wda Posted July 15, 2015 Share #1 Posted July 15, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Whither a future X1 camera The Leica T and Q developments have largely displaced the X series cameras in forum discussions. This could be because of inherent satisfaction with existing X models. There are no burning issues of availability or malfunction or overdue firmware updates. So here are my thoughts on a new modern X1 camera. I bought my X1 new soon after its release in early 2010, over five years ago. With just one firmware update which improved functionality, the camera has proved just as compact and reliable as I had hoped. Its performance is exemplary. But its younger rivals in the Q and T forms have shown that Leica is capable of designing even better features. The Leica X Typ 113 ticked many of the boxes of desired improvements but with attendant penalties of increased bulk and absence of inbuilt viewfinder. The X1 is truly pocketable and its replacement should, ideally, retain the same form size and weight. To achieve this I would even accept basically the same lens refined, if need be, to match the next generation of sensor and processor. The Elmarit is an under-rated gem of a lens which tends to be overshadowed by its faster siblings. With improved sensor and processing, lens speed is not an issue for many photographers. The pop-up flash could be omitted (I rarely use it) and its body space reallocated to a new EVF as good as that fitted to the Q or D-Lux Typ 109. These design changes would be challenging but I believe are potentially achievable. The classic simplicity of the X1, adopted by many as their first Leica camera long after it ceased production, is essentially the same as the X2 and X-E models and would perpetuate the pedigree of historic compact Leica body design brought right up to date. What do other members think? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 15, 2015 Posted July 15, 2015 Hi wda, Take a look here Towards a modern replacement Leica X1. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
elgenper Posted July 15, 2015 Share #2 Posted July 15, 2015 An X1 with a viewfinder (optical or electronic) in place of that idiotic flash, plus a faster processor? I´d be first in the queue for it, even if it had the same sensor as the original, and of course the same lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted July 15, 2015 Share #3 Posted July 15, 2015 Not quite, but close. For me it would have to feature the manual focus implementation of the X Vario, X 113 or Q with the detent for A, and then marked distance scale (preferably with DoF markings like the Q).EVF is better than OVF here, and the one used for the X 113 and T is more than adequate but for being external. The D Lux EVF has similar resolution, but lower quality than the X/T unit. The Q EVF is fantastic, but would likely push the price too high. Lens speed of f/2.8 is fine, but also needs closer focusing than the X1/X2/X-E are capable of. Sadly the current manual focus implementation would likely result in increased bulk, especially if the lens is fixed and non-telescopic. I would take a telescoping lens in exchange for smaller size Current X-E/X113/X Vario/T sensor is more than adequate and I would certainly NOT want an increase in resolution as 16MP at APS-C seems to be the sweet spot.Oh, and price it at $2000 or less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 15, 2015 Share #4 Posted July 15, 2015 X form factor with a non collapsing lens, filter thread, aperture ring on the lens and an optical finder. Ideally a weather/dust sealed body too (there have been plenty of examples of X cameras with dust on the sensor). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted July 15, 2015 Share #5 Posted July 15, 2015 X form factor with a non collapsing lens, filter thread, aperture ring on the lens and an optical finder. Ideally a weather/dust sealed body too (there have been plenty of examples of X cameras with dust on the sensor). I think the dust on the sensor issue is due to moving parts, such as the telescoping of the X1/X2 lens and the movement of elements in the X Vario zoom. The X Vario seems to have far fewer dust issues than the earlier cameras, and the X113 seems to have no dust issues at all (fixed lens, internal focus). Actually the X113 already has everything except the aperture ring on the lens (not THAT big a deal), weather sealing (nice, but not essential and also lacking on the Q) and of course built-in viewfinder. The lack of a built-in EVF is the biggest failing on any of the X cameras and the T, and is, IMO, why the Q is attracting so much praise. Really this alone would fix most of the X issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted July 15, 2015 Unless a fixed lens is redesigned for compactness, a new X1 would grow into a bigger form and become another X Typ 113. The real challenge is to combine all improvements and retain the original body form; otherwise it loses its unique compactness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted July 15, 2015 Share #7 Posted July 15, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Unless a fixed lens is redesigned for compactness, a new X1 would grow into a bigger form and become another X Typ 113. The real challenge is to combine all improvements and retain the original body form; otherwise it loses its unique compactness. A little bigger than X1, not much. Don't forget X113 has an f/1.7 lens. An f/2.8 would be much smaller. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 15, 2015 Share #8 Posted July 15, 2015 I think the dust on the sensor issue is due to moving parts, such as the telescoping of the X1/X2 lens and the movement of elements in the X Vario zoom. The X Vario seems to have far fewer dust issues than the earlier cameras, and the X113 seems to have no dust issues at all (fixed lens, internal focus). Actually the X113 already has everything except the aperture ring on the lens (not THAT big a deal), weather sealing (nice, but not essential and also lacking on the Q) and of course built-in viewfinder. The lack of a built-in EVF is the biggest failing on any of the X cameras and the T, and is, IMO, why the Q is attracting so much praise. Really this alone would fix most of the X issues. Oh yes? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/247843-dust-inside-of-my-q-anybody-else-with-this-problem/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prk60091 Posted July 16, 2015 Share #9 Posted July 16, 2015 X form factor with a non collapsing lens, filter thread, aperture ring on the lens and an optical finder. Ideally a weather/dust sealed body too (there have been plenty of examples of X cameras with dust on the sensor). You have almost completely described the Q. The camera you describe would have a price similar to the Q. the x series is about ½ the price. Photo gear is all about the compromise. I am not so sure the sensor dust sealed body is all that essential. I have not kept count like you as to how many X cameras have dust on the sensor. The EVF of the Q is truly as good as any OVF I have ever used. on an AF digital camera an OVF just doesn't make sense (RF cameras [ie the M] are the exception). But you are not describing an M- you have described the Q which is as close as leica can come to your ideal camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivette Posted July 16, 2015 Share #10 Posted July 16, 2015 I think the dust on the sensor issue is due to moving parts, such as the telescoping of the X1/X2 lens and the movement of elements in the X Vario zoom...... I have encased the X2 lens in a KIWI tube and UV filter. This will not totally eliminate the dust issue, but it may help. Of course, it destroys the pocketability of the X2, but I can live with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 16, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted July 16, 2015 I have encased the X2 lens in a KIWI tube and UV filter. This will not totally eliminate the dust issue, but it may help. Of course, it destroys the pocketability of the X2, but I can live with that. In all my years of ownership I truly cannot say that dust has been an issue with my X1. So I think a collapsible lens is essential for a compact camera in my view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trivette Posted July 16, 2015 Share #12 Posted July 16, 2015 In all my years of ownership I truly cannot say that dust has been an issue with my X1. So I think a collapsible lens is essential for a compact camera in my view. Thanks. That's good to know. I'm still feeling my way around digital cameras and their vulnerabilities, so maybe I am being overprotective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgenper Posted July 16, 2015 Share #13 Posted July 16, 2015 Unless a fixed lens is redesigned for compactness, a new X1 would grow into a bigger form and become another X Typ 113. The real challenge is to combine all improvements and retain the original body form; otherwise it loses its unique compactness. Well.... perhaps a crazy idea, but how about a *manually* retractable lens, just like the old Elmar 50 (and numerous others)? Could be really sturdy when in use and compact when collapsed, also reviving that old art of remembering to pull it out before shooting... Don´t ask me how to combine such a lens with autofocus..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 17, 2015 Author Share #14 Posted July 17, 2015 Well.... perhaps a crazy idea, but how about a *manually* retractable lens, just like the old Elmar 50 (and numerous others)? Could be really sturdy when in use and compact when collapsed, also reviving that old art of remembering to pull it out before shooting... Don´t ask me how to combine such a lens with autofocus..... I think I would prefer to retain AF, albeit a 'state of the art' version for speed and focus tracking as in the D-Lux 109 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goatsby Posted July 18, 2015 Share #15 Posted July 18, 2015 I think the classic X1 design with the manual focus of the Vario and X113 is a great idea. Throw in the aperture on the lens, touch screen and wifi ala Q and it would be a fun camera, ever without the viewfinder. Would almost be like someone threw the 28 Elmarit ASPH on a X1 size body with autofocus. Wow that actually sounds pretty great! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted July 18, 2015 Share #16 Posted July 18, 2015 I think the classic X1 design with the manual focus of the Vario and X113 is a great idea. Throw in the aperture on the lens, touch screen and wifi ala Q and it would be a fun camera, ever without the viewfinder. Would almost be like someone threw the 28 Elmarit ASPH on a X1 size body with autofocus. Wow that actually sounds pretty great! Yes it does. I wouldn't even care too much about the aperture ring and have no use whatsoever for a touchscreen. Keep it simple, X113 EVF compatibility, X1 body and controls, replace the screw-off ring around the lens with a focus dial a la X Vario and it's perfect. or, how about just a smaller X113. Same everything, but an Elmarit instead of a Summilux. It could probably be a pancake format lens with no retraction required. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramarren Posted July 20, 2015 Share #17 Posted July 20, 2015 I liked my X2's size and weight, didn't mind it without a built-in viewfinder (I used a Voigtländer 35mm OVF with it nearly all the time). If it had the X typ 113 focusing on the Elmarit lens, that would be fine by me. But ... I like the size and shape of the X typ 113 more. And the Summilux lens is in another class. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted July 21, 2015 Share #18 Posted July 21, 2015 I liked my X2's size and weight, didn't mind it without a built-in viewfinder (I used a Voigtländer 35mm OVF with it nearly all the time). If it had the X typ 113 focusing on the Elmarit lens, that would be fine by me. But ... I like the size and shape of the X typ 113 more. And the Summilux lens is in another class. G Agree. I had the X2 and was quite fond of it, but the X113 is on a whole other level and has rapidly become my primary camera. My M-E and M Monochrom are quite jealous of it actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted July 22, 2015 If sensor size and improved relative quality is not an issue for you Asiafish, I can see why your full-frame cameras appear to be redundant. I found that my X1 coexisted nicely with my M9 or could be used on occasions by itself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted July 22, 2015 Share #20 Posted July 22, 2015 If sensor size and improved relative quality is not an issue for you Asiafish, I can see why your full-frame cameras appear to be redundant. I found that my X1 coexisted nicely with my M9 or could be used on occasions by itself. Sensor size and image quality are important to me, but so are portability, convenience and the ability to pass the camera to a non-photographer. They all have their place. As far as image quality, the M-E with 35mm f/2.5 Summarit is better than the X113, but not enough to negate the advantages of the X. There are things that the X will do that the M-E can't, like close focusing, and its also better in low light, both in terms of its sensor's high ISO capabilities and the faster lens. For street shooting I like the 35mm focal length's field of view, but also find the increased depth of field from the X's 23mm lens to be an advantage as I usually zone focus. Finally image quality of the X is outstanding. The M-E is a bit better, but not enough to worry much about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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