Not 100% convinced the MM gives better B&W images than say a M240/Nikon

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

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Neil - After a year with my MM, I was a little taken back at how much it had depreciated in the secondary market. I took a much larger loss on it than I did my M9. And if you do think to sell it, you probably will save $500-1000 by doing it before the new MM is announced.

Art

I have no intention of selling it, never have just don't feel it performs any better that my other line up...... That's all

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[MarkP]

The Phase One Achromatic+  uses a 39MPixel CCD, is still in their line-up.

 

The new 60MPixel "IQ260" uses a "60 megapixel monochrome full-frame 645 CCD".

 

Which CMOS sensor did they use in the new monochrome back?

 

Thanks for correcting my mistake.

I thought the new Achromatic back sensor was CMOS but just checked and it is indeed CCD.

I've removed it from that from my previous post.

 

Regards,

Mark

[MarkP]

Art

I have no intention of selling it, never have just don't feel it performs any better that my other line up...... That's all

 

Would you mind reporting back to us after you've tried the Monochrom with some filters?

[Lenshacker]

More work goes into using the Monochrom before the image is made, not as many degrees of freedom to correct in post. I tend to think about the contrast of the lens before selecting the color filter to use with it. Lower contrast lenses, Orange and Red; higher contrast lenses- Yellow. You can blow highlights much easier with the Monochrom. I tend to use older lenses with it. 

 

The uniformity of the sensor and the image it produces amazes me. The Kodak DCS760m failed as the CCD and 12-bit data showed banding. There is none in the M Monochrom, although I prefer to use slower SD cards in it, especially at high ISO. Sensor uniformity is more important in a monochrome camera; with a Color camera interpolation takes place and things get smoothed over.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Would you mind reporting back to us after you've tried the Monochrom with some filters?

Absolutely Mark..........I still have 2 1/2 weeks left in Nigeria before I get back home and a week after that I am going to Japan with the old lady for 7 days of romance and photography.

My original plan was to buy a new Sony a7ii and take that with a few Sony lenses and my Leica lenses. But since I have just gained some more knowledge about the MM on this thread, I will now still take the Sony gear with me but also the MM with some color filters and report back my findings...............Just Japan isn't exactly the ideal place for B&W  as it is such a colorful place

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

More work goes into using the Monochrom before the image is made, not as many degrees of freedom to correct in post. I tend to think about the contrast of the lens before selecting the color filter to use with it. Lower contrast lenses, Orange and Red; higher contrast lenses- Yellow. You can blow highlights much easier with the Monochrom. I tend to use older lenses with it. 

 

The uniformity of the sensor and the image it produces amazes me. The Kodak DCS760m failed as the CCD and 12-bit data showed banding. There is none in the M Monochrom, although I prefer to use slower SD cards in it, especially at high ISO. Sensor uniformity is more important in a monochrome camera; with a Color camera interpolation takes place and things get smoothed over.

I only have 3 lenses

Noctilux 0.95

90mm APO

21mm Lux

Oh I got that collapsible thingy as well which is 50mm but no idea what size the filter is

[platypus]

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Hi Dee,

 

I've tried B+W Yellow, Orange and Red, and nothing (actually UV) on the Monochrom. 

 

Most of the time I only use UV for lens protection as I'm happy to put the effort into PS for Monochrom files.  There really isn't enough local control in LR or SFX for the photos I want to print up.

 

However when filtering the Monochrom I've settled on orange filtration. Certainly helpful in very flat lighting conditions.  I found orange to be the best compromise with respect to controllable contrast in post-processing (yellow too mild, red too strong for my tastes but certainly very dramatic) and reduction of light transmission. With respect to the latter, orange doesn't slow down too much the lenses with max aperture of f3.4 to 4, but allows more DOF control in bright light for the faster lenses with max. aperture of 1.0 to 2.8.

 

I have bought a set of orange filters so when out and about I can have a most of my lenses filtered at once without having to change in the field.

 

I've tried PL filters on the Monochrom as I thought they could act as a sort of variable contrast filter to darken skies. Although they can work for this, they otherwise have at times given quite bizarre effects on other parts of the image.  They proved much to unpredictable for me (or maybe I'm just thick ).

 

I don't know whether I'd move to a new CMOS-sensor.  The M240 platform is certainly more refined, and it would also be nice to use some other lenses such (and even an EVF at times OMG ).  But in the end it's all about the image, and what I see from the current Monochrom just amazes me every time I use it. 

If, and only if, the mooted new CMOS- sensor Monochrom produced similar/superior results would I change over (and maybe get an APO-50 to go with it ). 

 

 

Regards,

Mark

 Hi Mark,

I think (as with so much else in life) choice of filter/s for the MM is very personal. I'm certainly getting a sense of that reading this thread.

 

Personally I shoot almost one hundred percent landscapes with the MM, I'm working on a series on the Monaro and the Snowy region which  

will ultimately be a couple of books for family and friends, as we are now into our seventh generation here, I thought it would be productive to leave

behind a collection of photos to inform future generations (bit of a cliche I know).....sadly, for various reasons, the generations preceding mine

left comparatively little. The upshot of all those landscapes being that I keep the medium red filter on the APO 50 for the sake of sky detail,

whether it really makes any difference I could not say, I'm not into running tests, maybe it's just talismanic?

 

As for the "new" MM....whenever it manifests I will have to have it....I know I will, come hell or high water. Wont you?

 

Regards, 

Dee

[MarkP]

Just Japan isn't exactly the ideal place for B&W  as it is such a colorful place

NEIL, YOU ARE SOOOO WRONG ON THAT ONE  

 

http://www.michaelkenna.net/gallery.php?id=2

 

I've had his extraordinary book titled 'Japan' for some time now.

It is one of the of the most precious and inspiring of my photography books.

[MarkP]

As for the "new" MM....whenever it manifests I will have to have it....I know I will, come hell or high water. Wont you?

 

Regards, 

Dee

Most likely, and with an APO-50 (unless maybe an APO-35 will eventuate to confuse things although I tend to prefer 50 to 35).

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

NEIL, YOU ARE SOOOO WRONG ON THAT ONE  

 

http://www.michaelkenna.net/gallery.php?id=2

 

I've had his extraordinary book titled 'Japan' for some time now.

It is one of the of the most precious and inspiring of my photography books.

Hay Mark don't you worry about that. I can get better than that...............and I will also make a book like my other Japan book but this one in just Black and White and will call it 白黒で日本

[MarkP]

Hay Mark don't you worry about that. I can get better than that...............and I will also make a book like my other Japan book but this one in just Black and White and will call it 白黒で日本

I enjoyed your Japan book. Lets see then what you can do in your next book 白黒で日本 (I needed Google Translate for that one).

 

If you can do better than Michael Kenna, or even close, I'll be buying an autographed copy of your first print run.

Do you know his work?

[Lenshacker]

 

Oh I got that collapsible thingy as well which is 50mm but no idea what size the filter is

The collapsible Summicron uses 39mm filters; the "Summitar" uses an odd/hard to find 36mm "fluted" filter; the Summar uses 34mm filters; the Elmar uses 19mm filters. 

 

You will find the effort very rewarding, the effort being to look at the color world and it visualize it in monochrome before taking the picture. 

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Thanks again Lenshaker after googling you comments its the collapsible Summicron that I have so have ordered a 39mm yellow filter

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

This is what I ordered

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[250swb]

You might as well have said that in Chinese ...................as I have no idea what you are talking about  What's my website got to do with anything?

 

Well, you've anointed yourself as an 'artist', I suppose like I may just as well anoint myself as an 'engineer' or any other occupation I have no formal qualifications for. And, other than formal qualifications, being an 'artist' requires a work ethic, or a process of discovery a little beyond asking what would make your pictures better. So if post processing is just too much work, all I ask is what makes you an artist and why is a filter going to help?

 

Steve

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Well, you've anointed yourself as an 'artist', I suppose like I may just as well anoint myself as an 'engineer' or any other occupation I have no formal qualifications for. And, other than formal qualifications, being an 'artist' requires a work ethic, or a process of discovery a little beyond asking what would make your pictures better. So if post processing is just too much work, all I ask is what makes you an artist and why is a filter going to help?

 

Steve

I don't recall asking anyone for advice on making my pictures look better..............I like them the way they are.

You can google "post processing videos"  there are bunches of them that can help you with your post processing................that's what I did to help myself become a better artist

I have no ideas about filters as I have never used them except for GND filters...............you would be better off asking Lenshaker he has used a bunch of them ................saying that if you look at # 74 you will see I have just ordered some so check back in June and you will be able to buy my book 白黒で日本 that will have a bunch of pictures of Japan taken with the monochrom and all taken with one of those yellow thingies screwed onto the front (reminds me to make sure I pack my matching yellow jumper) 

Yaw'll Have a great day

[Printmaker]

Hi Dee,

I have bought a set of orange filters so when out and about I can have a most of my lenses filtered at once without having to change in the field.

 

Regards,

Mark

 

 

I've done the same but am now finding that the orange filter is not giving me enough separation between clouds and sky. Living in the tropics, clouds close to the horizon pick up the blue from the ocean and photograph a darker gray than I'd like when using the orange filter. I plan on experimenting with yellow(for lighter skies) and red (for darker skies) to see which one gives me more separation. It may turn out that neither one works.

I see you live in Oz. Have you experienced this?

[platypus]

 

I've done the same but am now finding that the orange filter is not giving me enough separation between clouds and sky. Living in the tropics, clouds close to the horizon pick up the blue from the ocean and photograph a darker gray than I'd like when using the orange filter. I plan on experimenting with yellow(for lighter skies) and red (for darker skies) to see which one gives me more separation. It may turn out that neither one works.

I see you live in Oz. Have you experienced this?

 

Hi, I realise this was a question for Mark, but to add my two cents worth.....when I first got the MM, a year and a half ago now, I tried yellow,

orange, medium red and dark red filters on the APO50, and finally settled for the medium red as being the best compromise for sky detail, while still not losing too much

in the way of stops (as I hate tripods and I'm looking for as much dof as possible). However I've found that the difference between the filters is not huge and the

skies will always require some judicious work in post processing. Our Australian light is very contrasty and the skies can all too easily be a complete wipeout, particularly

if there is no cloud available to give at least some definition, just a blazing blue! 

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Dee....... I guess we probably get the same here in KL and Phuket. Anyway thanks for the info on the filters I just ordered some yellow/orange ones will see how I get on with them

[Lenshacker]

This is a typical result with the Red filter on a nice Winter day,

 

Mt_vernon_side1 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Another, Spring day,

 

L1001288 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Blue sky and white clouds. If the sky is hazy, you will not get as much contrast.

 

Gunston Hall, M Monochrom by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

Orange filter, hazy day. The Red would have improved things a bit. This is where Infrared cameras tend to be more effective. "In the day" of film photography 101, the Yellow filter was to match the scene to how the eye would perceive it, Orange to exaggerate, and Red for Drama.

 

Use filters to get the picture as close to the final image as you can; post-process for the final result. All of the above shots are straight LR exports to JPEG, no adjustments made for exposure/contrast. I do know how to use LR, Photoshop, Photostyler, and write my own software for image processing. I just prefer doing as much as possible optically. 

 

On clouds picking up the Blue in the sky: I would be tempted to try a Polarizer with the Color filter.