The 28 Summilux and Shallow DOF: Why the newfound malice toward Bokeh??

[Exodies]

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I prefer to bring the subject of a photograph to the viewers attention by means of a small printed card pinned to the wall next to the picture, saying something like:

 

Photograph of a dog sniffing a discarded hamburger wrapper (lower left corner).

Please ignore the naked lady, burning aeroplane and dead elephant, they just happened to be in the vicinity.

 

The alternative is to ruin your photograph by including leading lines like arrows in a PowerPoint show, empty spaces (rule of two thirds nothing happening), blurry bits and vignetting to frame the action, shafts of light or colour contrasts to make spotlights. Then you need to issue the viewer with a phrase book of this "visual language" to make sure they are looking in the right way.

 

No. A simple textual annotation is best.

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[thighslapper]

Oh dear. Handbags at dawn

 I think thrashing each other with cameras straps would be more appropriate .....

[Duane Pandorf]

....

 

You heard this here first: there is also a Japanese word for the in focus area, "nukeh" (ヌケ).　I'd like to see that word catch on and people starting shooting every picture at f64.

 

Does Leica make an M-mount lens that stops down to f64?  And would it be a problem if the photographer included both "nukeh" and "bokeh" in the same photo?

[250swb]

Gee, Steve - thank you for that pulpit pounding, sweat slinging, spittle spewing exhibition of blind evangelical rage.  I had forgotten why I had put you on my ignore list so long ago; now I remember.  Thanks for the refresher.

 

If I may be so insolent as to request a favor of you, don't shoot me, I'm just the piano player.  None of the ideas that I mused about in the post which caused you such unfiltered, childlike rage came from me.  As I stated, these were ideas that I had read some years ago that were put forward for consideration by someone else; I cannot recall the author's name or the source where I read his thoughts. 

 

On the one hand you start a thread with a strong preposition and then in a cunning backup plan wash your hands of the statement as it all goes wrong. You assumed it was shear malice (maybe also jealousy) that drove criticism of the overuse of Bokeh (blur) when it fact pretty well everybody has described it as an intellectual stance. If you want to stir the pot with a preposition at least start with something you are willing to defend.

 

We know you are craving a 28mm Summilux from other threads, so stick to your guns and get one, don't worry if your hoped for posse didn't turn up.

 

 

Steve

[edwardkaraa]

I prefer to bring the subject of a photograph to the viewers attention by means of a small printed card pinned to the wall next to the picture, saying something like:

 

Photograph of a dog sniffing a discarded hamburger wrapper (lower left corner).

Please ignore the naked lady, burning aeroplane and dead elephant, they just happened to be in the vicinity.

 

The alternative is to ruin your photograph by including leading lines like arrows in a PowerPoint show, empty spaces (rule of two thirds nothing happening), blurry bits and vignetting to frame the action, shafts of light or colour contrasts to make spotlights. Then you need to issue the viewer with a phrase book of this "visual language" to make sure they are looking in the right way.

 

No. A simple textual annotation is best.

There's something called composition. A good composition includes and discards elements in a photograph

 

By the way, I would like to have the naked lady, burning airplane, and dead elephant recognizable in the photograph as they put the dog sniffing the wrapper in context. Every photograph should tell a story. It's difficult to do so when everything melts into a buttery smooth blur.

[jaapv]

Don't turn this into a personal fight please.

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An artist can take a decision about everything at all that he can influence and that can have an influence on the result to be produced; having visited some exhibitions, I'm not even sure about those two restrictions.

 

A photograph is first and foremost an area usually filled with colors, possibly representing some objects.

[Peter H]

An artist can take a decision about everything at all that he can influence and that can have an influence on the result to be produced; having visited some exhibitions, I'm not even sure about those two restrictions.

 

A photograph is first and foremost an area usually filled with colors, possibly representing some objects.

 

Indeed. 

 

But many have proposed the "no-rules rule", as though it were a defence against a "no-bokeh" rule. This is all getting a bit silly though. People are expressing their preferences, not formulating rules. 

 

Personally, I find the heavy use of bokeh quite tiresome. It strikes me as a cliche. It feels like a special effects trick;  it is the lens that is making it possible, not the photographer's creative imagination.

 

There are loads of exceptions to this, but we're having a friendly (!) conversation about our preferences, so we are of course dealing in generalisations. On balance, I think that falling back on subject isolation by means of large heavily OOF areas should be a last resort, and a substitute for an interesting photograph in which all the elements matter in some way.

 

But then I don't like long-exposure shots of waterfalls either.

[IkarusJohn]

But then I don't like long-exposure shots of waterfalls either.

 

Now they're tiresome. 

[jaapv]

An artist can take a decision about everything at all that he can influence and that can have an influence on the result to be produced; having visited some exhibitions, I'm not even sure about those two restrictions.

 

A photograph is first and foremost an area usually filled with colors, possibly representing some objects.

Well, that puts an end to the Monochrom, I suppose

[pop]

Black, white and grey are colors, too, artistically speaking.

[Peter H]

Since you raise the subject, manu of my serious reservations about the regular over-use of Bokeh apply equally to the regular over-use of B&W too. .

[Herr Barnack]

On the one hand you start a thread with a strong preposition and then in a cunning backup plan wash your hands of the statement as it all goes wrong. You assumed it was shear malice (maybe also jealousy) that drove criticism of the overuse of Bokeh (blur) when it fact pretty well everybody has described it as an intellectual stance. If you want to stir the pot with a preposition at least start with something you are willing to defend.

 

We know you are craving a 28mm Summilux from other threads, so stick to your guns and get one, don't worry if your hoped for posse didn't turn up.

 

 

Steve

"Cunning back-up plan?"  Paranoid much??  The demons that lurk in every shadow are the creations of your own mind. 

 

"...wash your hands of the statement as it all goes wrong."  I come here to discuss photography, not to engage in pointless arguing and verbal bullying; just a gentle suggestion - you might give that a try some time.

 

Oh, and by the way:  For this usage, the proper spelling is sheer malice:

Sheer:  http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sheer

Versus shear:  https://www.google.com/#q=define+shear

 

 

 

@jaapv - not fighting.  Just saying.   I'm done.

[jaapv]

Let's be over and done with this. Let me have the last word on sheer and shear: We all have to fight our spell-checker.

[jdlaing]

Let's be over and done with this. Let me have the last word on sheer and shear: We all have to fight our spell-checker.

Turn it toff.

[Exodies]

I think we have to drop the concept "cliché" as it applies to photographs. With over 2 billion pictures uploaded to the webz every day, there can't be many scenarios that don't appear less than a million times a year. 

[uhoh7]

Where is there any evidence of a "backlash"?

 

Since F64 there has been some tension, I suppose. But I get around a bit and have seen no backlash against bokeh, beyond the typical cynicism of many photographers toward basically all images.

 

A popular photographer at another forum once noted he was rarely, very very rarely, "wowed" by images on that forum, of which there were a great many of wide variety.

 

Personally I could give a S if there is a backlash, since the only critic I try to please is my own eyes. I'm often totally surprised at images I've shot that generate extra attention. My most popular photo ever on flickr was one I nearly did not upload, as it was mehish to me.

 

I go both ways, love fast shots, and love huge DOF, when they seem to work.

 

Because I'm not driven by critique, doesn't mean I don't find it highly entertaining.

 

From time immemorial, complaining has been an end in itself

[Peter H]

...........................

 

From time immemorial, complaining has been an end in itself

 

In your view, is there a difference between complaining and trying to explain personal preferences?

 

I love the fact that more people than ever take photos. I think phone cameras are wonderful because they enable almost anyone to record whatever interests them and share it with anyone, anywhere in the world, instantaneously. This is in many ways one of the most marvellous developments in technology there has ever been, and we're only just scraping the surface of the incredible benefits this new form of communication will bring.

 

But as with traditional language, photography fulfils many roles, and with equal validity can cover everything from the slightest blinks of momentary interest to the most sublime monuments to human creativity and sensibility.

 

Thinking about photography is no different from thinking about literature: discussing why you prefer Tolstoy to Dickens or otherwise, and recognising the genius in both, does not imply that normal everyday speech is an inferior thing, but it certainly is a different thing. So with photography and trying to understand why some photos rise above the sea of unexceptional, yet no less valid, images.

 

I don't think "complaining" quite does it justice.

 

 

 

 

 

 

.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[M9reno]

Let's be over and done with this. Let me have the last word on sheer and shear: We all have to fight our spell-checker.

But the spell-checker unfortunately cannot distinguish between a 'preposition' and a 'proposition'.   

[sdk]

Ignore criticism you don't think is constructive.
Nobody should expect to like everyone else's pictures. 
Nobody should shoot in a way that mostly produces pictures that don't please that body.
Do what you like in the way that pleases you, but don't even expect to like all your own pictures.