IkarusJohn Posted June 14, 2015 Share #81 Posted June 14, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think we all do, Neil. That's why we're here. That said, your comments above made many of us wonder why you're here. A fixed lens is not an inherently bad thing (it certainly doesn't make the camera "point and shoot"); 28mm is a great focal length, and it provides a clear differentiation from all the 35mm based cameras out there; photography is not all about portraits; and yes, $4,000 is a lot of money, but for someone who owns 2 M cameras, a Noctilux and a clutch of Leica's other best lenses, it's a snip. Your comment came across as grossly ignorant, and reflective of your apparent state of mind that you're tossing your Leica gear into a dry box and switching to the new Sony A7. If you've taken better pictures with other camera systems, surely that's a hint that they work best for you? No one here actually gives a toss what camera system you choose to use, but your post was not one of your best. It's a free forum, and you got a free reaction to what was surely an intentionally provocative post. Good luck with your new Sony - for myself, it is not an experience I'm in a hurry to repeat (though Karl-Heinz gets very good results, he's a more patient man than me, clearly). Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 14, 2015 Posted June 14, 2015 Hi IkarusJohn, Take a look here who is going to buy the new Q ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 14, 2015 Share #82 Posted June 14, 2015 I'm not buying one, Neil. This isn't a zero-sum game. True, depreciation hits all cameras. Leicas less than others (check the figures), but they still depreciate far more quickly than lenses. To be honest, cameras and lenses are a terrible investment, unless you buy something really expensive, and even then the chances are you'll get burned. Conversely, if you buy cameras to take pictures (that is the point, isn't it?), Leica cameras tend to be rather better than the others. That's what cellphones are for. The traditional fixed lens camera (I won't say point and shoot) has had a 35mm lens. The same criticism applies to that focal length, Neil. If you're a point and shoot kind of guy (I'm getting the impression you are), at least the Q has digital zoom - you're not really going to be bothered with image deterioration if you are into point and shoot - Facebook and Instagram look fine at 8MP. I'd have to say, I'm rather stunned at your reaction bearing in mind the devotion you have applied to your two M cameras and lenses. If the camera is just a box to you, the Sony really is a cheaper and better option (complete with smearing from Leica wides). Getting the whole thing to work properly is far more complicated than you seem to give credit for. Cheers John JohnI don't own a point and shoot camera. I bought a Deluxe 6 last year and sold it a month later so no PAS doesn't do anything for me. And I am sure you were being facetious when you said that but that's okay I have a sense of humour. I'm not buying one, Neil. This isn't a zero-sum game. True, depreciation hits all cameras. Leicas less than others (check the figures), but they still depreciate far more quickly than lenses. To be honest, cameras and lenses are a terrible investment, unless you buy something really expensive, and even then the chances are you'll get burned. Conversely, if you buy cameras to take pictures (that is the point, isn't it?), Leica cameras tend to be rather better than the others. That's what cellphones are for. The traditional fixed lens camera (I won't say point and shoot) has had a 35mm lens. The same criticism applies to that focal length, Neil. If you're a point and shoot kind of guy (I'm getting the impression you are), at least the Q has digital zoom - you're not really going to be bothered with image deterioration if you are into point and shoot - Facebook and Instagram look fine at 8MP. I'd have to say, I'm rather stunned at your reaction bearing in mind the devotion you have applied to your two M cameras and lenses. If the camera is just a box to you, the Sony really is a cheaper and better option (complete with smearing from Leica wides). Getting the whole thing to work properly is far more complicated than you seem to give credit for. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 15, 2015 Share #83 Posted June 15, 2015 I didn't say remove the lens literally. I'm saying with the Q the R&D for an interchangeable lens Q like camera is almost entirely done. If Leica implements this technology in an M body or Q body, it doesn't matter, as long as it takes M lenses, natively or via adapters. Yes you did - " But nevertheless the Q seems to be a mature product. Just remove the fixed lens and replace it with an M mount and you're done. Leica would be foolish not to do it." The best (worst) you can hope for is an M with an EVF in place of the rangefinder so you don't need the clip on one you have now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted June 15, 2015 Share #84 Posted June 15, 2015 I have no idea what trolling is (I thought it was some kind of fishing thing) and I am definitely not bashing Leica ..........why would I, I have over 30 grands worth of the stuff. I was just reacting to the backlash that came my way. I was once told not that long ago by a Leica artfiliate that when people look a a picture they couldn't give a monkeys about whether it was taken with a Leica or an iPhone.........it's just a picture. Saying that my best pictures have all been taken with cameras other than a Leica........ I just happen to like shooting Leica........... I guess you do too I won't be buying a Q (not that I wouldn't love one, but finances do not permit)....and I wasn't going to buy into this scrimmage, but then I saw this remark..."just a picture".... after all the time, thought, effort, dedication and enthusiasm, not to mention money, invested in photography (and in Leica gear)....this sudden revelation that the end result is just a picture.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 15, 2015 Share #85 Posted June 15, 2015 JohnI don't own a point and shoot camera. I bought a Deluxe 6 last year and sold it a month later so no PAS doesn't do anything for me. And I am sure you were being facetious when you said that but that's okay I have a sense of humour. There seems to be a misunderstanding here, Neil. You were the one who said the Q camera is a point and shoot ... My point of the 28mm lens is that if you want to take people shots with the new Leica Q which most people that buy point and shoot cameras do, then at 28mm they will appear fat and distorted I don't think the Q camera is a point and shoot on any estimation. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #86 Posted June 15, 2015 but then I saw this remark..."just a picture".... after all the time, thought, effort, dedication and enthusiasm, not to mention money, invested in photography (and in Leica gear)....this sudden revelation that the end result is just a picture.... Pretty much................. At the end of the day when someone posts a picture or prints a picture or displays a picture at an art gallery, people looking at it don't go WOW look at that picture it was taken with an iPhone or WOW that must be a better picture as it was taken with one of those Hasiblards ...........in my wife's case it would be "that must have been taken with a Leica as its blur........(I know I will get a bashing for that one) seriously when I take my wife's picture with my Leica she will always say to me as I am getting ready to take the picture 1, 2, 3 Bluuuuuur.............yes she knows how to wind me up too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 15, 2015 Share #87 Posted June 15, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I still don't understand, Neil - why don't you just use your iPhone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #88 Posted June 15, 2015 There seems to be a misunderstanding here, Neil. You were the one who said the Q camera is a point and shoot ... I don't think the Q camera is a point and shoot on any estimation. Cheers John Your right mate I did say that but my understanding limited that it is, is that it has a fixed lens and has a optical zoom built into it just like all the other PAS cameras...............but I guess the fact that it is not classed as a PAS is the full frame sensor I guess..............I don't know? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #89 Posted June 15, 2015 I still don't understand, Neil - why don't you just use your iPhone? I would if I had one :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 15, 2015 Share #90 Posted June 15, 2015 I would if I had one :) I do, and I do take pictures with it, but I still like to use other cameras. You, apparently, do too. So much so, that you've spent a lot of money on Leica gear. In fact, you like camera gear so much, and it has such an impact on your photography, that you're going to store your $30 grand (?) worth of Leica gear, and buy the latest greatest thing from Sony ... Yet, it's just a picture ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #91 Posted June 15, 2015 Mate no point in getting your knickers in a twist over a comment about the Q or about an iPhone. Yes I have a bunch of Leica gear, I also have a bunch of Nikon gear, and it appears I am going to have a bunch of Sony gear pretty soon too but that has nothing to do with whether its a good or bad picture, its got to do with I work hard I like new toys and the Sony a7r2 gets my juices flowing more that a Leica Q.................that's it nothing more. I am also away to get a Apple watch.............they tell the time the same as a rolerflex or a timex.......its just a watch :) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #92 Posted June 15, 2015 Anyway back on topic............I am not going to buy a Leica Q but I have just watched a video and that expert Steve Huff is raving about it, so it must be better than I first thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted June 15, 2015 Share #93 Posted June 15, 2015 Pretty much................. At the end of the day when someone posts a picture or prints a picture or displays a picture at an art gallery, people looking at it don't go WOW look at that picture it was taken with an iPhone or WOW that must be a better picture as it was taken with one of those Hasiblards ...........in my wife's case it would be "that must have been taken with a Leica as its blur........(I know I will get a bashing for that one) seriously when I take my wife's picture with my Leica she will always say to me as I am getting ready to take the picture 1, 2, 3 Bluuuuuur.............yes she knows how to wind me up too It would be nice to think that, rather than "it's just a picture", what you actually meant to say was "it's all about the picture"...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted June 15, 2015 Share #94 Posted June 15, 2015 Hmm, why are my knickers in a twist? So far, you've tried every very bad trick in the book to divert the discussion from your first post in this thread - freedom of speech, "point and shoot", belittling other people's view point and reducing the inevitable criticism to the absurd. I had thought my responses were polite and to the point ... I don't have any skin in this game, Neil; I don't own a Q, a Nikon or a Sony; it matters not a jot which camera you choose to use; I'm doing nothing more than having a conversation with you over what was a very ill-considered post by you, and for which you seem to take no responsibility: At least someone on here has some common sense.................4k for a brick is a lot of $$$$$$$ Let me elaborate on that, why would you pay 4k for a camera that has a FIXED 28mm lens that will be terrible for shooting people and only good for maybe landscape. When you look at what the Sony has to offer for $$$$ dollars less you must be crazy to even consider getting the Q. Anyway I am sure there will be the die hard Leica lovers that will not think twice to splash out another 4K for something that will quickly end up in a drybox Eric I too ordered the a7r2 along with the 2 new Zeiss Blits lenses In the past I and others have spent some time posting to help you with your photography - effort often received by you with ill-grace. You seem to want to develop your photographic skills by the school of hard knocks, rather than actually listening to what people say to you in a constructive way. It's tiring, and now I see not really worth the effort. Good luck with your new Sony. The Sony forum is here - http://www.sonyalphaforum.com Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #95 Posted June 15, 2015 It would be nice to think that, rather than "it's just a picture", what you actually meant to say was "it's all about the picture"...... Yes ma'am...........you hit it on the nail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #96 Posted June 15, 2015 Good luck with your new Sony. The Sony forum is here - http://www.sonyalphaforum.com Cheers John Cheers mate joined them already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardkaraa Posted June 15, 2015 Share #97 Posted June 15, 2015 Yes you did - " But nevertheless the Q seems to be a mature product. Just remove the fixed lens and replace it with an M mount and you're done. Leica would be foolish not to do it." The best (worst) you can hope for is an M with an EVF in place of the rangefinder so you don't need the clip on one you have now. no problem. whatever ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted June 15, 2015 Share #98 Posted June 15, 2015 Yes ma'am...........you hit it on the nail Please don't resort to referring to me as ma'am, it is grossly condescending and, as a put-down, just feeble. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS Posted June 15, 2015 Share #99 Posted June 15, 2015 Please don't resort to referring to me as ma'am, it is grossly condescending and, as a put-down, just feeble. Its not the first time I have heard you using this word condescending on the forum but I actually took it from the Webster's English dictionary and guess what it says; —used to politely speak to a woman who you do not know Sorry for being polite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
platypus Posted June 15, 2015 Share #100 Posted June 15, 2015 Its not the first time I have heard you using this word condescending on the forum but I actually took it from the Webster's English dictionary and guess what it says; —used to politely speak to a woman who you do not know Sorry for being polite I am impressed by your memory skills and flattered as well......however, as IkarusJohn has previously noted, you are not great at taking responsibility for your posted remarks. Webster's English dictionary aside we both know what was actually meant, so own it, and no sarcastic apologies please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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