Status of the vertical line issue?

[innerimager]

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Hi- I'd appreciate an update on where we stand with the issue of vertical lines occurring in higher iso shots, especially with the light source out of the frame. I'm shooting with the latest firmware, and I'm running into a line, in the same place on the sensor, in many if not all Iso 1250 and some 620 images. Here is an example of a iso 1250 image -

full image resized

 

100% crop of the line-

 

Is this something -

a. I am still waiting for a new firmware to fix, e.g.. like everyone?

b. I should send the camera in for?

c. to learn to live with forever?

thanks a lot....Peter

[RMF]

I am interested in knowing the answer about the vertical line appearing as well. Please see my post in "white lines in images" as I posted the same line occurrence.

 

'innerimager' - Looking at your two pics you posted your line appears in 'exactly' the same place (just left of center) as the line that I sometimes see in my pics at 640 and above.

[ibogost]

General opinion about this is that it is a sensor defect that requires replacement. See here.

[RMF]

If this is a defective row of pixels, it's odd that it is apparent in multiple cameras in the same location on each picture.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/16052-my-replacement-m8-arrived-also-defective.html

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/17131-m8-stripes-but-not-banding-problem.html

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/24625-white-line-images.html

 

The bottom link is from my camera, and although I didn't post a full-crop the line is in the same position as the above.

[innerimager]

my understanding is that rather than being defective "pixels", this is a charge effect in a sensitive component. The high iso makes the sensor more vulnerable, and when a light source activates the channel it "overflows" in some way. The defect would be in the processing component, seemingly the same one on multiple cameras. The question is, if this is the right explanation or not, can this be fixed in firmware or should we get new sensors (or live with it, it's not too hard to fox in post, but a major shoot with potentially hundreds of images effected would be a real drag). best...Peter

[Guest Walt]

To the extent that it may help clarify this problem, here is my experience:

 

I only shoot at ISO 640 or 1250. I have had four bodies and only one showed this problem. The one that showed the problem was fine in the beginning and the problem suddently appeared in the middle of a shoot when the camera was a few months old (and had several thousand frames "run through" it). The problem had nothing to do with lights on the periphery of the frame, but, once it appeared, occured in all images. I am not sure of this, but in my camera I believe the line was not so far left of center (though it was left of center). Leica USA replaced that camera (unfortunately with a camera with another problem).

 

Walt

[innerimager]

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thanks Walt. What was the "other problem" if I may ask? best...Peter

[charlesphoto99]

Leica replaced for me with same problem. Mine was on the right though.

[Guest Walt]

Other problems: dead camera, big dust leak under LCD, intermittent viewfinder display of exposure information, exposure lock (in ap. priority) light never working. Not related to the line (I assume), but not impressive.

[innerimager]

thanks for the info Charles. Walt....wow, that's terrible. What's the current status...new one on the way I hope? best...Peter

[Guest Walt]

Peter-

 

One new one on the way, probably two. That'll make five I've had to get two working ones--if the replacements are O.K. If the camera weren't so basically excellent, I would never have pursued it this far. I do hope this poor quality control is a teething problem, which would not be a big surprise for a project of this complexity by such a small company. I think it's a feat that Leica got such a thing to work at all, much less with this basic excellence.

 

Walt

[RSL]

Five bodies to get two good ones, and this is a "basically excellent" camera? What kind of performance would represent a "not so good camera?"

 

I know I'll take a lot of flak for asking the question, but I've been waiting for these ongoing catastrophes to end so that I can buy my M8. Seems like a long time coming.

[Guest Walt]

Russell-

 

What I mean by "basically excellent" is that the basic function of the camera--image making--is excellent and that the problems I have had are reliability problems. Except for the dead camera, I actually haven't had any problems that have interfered with image making. (I might not be saying that if I did any color.) Eventually Leica has to get the reliability problems worked out too and I hope and think they will. I don't know what percentage of cameras have such problems, but it's much lower than a forum like this would suggest. Certainly one person, me, is not a random sample just because I've had a handful of cameras with problems. Are the problems higher than with a huge, experienced manufacturer like Canon? I'd bet they are, but I'd expect that from a company like Leica--very small, inexperienced in electronics, and very conservative. So, what you see is what you get. If it concerns you, wait it out, which anyone would understand. I decided not to because I like the camera and wanted to use it, which I do.

 

Walt

[RSL]

Walt,

 

I know the M8 is capable of producing excellent files. Jaap was kind enough to upload some of his so that I could play with them in Photoshop and see what their limits were. I'd say they have about the same level of quality as files from my D2X.

 

My beef is with the mechanical and software problems that seem suddenly to make the camera in your hand useless. My favorite work is street photography. When I go out to do that I can't carry more than one camera, and if the camera fails, I'm out of luck for the day. At the moment I'm using an R-D1 on the street, though I occasionally fall back on my D2X which is not an ideal tool for street photography.

 

As you say, I'll just have to wait until the problems go away. I've had a lot of digital cameras in the past seven years, and, yes, Leica is having an unusual number of problems getting the M8 into working order. I've had two failures -- both with Olympus cameras. All of my Nikons have been excellent from day one. I'll be very happy when the M8 becomes a reliable instrument.

[Guest sirvine]

If you're waiting until the M8 is manufactured to your tolerances, there's no point. If had any trouble, I'd stick it out as Walt did. Why? Because I'd be bored to tears shooting a Nikon or Canon after seeing what I'm getting out of the M8. If Nikon makes you happy, then what's the point of waiting for a Leica?

[Guest Walt]

Russell-

 

I also do a lot of street work and the M8 is a delight here--nearly as good as a film M in terms of handling, speed, unobstrusiveness. It just has an alacrity that I've never felt with another camera. Canons, to me, are just unusable for this kind of work--way too complex and awkward. I've also never had a failure that disabled the M8 during use. The "dead" camera just did that on startup. In a few years of using two Canons, I never had a single failure, though I've heard of them, particularly from a friend who shoots from helicopters all the time.

 

That said, I have two M8 bodies so that one can be in NJ while I use the other. This is an expensive solution, and one that doesn't work for assignments, for which I would never go out without two bodies of *anything*. Three M8 bodies would allow one in NJ and two for a job. And I suppose one could elaborate from there.

 

Walt

[jonoslack]

Five bodies to get two good ones, and this is a "basically excellent" camera? What kind of performance would represent a "not so good camera?"

 

I know I'll take a lot of flak for asking the question, but I've been waiting for these ongoing catastrophes to end so that I can buy my M8. Seems like a long time coming.

 

Hi Russell

Well, not much flak perhaps, but I have two bodies, and I (think) have two good ones. Mind you, I've had other cameras where it took as much as 3 attempts to get 1 good one.