mwilliamsphotography Posted February 22, 2016 Share #41 Posted February 22, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) This is repetious to this recent thread: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/255582-leica-s-m-warranty-issues-and-fixes/ It's also a familiar subject with other S owners I know from private communications or on other photographic forums. It is also a know issue to Leica whether they officially admit to it or not. The S system is prone to failure. In my long and varied experience with a number of MFD systems, and Professional 35mm camera systems, it is more prone than most of them, if not ALL of them. That it is a function of "storage" and "use rates", is also NOT born out in my direct experience ... my new Leica USA CS-45 AF failed with-in a few months. Of three S cameras I've had, two have failed. Of my six S lenses, four have failed. The exceptions to lens failure have been my more recent S100/2, and a not often used CS180 (also counter to the notion that lack of use causes issues). Just recently the CS70's central shutter failed ... whether a mechanical issue or an electronic one I do not know. It is now on its' way to Leica USA then onto Germany for a six week vacation. While I was offered a loaner, I've decided not to risk more important jobs, and will be using a different system for those until I feel more confident in the S kit. That this equipment has frequently failed is irritating enough, but in every single instance it failed on the job with clients and/or models. Sorry, I don't care if someone implies this its an isolated affair because they haven't had an issue. There is enough evidence piling up to give rise to serious concerns about Leica's QC. Sorry for the rant, but this last lens failure during an important shoot really has me steamed! - Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 22, 2016 Posted February 22, 2016 Hi mwilliamsphotography, Take a look here 33% failure rate with Leica S system. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted February 22, 2016 Share #42 Posted February 22, 2016 Very discouraging....and just one more reason why I'm never an early adopter with any modern Leica product. As E. Puts even said recently, Leica customers are often now beta testers. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilliamsphotography Posted February 22, 2016 Share #43 Posted February 22, 2016 Whether lenses that failed and were sent to Leica to be repaired have failed a second time is a good question. If that instance of repeat repair is low or nonexistent, it would go a long way toward rehabilitating my confidence in the S as the professional tool that Leica positioned it as. The S system has become my primary professional tool of choice because of its versatility, handling, and excellent files. However, having a dose of anxiety every time one goes to use the kit on the job is nerve wracking. - Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xiaubauu2009 Posted February 22, 2016 Share #44 Posted February 22, 2016 Whether lenses that failed and were sent to Leica to be repaired have failed a second time is a good question. If that instance of repeat repair is low or nonexistent, it would go a long way toward rehabilitating my confidence in the S as the professional tool that Leica positioned it as. The S system has become my primary professional tool of choice because of its versatility, handling, and excellent files. However, having a dose of anxiety every time one goes to use the kit on the job is nerve wracking. - Marc Not sure about that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Warwick Posted February 22, 2016 Share #45 Posted February 22, 2016 If the motor in an S lens does fail, is the lens still usable by manual focusing? I'm curious to see what back up plan is feasible, given I might buy into the S system with one lens only! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted February 22, 2016 Share #46 Posted February 22, 2016 If the motor in an S lens does fail, is the lens still usable by manual focusing? only!yes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sortvitt Posted February 22, 2016 Author Share #47 Posted February 22, 2016 Advertisement (gone after registration) Not always. One of my three failed lenses weren't able to manually focus after it broke. Turning the focusring seemed to not move any glass at all. If the motor in an S lens does fail, is the lens still usable by manual focusing? I'm curious to see what back up plan is feasible, given I might buy into the S system with one lens only! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 24, 2016 Share #48 Posted February 24, 2016 Yes, it's all anecdotal, my experience: I've had my S2-P for three years and everything works fine. But yes, I'm worried. When the system works as advertised, the files are glorious, but worrying about some failure while you're out shooting is not nice. Still, I feel confident that Leica service is excellent, although obviously things can go wrong and the return times seem to be rather long. I have three lenses, 24, 70CS and 120CS. The 120 had the AF problem. MF worked at that time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted February 24, 2016 Share #49 Posted February 24, 2016 I have bought a used M8 and new M9p, 6 new lenses. kept 4. No issues. Not even sensor corrosion. 9 Nikon digitals and more lenses then I can remember. No issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted February 25, 2016 Share #50 Posted February 25, 2016 Marc you have had a terrible experience with the system apparently. I would be equally frustrated and dissatisfied in your place of course. I don't know that anyone is implying that those failures are an isolated affair here? Certainly I have not. Nor do I have any idea of causes. I have only reported my personal experience as with the other anecdotal reports here. I would take a guess that Leica Camera are monitoring this particular topic? Whether it reflects their broad customer experience or not I have no idea of course. While we were told that lens AF defects would be rectified, perhaps it might be in everyone's best interest if they publicly responded further (just my thoughts in any case). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 25, 2016 Share #51 Posted February 25, 2016 Marc, if a problem happens in such a high frequency it sounds to me like a systematic problem. Have those lens failures also happened before AF-speed has been increased by firmware? My guess would be it has something todo with the speed up. If it is a systematic problem, I am sure Leica is on the way to solve it. If I remember the IR-sensitivity, or the sensor failures of M9 Leica has proved they need a long time to admit a problem but also that if they find such a problem they fix it. Of course its easier for me as a non pro to wait for such a solution. I understand a pro needs reliable equipment right now. I hope Leica will offer a good solution and they will gain your trust again , because I still believe it is a wonderful system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 25, 2016 Share #52 Posted February 25, 2016 Marc, I left the S system and was loathe to return until Leica announced that they will support the AF issue going forward without charge regardless of warranty status. That does not account for loss of opportunity nor inconvenience that it brings when a lens or camera fails. This summer I bought a S 006 and 70 ... the lens was DOA ... AF gone. So I moved to OTUS and D810 ... well I am back but am not relying completely on S lenses. My way of hedging the risk of failure is to duplicate some focal lengths with MF lenses that draw in a pleasing way and can fill in if needed ... V adapter 40 FLE 100 3.5 120 Makro with 16/32 tubes and the 160 Tessar. Definitely a compromise but one that allows you to a least get a shot and temporize while you wait for the Solms delay to pass. In your case a couple of HC lenses and adapter could lessen the risk of a complete washout if a lens fails ... like the 50 II and 100 2.2. Hard to fault the files that come off of the S system ... just a shame that a poorly spec'd part is playing such havoc with owners and potential owners perception of the whole system. Not likely to occur but Leica could go a long way to assuage the doubt that exists by explaining the problem and their attempts to rectify it with some detail as to whether a new part has indeed solved the failure issue. Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
siddhaarta Posted February 25, 2016 Share #53 Posted February 25, 2016 For me the communication is really bad, stupidly bad on part of Leica ... I bought a new system 2 months ago with two new lenses and one used one, until now without issues. My dealer offered to get new lenses from Leica instead shipping the ones he had in stock already, what I happily accepted. I asked him to inquire with Leica if he could get more information on that AF matter, no success. Ok, we know, what the defective part is, but what we don't know: - Is it in all lenses? - Have repaired lenses been affected again (until now I did not hear that) - Are new lenses still affected? - From which SN onwards of every lens the part has been changed? It seems some lenses stay a year or more with a not so big dealer until sold. - As Leica produces in batches, it would be interesting to know which batches already have a improved part. I have e.g. a 30mm with a higher SN (420xx) that left the factory one year before a 180mm with a lower SN (414xx) (you can se that in the code printed on the gray outer package). That would obviously affect the prices of used lenses, but so what … if Leica would be transparent on these issues, it would help to restore confidence, in my opinion. Also they could offer a recall, as car makers … or Mars …. I don't think they are selling S as crazy, in Germany at least, they are in stock all over, including most lenses ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickgrainger Posted February 26, 2016 Share #54 Posted February 26, 2016 I'm following this closely. I really, really want to upgrade to a medium format system, and have had Leica S in the forefront of my choices; but I need it to earn a living so camera/lens failures certainly have me taking a pause. Yes, I have backups, but maybe I need to rethink the Leica brand. I am also very sorry to hear about the frustrations y'all have had to endure, especially when you rely on the tools to put food on your table. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterv Posted February 27, 2016 Share #55 Posted February 27, 2016 Rick, don't worry too much, there are some quirks, but it's really a very good system. All camera brands have bigger or lesser problems sometimes. Go to DPR and you can find these kind problems in every brand-forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravinj Posted February 29, 2016 Share #56 Posted February 29, 2016 I'm following this closely. I really, really want to upgrade to a medium format system, and have had Leica S in the forefront of my choices; but I need it to earn a living so camera/lens failures certainly have me taking a pause. Yes, I have backups, but maybe I need to rethink the Leica brand. I am also very sorry to hear about the frustrations y'all have had to endure, especially when you rely on the tools to put food on your table. Rick Skip the S line. I had my fair share of troubles with it that I eventually sold everything - S2, 180/120/70/35. AF motors for 180, 120 and 35 failed. So that is 3 out of 4 lenses failing. I was charged $750 for fixing the AF motor in the 35mm which is a big rip-off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted February 29, 2016 Share #57 Posted February 29, 2016 I'm following this closely. I really, really want to upgrade to a medium format system, and have had Leica S in the forefront of my choices; but I need it to earn a living so camera/lens failures certainly have me taking a pause. Yes, I have backups, but maybe I need to rethink the Leica brand. I am also very sorry to hear about the frustrations y'all have had to endure, especially when you rely on the tools to put food on your table. Rick For me there is not really an option, the S system is the only one which fulfils my needs in regards of flexibility (speed, small size for MF, weather proof). Maybe the Pentax but its kind of boxy and I didnt like the handling. I have used the S in heavy snow and also in rain without any problems. I am sure Phase and Hassy are great as well, but for me the S is so unique because I can use it like a 35mm DSLR, plus I love the lenses. I have had good response from Leica when I had a problem with their products in the past, so they have my trust in this regard. I dont doubt any of the problems listed here and can understand the frustration of the owners who have the problem. But we just do not know how many people/lenses really do have such a problem. One guy reports 33% failure rate (which is not good at all), I have had 9 S lenses over the years and I can report 0% failure rate in regards of the lenses.Probably the average is somewhere in between. An official statement from Leica would really help IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rofri Posted February 29, 2016 Share #58 Posted February 29, 2016 Skip the S line. I had my fair share of troubles with it that I eventually sold everything - S2, 180/120/70/35. AF motors for 180, 120 and 35 failed. So that is 3 out of 4 lenses failing. I was charged $750 for fixing the AF motor in the 35mm which is a big rip-off. I share the opinion of ravinj. I have the S2 with four lenses. All four failed, one of them twice. In addition, the mirror in the camera had to be replaced because of corrosion. A sad story! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chipcarterdc Posted February 29, 2016 Share #59 Posted February 29, 2016 I have no reason to doubt the experiences shared here regarding some users' unacceptably high failure rates. For those following this or contemplating the S system, I also wanted to weigh in to note that I've had no failures in the admittedly relatively short time that I've been using the S system. I have or had the 006 body, the 007 body, the 30-90, 70, 100, and 180mm lenses; the Contax adapter; and the battery grip. I've not had a single problem with any of them. I do think Leica needs to get in front of this, though, and do so ASAP. Bad anecdotal experiences have a much greater effect on users and consumers than good anecdotal experiences (like mine), even if the latter outnumber the former. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albireo_double Posted March 1, 2016 Share #60 Posted March 1, 2016 I've had sensor read-out problem (vertical red lines, corrupted files) with my S2 - sensor replaced / firmware changed by Leica in each case took about 7-10 days. Also my new 70 CS lens failed (AF motor) - was back in 3 weeks. With the S007, I had the horizontal line in higher ISO shots taken using Live View (addressed through individual firmware sent by email). With the Leica M-P(240) I had problems with irresponsive shutter - shutter replaced (10 week trip to Solms). Interestingly, all 3 Leica M9 bodies that I had used over the years were completely problem free - no sensor rust, no SD card problems, nothing. My dealer (Leicashop Wien) has always been helpful and supportive. I am not a professional photographer, so these failures don't put my job in danger and I feel comfortable with Leica's general commitment. But it still makes me angry when a very expensive/prestigious piece of equipment fails at a critical moment (the new M-P's shutter started to give problems while I was shooting "street" in the Owino market in Kampala....a rare trip to a place that I don't expect to revisit soon). And I don't always want to carry a second super-expensive camera for back-up, for reasons of weight, safety etc. (we often do mountain hikes or community visits - I hate leaving spare equipment in cars/hotel rooms or carrying big conspicuous bags in places like markets). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.