do you use most? Would f/2.8 be fast enough? Do you really need a zoom? Toshi, that's a wild coast! Whereabouts? They're various spots on the Northern California coast. All between Monterey and Pacifica, inclusive. Toshi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted October 25, 2015 Share #17 Posted October 25, 2015 Thanks Toshi, I thought they might be around there. I've been to Monterey Bay (fantastic aquarium) and seen some of the coastline around there. Also looks like some fun dramatics. One of the big pluses of compacts is how fast and simple they are to handle -- letting you concentrate on composition. Compacts can produce terrific results. Always a bit hard to tell on a screen of course. Pictures from all these look good, even smaller sensors -- which do you prefer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted October 27, 2015 Author Share #18 Posted October 27, 2015 Guys thanks for your thoughts. I have gone ahead and bought a mint (actually unused) special edition X2 at a very good price. I realised that what I actually wanted was a pocket sized f2.8 aps-c compact. As that doesn't, and never will, exist, I decided that the ISO performance and quality of lens was more important and therefore dumped the RX100/Leica 109 thoughts. That only left me with the Ricoh gr, X2/X-E and RX1. The RX1 is overkill and the X2 has the focal length better for me, so that's where I am. Looking fwd to it coming. Will post pics when it arrives Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted October 27, 2015 Share #19 Posted October 27, 2015 I'm sure you will love it Harold. I often get my all original X1 out, the size and sheer pocketability (is that a word?) makes me very happy. Similar shape, size, concept to my old 1A which I often carry with it. Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NZDavid Posted October 28, 2015 Share #20 Posted October 28, 2015 Same. I really liked the IQ from my old X1 though I no longer have it. Even if you got a zoom you can still only use one focal length at a time. And 35mm is very useful. Most the time in daylight you will be shooting at apertures smaller than f/2.8 anyway. When the light falls you can shoot wide open and crank up the ISO and get some excellent results. Compact, simple, high quality -- much like the very first Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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