jaapv Posted March 30, 2015 Share #21 Posted March 30, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Those are certainly not shutter scratches - they would have to be straight vertical - nor do they really look like cleaning scratches, those tend to be relatively straight and not a curve like the lower right one( just try and move a swab in that curve - at least it is rather akward), so that leads to a provisional conclusion that we are seeing corrosion here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 30, 2015 Posted March 30, 2015 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Potential sensor scratch issue?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bernie.lcf Posted March 30, 2015 Share #22 Posted March 30, 2015 Thanks for this response, it was very helpful. I agree that the top line appears to be a scratch, at least it's relatively straight. What do you think of the mess of things on the bottom right? Well, normally the sensor cleaning vendors will tell you: wipe from left to right and then from right to left with the other side of the cleaning tool (has two sides). The cleaning tool should be more or less the height of the sensor - consequently there are different versions for APS-C (the big lot out there), APS-H (the M8) and full frame (M9, etc.) - of course for tiny sensors as well, such as Olympus, Nikon 1 etc. However, not very many cameras actually use APS-H. I can only think of Canon 1D and the M8. So, if someone only has a significantly smaller tool (such as: self made), he would have to wipe the sensor multiple times. This is exactly what the instructions tell you not to do. The cleaning tool has two sides, each side should touch the sensor once. If you touch the sensor twice, you risk wiping the sensor with cloth that has particles on it that may scratch the sensor. In summary: a straight line might mean that somebody wiped with a dirty tool. The circular or bend scratches on your sensor are in the corners, which suggest that people were not wiping edge to edge (like it says in the instructions: wipe left to right, lift up the tool, turn the tool around and wipe right to left with the other side) but turned the tool around in a circular motion on the sensor to go back. I hope what I said makes sense. If your sensor is really scratched and it was done by sensor cleaning, then the person did not follow the instructions and did not do a good job. I'd also like to stress that by own experience it is actually not that easy to scratch sensor glass. Normal dust won't do. Will need to be sand and there needs to be significant pressure. In the end, these are all speculations and I am not sure if this is any help. As I said before. If you want to avoid having to pay the money, get your camera back and either avoid small apertures or use Photoshop to clean up. Use a blowing tool to get rid of the other stuff on your sensor (dirty sensors are quite common, by the way... and telling by own experience: having a sensor cleaning ultrasonic device does not avoid sensor dust entirely. You still end up having to do some cleaning). There is a chance that your M9 sensor will one day show corrosion. If this happens, you can have the sensor replaced for free by Leica - no hard feelings and nobody to suggest that either side is cheating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 30, 2015 Share #23 Posted March 30, 2015 Have you taken this up with the retailer you bought the camera from? If you are certain that the sensor hasn't been touched since new, and if Leica are definite that this isn't corrosion, then I can only assume that the dealer 'cleaned' the sensor before selling you the camera - maybe they had taken it out of the box to show to other customers etc. You should have redress against them in this situation - put pressure on the dealer and they may help in getting Leica to agree to do a free swap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Louis Marit Posted March 31, 2015 Share #24 Posted March 31, 2015 It also manifests as a series of small dots in a line that can resemble a scratch (the line in the blog photo is admittedly significantly sharper than the line that afflicted my Monochrom but it is difficult to tell from screen grabs, etc.). The "scratch" form of corrosion seems to be more common on the Monochrom for some reason. I had the "scratch" form of corrosion on my monochrom. The sensor was replaced without question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremiahrogers Posted April 1, 2015 Share #25 Posted April 1, 2015 Have you taken this up with the retailer you bought the camera from? If you are certain that the sensor hasn't been touched since new, and if Leica are definite that this isn't corrosion, then I can only assume that the dealer 'cleaned' the sensor before selling you the camera - maybe they had taken it out of the box to show to other customers etc. You should have redress against them in this situation - put pressure on the dealer and they may help in getting Leica to agree to do a free swap. Small shop in Osaka, not much English spoken. Likely they would remember the American backpacker who came in and bought an ME... It can't happen too often so I could try. However to their credit I wasn't allowed to shoot a single frame until the camera was paid for. So it seems unlikely that they were goofing around. Japanese camera stores have always been highest in quality in my experience. I purchased a "bad condition" 50 Summicron from another store in Kyoto. In the USA it was appraised as good condition in NYC and I got almost all my money back as a trade in. I was shocked. Brief correspondence with several credible photographers makes me think this will get resolved eventually. Those nonlinear marks at bottom right, one postulated that the shutter movement is not actually perfectly linear and pivots a bit so they could be caused by movement. It's mostly curious tnat the lines are nonlinear and parallel. It's unfortunate all around. Had I known what I know today I would have blown the sensor clean regularly and done regular corrosion checks. For me I'm likely out of the digital Leica market for a while. I plan to sell this and potentially buy an M6 or wait 1-2 years for the upcoming digital rangefinders from Konost. Finally, blog updated last night to better reflect the current uncertainty. Thank you for your help everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 1, 2015 Share #26 Posted April 1, 2015 Waiting for vaporware is singularly unproductive. I’ll believe in Konost when I see it. I have seen too many of these projects appearing and disappearing in many fields. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremiahrogers Posted April 1, 2015 Share #27 Posted April 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Waiting for vaporware is singularly unproductive. I’ll believe in Konost when I see it. I have seen too many of these projects appearing and disappearing in many fields. Good point. I haven't been around rangefinder areas long enough to see these come and go. Given that I tend to shoot stopped down, and given that I tend to shoot 28mm, two of the biggest reasons for a Leica Rangefinder aren't there for me anymore (good wide open performance and seeing outside the frame lines). Along with my current location and plans to be further and further out in the sticks going forward I think using mostly off the shelf hardware is best. P.S. Tried a 28mm Leica R lens on my Canon 6D a few weeks ago in Bangkok and really loved the feeling in the hands and the optical performance. The actual film Leica R was quite nice as well (but *very* loud). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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