First peek at the new SL ?

[wattsy]

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Looks like an S camera with the pentaprism removed (consistent of course with the rumoured mirrorless spec). Is there really much of an appetite for an $8k camera with a 24mm x 36mm sensor? Q model demand (or supply shortage) aside, Leica cameras are no longer flying off the shelves. I note that you can now buy a new S-E kit with 70/F2.5 lens for £7,995 from an authorised dealer, kit that was £20K RRP and £13K street only a year or so ago. Do we know that this "SL" is 35mm format and not simply a cheapened (cut-down both metaphorically and literally) version of the S system body that can sell at a lower price point? A mirrorless S body with bundled 70 for $8K would be an attractive introduction into the S system and encourage stagnant lens sales. 

[almoore]

Is there really much of an appetite for an $8k camera with a 24mm x 36mm sensor?

 

I wouldn't have thought so.

 

Historically, Leica has done well with the M series because it offered a very different experience in a world of SLRs. However, the majority of M photographers defaulted to the Japanese competition when they needed an SLR. The R series didn't offer enough to make it more attractive than a Nikon or Canon.

 

If the new Leica is a a full frame camera with an EVF, it's going to have to be remarkably capable or somehow different to lure buyers away from Sony's very good and rapidly evolving A7 series. If not, it's hard to see it doing any better than the lacklustre X and T cameras.

[earleygallery]

Looks like an S camera with the pentaprism removed (consistent of course with the rumoured mirrorless spec). Is there really much of an appetite for an $8k camera with a 24mm x 36mm sensor? Q model demand (or supply shortage) aside, Leica cameras are no longer flying off the shelves. I note that you can now buy a new S-E kit with 70/F2.5 lens for £7,995 from an authorised dealer, kit that was £20K RRP and £13K street only a year or so ago. Do we know that this "SL" is 35mm format and not simply a cheapened (cut-down both metaphorically and literally) version of the S system body that can sell at a lower price point? A mirrorless S body with bundled 70 for $8K would be an attractive introduction into the S system and encourage stagnant lens sales. 

 

Indeed it looks like they have used the S as a style reference rather than going for a retro Leicaflex design, but it seems certainly to be a 'FF' sensor given the lenses that are apparently going to be released with it.

 

I hadn't realised the S was available for £8K with lens - a lot of money still but the SL must surely be less expensive?

 

I still think Leica should have released a FF SLR - it would surely appeal to a greater number of potential buyers, given that global sales of SLR's are running at approx. 3X those of other types of system camera. I know lots will disagree with me on that of course, but the numbers are hard to deny. OK maybe EVIL will gain traction as technology improves (with better EVF's) but IMHO, and based on numbers of units sold, most people seem to prefer conventional SLR's right now.

[sblitz]

Q, R, S

[Ellie]

The latest picture looks really good, just what I imagined it could be if starting from a blank sheet with the design.

[earleygallery]

Q, R, S

 

Nope, it's SL, S! They could have used the 'R' name again, even though it's not a reflex.

 

The styling (from squinting at the blurry pics) looks good I have to say. I'm pleased they've avoided going for some retro pastiche thing.

[bocaburger]

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I'm thrilled there will be an entirely new Leica to satisfy the people who want a 24x36mm EVF camera with a red dot.  I'm thrilled because it means they can leave the M be and not bastardize the optomechanical rage/viewfinder with some hybrid EVF, and thus I would remain a potential buyer for a next-generation M. 

[sblitz]

Assuming there is a next generation M other than improving the sensor which I guess is good enough

[adan]

Just to clarify - since Ian mixed $ prices with £ prices. S-E with lens is $12,995 (= £8,550) from B&H or U.S. Leica stores as of today. Body only is $10,995 (= £7,233). Tax not included. Since any published price in the UK/EU is going to include VAT, "real" prices in £ or € will be tricky to equate.

 

It'll be interesting to see where the lens prices fall, since these are the first Leica lenses since the demise of the R system to go head-to-head, full-frame, against the M lenses. I mean, if a 24-90 comes in at $6,995, what does that mean for a 24-28-35-50-75-90 combo for the M (totalling, roughly, $18,000, depending on apertures chosen)?

 

It's intriguing that some see the SL as a "mini-S," while others see it as a "maxi-Q with interchangeable lenses." I just see it as a natural development, given the success of the Sony A7 line, and as a way to leverage FF sensors whose development has already been paid for (or whose development needs to be paid for, thus the advantage of yet another platform to spread the costs).

 

Personally, I kinda thought, on first rumor, that the SL would be a "Nikon-F'd" M240. Nikon created the first "F" SLR more or less by taking the Nikon SP rangefinder, removing the RF mechanisms, and replacing them with the TTL viewing parts (mirror, ground glass, prism). Google some images of the first F and the SP, and you'll see how much of the SP was re-used in the F.

 

I'm not a fan of the "used bar of soap" squishy curvy SLR body designs. I like the angular A7 or Fuji XT-1 "industrial machinery" approach, and hoped that the "modeled on the original Leicaflex" rumors were correct. But de gustibus non est disputandum.

[Jeff S]

Just to clarify - since Ian mixed $ prices with £ prices. S-E with lens is $12,995 (= £8,550) from B&H or U.S. Leica stores as of today.  

Nope, black S-E still discounted at B&H to $10,995.  For a while (until Leica nixed it), the Miami Leica store had significantly greater discounts...on the 006 and on lenses.

 

Jeff

[adan]

Jeff - that is without lens... Do try to keep up.

 

WITH LENS: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1168749-REG/leica_s10825_s_e_typ_006_medium.html

 

READ the exact words of mine you just quoted. Are they correct? S-E with lens is $12,995. Yes or no?

[Jeff S]

You're correct....arrogantly so.

 

Jeff

[adan]

I wanted to make this a PM - but your in-box is not accepting new messages.

 

I'm sorry, but jumping in and directly and abruptly contradicting someone ("Nope"), based on faulty information and poor reading skills, is in itself rude and arrogant.

 

My original post includes the information about the no-lens version being available for $10,995 - had you read what you were so busy editing out, we wouldn't be here.

[jonoslack]

 

Personally, I kinda thought, on first rumor, that the SL would be a "Nikon-F'd" M240. Nikon created the first "F" SLR more or less by taking the Nikon SP rangefinder, removing the RF mechanisms, and replacing them with the TTL viewing parts (mirror, ground glass, prism). Google some images of the first F and the SP, and you'll see how much of the SP was re-used in the F.

 

I'm not a fan of the "used bar of soap" squishy curvy SLR body designs. I like the angular A7 or Fuji XT-1 "industrial machinery" approach, and hoped that the "modeled on the original Leicaflex" rumors were correct. But de gustibus non est disputandum.

Interesting and intelligent post Andy - thank you!

[Jeff S]

My post was simply wrong, and not meant mean in any mean spirit.   Had you pointed out my error, I would have gladly acknowledged and apologized for simply not reading carefully....smiley and all.   I didn't 'edit out' anything....just read too quickly.  Shoot me...oh, you probably would if you could.  So bold.

 

Jeff

[adan]

Naw, naw. Ten lashes with a wet roll of Tri-X will suffice.

 

And the extra-low Leica Store price you mention (and someone else alluded to, I think) is intriguing. Although a bit troubling - when companies start jerking around price points, I always wonder who's at the controls.

[wattsy]

Just to clarify - since Ian mixed $ prices with £ prices. S-E with lens is $12,995 (= £8,550) from B&H or U.S. Leica stores as of today. Body only is $10,995 (= £7,233). Tax not included. Since any published price in the UK/EU is going to include VAT, "real" prices in £ or € will be tricky to equate.

 

Yes, I knowingly mixed dollar and GBP prices (maybe I should I have thrown a Euro price in as well ) but it was more about a general direction of travel for Leica pricing recently – I assumed that most people could make a quick mental calculation of dollar or pound equivalency. The £7,999 price for the S-E kit with 70/F2.5 (at Red Dot, for the record) does indeed include VAT so, for US comparative purposes is £6666   without sales tax or around $10k at current exchange rates. 

[mjh]

If rumors are true, the kit lens will be a 50 mm f:1,4 Summilux.

It won’t be the kit lens.

[jaapv]

I wouldn't have thought so.

 

Historically, Leica has done well with the M series because it offered a very different experience in a world of SLRs. However, the majority of M photographers defaulted to the Japanese competition when they needed an SLR. The R series didn't offer enough to make it more attractive than a Nikon or Canon.

Well, the R series did offer some superior lenses. Unfortunately not all of them .

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[sblitz]

US prices are dropping because of euro/$ relationship, can still save money buying in Europe and shipping to US but less so since Leica adjusted the price. This was meant to protect US dealers as opposed to an attempt to turn inventory into cash.