Mauribix Posted May 15, 2007 Share #1 Posted May 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi to you dear leica m8 user, here it comes the problem! Does anyone who use the same combo (M8+28 summicron asph) has tyhe same problem that i've got? Since I bought the M8, I noticed a problem with all the objects with reflections like crystal, glass, brilliants, diamonds or simply chrome parts. So, when I shot these objects, at any aperture from F2 to F16, the pictures show me magnificent Chromatic Aberrations! No way to remove 'em. I bought a second 28mm 'cron , thinking of mine somehow badly made, and i was incredibly astonished when i saw the same problem! I tried to use the new firmware: no way to solve the problem. I made everything possible, with no positive results. The fact is that with all my other lenses this problem doesn't shows up! I have a summicron c 40mm, a "Nano" 90mm elmar, a summicron 35 pre-asph and a 15mm cv ASPH, none of these makes the same problem as the 28 does. Have you ever had this "funny" problem? I received the uv/ir filter too from Solms, but this is the way so far! You can see some samples in my website MAURIZIO BEUCCI.com - Official web site in the "summicron28asph" section under the pictures gallery. Can you help me? Thanks a lot to you all Maurizio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 15, 2007 Posted May 15, 2007 Hi Mauribix, Take a look here Terror M8+28 summicron ASPH. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted May 15, 2007 Share #2 Posted May 15, 2007 Are you shooting JPEG here? I've seen this before with oversharpened in-camera JPEGs from the M8. If this is from the DNG files please state what raw conversion software you are using. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cam2000 Posted May 15, 2007 Share #3 Posted May 15, 2007 I suspect that you have a "moire" problem caused by no anti-alias filter on the M8 ...... read up on that situation! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted May 15, 2007 Share #4 Posted May 15, 2007 Hi to you dear leica m8 user,here it comes the problem! Does anyone who use the same combo (M8+28 summicron asph) has tyhe same problem that i've got? Since I bought the M8, I noticed a problem with all the objects with reflections like crystal, glass, brilliants, diamonds or simply chrome parts. So, when I shot these objects, at any aperture from F2 to F16, the pictures show me magnificent Chromatic Aberrations! No way to remove 'em. I bought a second 28mm 'cron , thinking of mine somehow badly made, and i was incredibly astonished when i saw the same problem! I tried to use the new firmware: no way to solve the problem. I made everything possible, with no positive results. The fact is that with all my other lenses this problem doesn't shows up! I have a summicron c 40mm, a "Nano" 90mm elmar, a summicron 35 pre-asph and a 15mm cv ASPH, none of these makes the same problem as the 28 does. Have you ever had this "funny" problem? I received the uv/ir filter too from Solms, but this is the way so far! You can see some samples in my website MAURIZIO BEUCCI.com - Official web site in the "summicron28asph" section under the pictures gallery. Can you help me? Thanks a lot to you all Maurizio Maurizio, Ciao. The examples you have posted are very OOF, can you post something else that is 100% crop of something with good focus? Try taking a shot of a room with some halogen lights in it. And have a look at this thread to see if it is the same sort of problem: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/digital-forum/18949-end-world-we-know.html Best Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_tanaka Posted May 15, 2007 Share #5 Posted May 15, 2007 I agree with Tim. Sharper images will be more useful for feedback on this topic. I do not see any "chromatic aberration" problems. Looking at the wristwatch detail I do, however, see a problem that's common to the M8 and to Kodak sensors. It's sometimes called "sensor ringing" and appears in areas of high-contrast,such as boundaries around bright highlights. All sensors can exhibit this problem, although my Canons have really managed to keep it to a minimum. The Kodak sensor in the M8 seems highly susceptible to the problem, rather like their consumer p&s cameras. In situations where this has appeared and I wanted to salvage the image I have sometime had success with Lightroom's (and CS3's) lens distortion (C/A) correction. But sometimes I've had to create a new layer in Photoshop that desaturated red (which is always the Kodak ring color). I then use a mask to carefully apply the layer to the image. A big pain. My only advice is to underexpose scenes (with your M8) that feature bright highlights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted May 15, 2007 Share #6 Posted May 15, 2007 This kind of artifact drives me nuts...it renders specular highlights like the old video cameras from the 1980s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share #7 Posted May 15, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi guys, (ciao a tutti ) thanks to you for you tips & tricks. Sorry for those OOF pictures, but they were the only that I was carrying with me in my pendrive, I will attach some more pictures soon. I had a doubt as soon as i read your posts: I know that kodak sensors do this kind of problem often on M8, but why only with Summicron 28asph on my camera? (x wattsy: those are native m8 JPG, I made some dng shots and converted 'em with both Phase One LE and Adobe Lightroom, the problem remains, even if somehow "masked"). again: thanks tim and ken, if the problem is what you have described, do I have to surrender? Today as soon as could, I went to the Leica Dealer... we have test a new M8 camera and this is the result: M8+ cron28 asph = the mentioned problem (again) M8+ elmar28 asph new = no problem (or anyway really impossible to see if it was there..) M8+ noctilux50 new = no problem even at f1 I couldn't try the 24mm elmarit, does anyone did it? I know that the 28cron seems to be one of the brightest lens, but is the noctilux worse than 28cron about brightness?I don't believe it... i don't want to believe! and last but not least, the problem shows up at any aperture with the 28'cron, but why the problem doesn't show up with the new 28elmarit? an almost 2/3 cheaper lens than 'cron? all the best Maurizio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted May 15, 2007 Share #8 Posted May 15, 2007 {Snipped} All sensors can exhibit this problem, although my Canons have really managed to keep it to a minimum. The Kodak sensor in the M8 seems highly susceptible to the problem, rather like their consumer p&s cameras. In situations where this has appeared and I wanted to salvage the image I have sometime had success with Lightroom's (and CS3's) lens distortion (C/A) correction. But sometimes I've had to create a new layer in Photoshop that desaturated red (which is always the Kodak ring color). I then use a mask to carefully apply the layer to the image. A big pain. My only advice is to underexpose scenes (with your M8) that feature bright highlights. Ken--enough already with the M8 comparisons to a point and shoot. They are quite simply ludicrous. Canon's cameras suffer horribly from this artifact, and it's not "sensor ringing." It's a kind of CA called birefringeance, according to Canon's tech I spoke to, and every fast lens / digital combination suffers from this in very high contrast areas. Nikon is not immune either. It's not moire, and the M8 is no more susceptible to this than any other camera on the market. If you don't believe me, just search for "purple fringing" or "green fringing" on the Canon 85 1.2L, 501.4, or 50 1.2L (also appears on the 35 1.2L). I need to watch for this every single time I shoot a portrait with the Canons, because of exactly the issues here: jewellry and other high-contrast point sources of light. If you want to minimize this (but not get rid of it) in capture, stop down, and yes, watch the exposure. If you need to remove this in post, there is a very good, very cheap action called Shay's Purple Fringe remover. It works very quickly, and is worth its weight in gold: Color Fringe Reducer 5.0 - Shay Stephens Photography All for the outrageous cost of $10. BTW, this was not designed for the M8, but you'll see that some of the quotes on the site talk about some of the other "point and shoots" that suffer from this, you know, those horrilble cheap Hasselblads and such Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 15, 2007 Share #9 Posted May 15, 2007 Thanks for the explanation, Jamie. I retract the slur about CA on my poor Biogon 21. And multiple thanks for the software tip! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorp Posted May 15, 2007 Share #10 Posted May 15, 2007 Hi Maurizio, this is what I got from a Zeiss Biogon T* 2,0/35mm ZM - also not very pretty. M8 1.092 - 100% crop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted May 16, 2007 Share #11 Posted May 16, 2007 Bart--nope, not pretty. But a very quick fix in Photoshop with that action @Jaap--you're welcome; I love high-value low-cost software like that: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/24245-terror-m828-summicron-asph/?do=findComment&comment=257135'>More sharing options...
peterv Posted May 16, 2007 Share #12 Posted May 16, 2007 Thanks for the explanation Jamie. Doesn't look like the software will work in my PSE 3... But hey, it's nice to know that this fringing can be dealt with easely. Knd Rgrds, Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted May 16, 2007 Share #13 Posted May 16, 2007 Works on a Mac in CS3 and does a nice job too Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/24245-terror-m828-summicron-asph/?do=findComment&comment=257168'>More sharing options...
Knorp Posted May 16, 2007 Share #14 Posted May 16, 2007 Jamie & Guy, thank you both for your effort to turn what I considered a bad shot in the first place in something usable. Mmm I should have given it a try myself first then Anyway as I have a 28c myself I intended to point out to Maurizio that different lenses of make and/or focal length might suffer too to some extent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrism Posted May 16, 2007 Share #15 Posted May 16, 2007 Having solved that - can I raise another problem with the 28mm 'Cron? I have two (please don't ask why) and both have the front of the lens loose where the dot to mark the aperture size is situated. It can rotate a little either way, and I'm sure it has loosened from the use of the lens hood. When the camera is pushed into a camera bag the big square lens hood tends to catch on one corner or another and twist a little, so I straighten it when I take the camera out again. Rather than just the hood rotating, it turns the metal of the lens. Anyone else noticed this and what have you done about it? Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knorp Posted May 16, 2007 Share #16 Posted May 16, 2007 Having solved that - can I raise another problem with the 28mm 'Cron? I have two (please don't ask why) and both have the front of the lens loose where the dot to mark the aperture size is situated. It can rotate a little either way, and I'm sure it has loosened from the use of the lens hood. When the camera is pushed into a camera bag the big square lens hood tends to catch on one corner or another and twist a little, so I straighten it when I take the camera out again. Rather than just the hood rotating, it turns the metal of the lens. Anyone else noticed this and what have you done about it? Chris Hi Chris, the same here, but up till now - thank you very much - I didn't bother me. Not sure if it should and what can be done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted May 17, 2007 Share #17 Posted May 17, 2007 Having solved that - can I raise another problem with the 28mm 'Cron? I have two (please don't ask why) and both have the front of the lens loose where the dot to mark the aperture size is situated. It can rotate a little either way, and I'm sure it has loosened from the use of the lens hood. When the camera is pushed into a camera bag the big square lens hood tends to catch on one corner or another and twist a little, so I straighten it when I take the camera out again. Rather than just the hood rotating, it turns the metal of the lens. Anyone else noticed this and what have you done about it? Chris Yes mine does that too, but it looks like only the ring is moving and not the front lens element itself. Watch the words on the front of the lens, they do not appear to be moving. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mauribix Posted May 17, 2007 Author Share #18 Posted May 17, 2007 Hi guys, Thanks a lot for all your support. Today i have called the Local dealer in Italy and talked with a technician (so i suppose) who told me about this problem. The purple fringin' problem come out with a couple of lenses (usually the latest), and they hope to fix it with FW releases. For now, what i have understood, is that with the *T treatment of the Zeiss lenses the problem is much more frequent. So let's wait... and here is the question: does someone have shots to post taken with the zeiss biogon 25 + M8 or elmar 24asph + M8? I'm hesitant: do I sell the 28 summicron and buy the new Elmar 28 ASPH+ Biogon 25, or spend 10$ for the Photoshop plugin and bore myself in "cleaning" every picture with P.F. problems? ..... For what that concerns the "ring" in front of the lens,dear Chris, both my Summicron's 28 ASPH showed the problem. I guess this is not in any way a real defect... so I hope! Regards Maurizio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sirvine Posted May 17, 2007 Share #19 Posted May 17, 2007 does someone have shots to post taken with the zeiss biogon 25 + M8 or elmar 24asph + M8? I don't have an example handy, but I have noticed an unusually high level of purple fringe on my 28/2,8 Biogon in similar situations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted May 18, 2007 Share #20 Posted May 18, 2007 I'd just add the following to the original fringing discussion: 1) There are several different possible sources for fringing: True lens-based CA, microlens effects, and "blooming", or spill of voltage from overexposed pixels into the surrounding dark areas. They aren't mutually exclusive, so they can occur together or separately and add up. The 28 'cron is a contrasty (IMHO) lens, which means it could generate very intense highlights and add blooming on top of fringing from the other possible sources. 2) My fix for various kinds of color edge effects, including color moire, is to simply play with the "color noise reduction" tool in most RAW processors (ACR in my case). Which basically blurs the chroma signal so that the intense purples and blues and such get diluted into the surrounding blacks and whites, without blurring the luminance signal (B&W sharpness). This cleans up many of those fringes that go in all directions (as opposed to the red side/cyan side ones) that lens correction can't handle in ACR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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