Susie Posted April 21, 2015 Share #21 Posted April 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi J, As has been said above, any of the bodies, if in good condition,will give you good results. The M3 can be better if you prefer a 50mm lens over a 35mm, but to be honest, I'd suggest an M2 or M4 variant if the 135mm is important. What I can never understand when someone asks for recommendations as the 'best' way to enter Leica photography, why so many suggest that they buy a non-Leica lens! If you buy a Voigtlander lens then why not just get a Voightlander body? It is, after all, the lens that produces the image character, not the body. Just my 2d worth. Rant over! Susie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 21, 2015 Posted April 21, 2015 Hi Susie, Take a look here M2, M3 or M4 for a user/keeper?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
sblitz Posted April 21, 2015 Share #22 Posted April 21, 2015 +1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuthbert Posted April 21, 2015 Share #23 Posted April 21, 2015 Hi J, As has been said above, any of the bodies, if in good condition,will give you good results. The M3 can be better if you prefer a 50mm lens over a 35mm, but to be honest, I'd suggest an M2 or M4 variant if the 135mm is important. What I can never understand when someone asks for recommendations as the 'best' way to enter Leica photography, why so many suggest that they buy a non-Leica lens! If you buy a Voigtlander lens then why not just get a Voightlander body? It is, after all, the lens that produces the image character, not the body. Just my 2d worth. Rant over! Susie Perhaps the Leica M bodies are the best rangefinders you can find, the others not so much...besides the Zeiss Ikon. On the other side there is a lot of non Leica but excellent RF glass on the market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted April 21, 2015 Share #24 Posted April 21, 2015 Hi J, What I can never understand when someone asks for recommendations as the 'best' way to enter Leica photography, why so many suggest that they buy a non-Leica lens! If you buy a Voigtlander lens then why not just get a Voightlander body? It is, after all, the lens that produces the image character, not the body. Just my 2d worth. Rant over! Susie Well, I have suggested getting a Zorki to people who have asked on here about the cheapest way to try out rangefinder photography, only to be told that's silly because a Zorki doesn't handle like a Leica body etc. etc. Whilst you're correct about the lens producing the image, the camera is the 'interface' and I don't expect that you'd argue that Leica M bodies are very nice to use, well made, long lasting etc. There is a tactile/ergonomic pleasure in using them which very few other cameras can match. So if one has made ones mind up to buy a Leica body and is on a budget then it's natural to look at other options for lenses, given that new Leica lenses are generally very expensive and many older lenses are also expensive due to the 'collector' market. But, apart from that, it would be foolish to be blinkered and only consider Leica lenses when there are other options out there which offer just as good performance (different/similar look, better, alternative, use what you wish), especially if that were a barrier to somone being able to afford their first Leica. I tested my Skopar against a Summicron and honestly, I couldn't tell the prints apart. Not to mention the fact that Leica have also used other lens designs in the past and rebadged them as their own. Yes Leica make excellent lenses, but the M allows you to select from a huge range of lenses from the Barnack cameras and all the other LTM variants, as well as Zeiss, Voigtlander etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted April 21, 2015 Share #25 Posted April 21, 2015 Hi James, I'm not for one minute saying that all other lenses are below par, just that if one wants to experience total 'Leica' photography, then not to use a Leitz lens seems to be going off at half cock. If one just wants to experience 'rangefinder' photography, that is another matter and can be much cheaper! I just worry that if a newcomer tries out, say an M2 with a Zorky lens, and finds the results are no better, or worse than their previous efforts, they will be discouraged. Please don't think that I am dogmatic about this, maybe just passionate! Best wishes, Susie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpsawin Posted April 21, 2015 Share #26 Posted April 21, 2015 My M2 is my favorite camera. Paired with a 50mm Summicron (ver. 4) it is the set up I go for when I want to relax and enjoy shooting. I will keep this combo as long as I am alive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIago Posted April 21, 2015 Share #27 Posted April 21, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I love Leica lenses. My 50 rigid and my 35 cron asph are amazing and I will keep them until the day I die. With that said, I have a Canon 50 1.4 LTM and it really is a nice lens. Results are really good on film or m9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madNbad Posted April 21, 2015 Share #28 Posted April 21, 2015 The original poster stated a limited budget and many suggestions were aimed at keeping within those guidelines. Assuming after spending five to seven hundred USD for a decent working film M body, there isn't much left for a lens with the prices in the current market. With prices rising on Leica lenses, it makes sense to look at newer offerings from other manufacturers rather than spending the same amount of money on a much older Leica lens which may have condition issues. If the OP is able to find a nice M body with a Leica lens in their budget then all the better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuthbert Posted April 21, 2015 Share #29 Posted April 21, 2015 Well, I have suggested getting a Zorki to people who have asked on here about the cheapest way to try out rangefinder photography, only to be told that's silly because a Zorki doesn't handle like a Leica body etc. etc. That's a good suggestion, the Z6 is a solid camera and an excellent starting point in the RF territory. I just worry that if a newcomer tries out, say an M2 with a Zorky lens, and finds the results are no better, or worse than their previous efforts, they will be discouraged. Actually I've some "Zorki" (better KMZ) that outperform vintage Leica gear of the same era, it's more likely that a newcomer who doesn't know how to guess the exposure or is not used to a RF gets bad results for his lack of experience than for the limits of his gear, whatever it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted April 21, 2015 Share #30 Posted April 21, 2015 Hi James, I'm not for one minute saying that all other lenses are below par, just that if one wants to experience total 'Leica' photography, then not to use a Leitz lens seems to be going off at half cock. If one just wants to experience 'rangefinder' photography, that is another matter and can be much cheaper! I just worry that if a newcomer tries out, say an M2 with a Zorky lens, and finds the results are no better, or worse than their previous efforts, they will be discouraged. Please don't think that I am dogmatic about this, maybe just passionate! Best wishes, Susie Hi Susie, Well the OP asked which of the film M bodies should they buy on a budget of 1K which is not the same as asking for a 'total Leica' experience. The Russian lenses can be very good indeed. I have a couple of Jupiter (from the Zorki) lenses which are very nice indeed. They're copies of Zeiss designs after all. Someone on a budget may buy a cheaper example of a Leica lens and be disappointed because the lens isn't very good - it could be suffering from haze/fungus/cleaning marks which a novice doesn't appreciate. As Cuthbert says it's much more likely that a newcomers learning curve is more likely to be an obstacle than the 'quality' of any lens they may use. Maybe a pinhole lens is best to start with for any Leica user - a level platform! Although I'm sure that Leica pinholes (if they made them) would give better bokeh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friedeye Posted April 30, 2015 Share #31 Posted April 30, 2015 Everyone has a valid opinion, this is mine: Look for an M2 on eBay that has a fairly clean body - like an estate sale camera. It can have a foggy finder or a hole in the shutter curtain, and probably bad shutter speeds. You should be able to buy a camera like this for $400, if flawed. If it's from Japan and they claim "overhauled" - you can spend $550. Regardless - you're going to have to send it in for a CLA and repair. That can run from $200 to $350 (if you need new shutter curtains). BTW, I use Youxin Ye. What you'll get back, is, essentially, a new camera for $750-$800. I would not pay this amount for a camera that claims to be in good shape off eBay -- trust me, anything you buy will need work. But I've done this a couple of times and am very, very satisfied with my cameras. Lenses - the Jupiter 8 ($50 or so) is a great deal, but will probably need shimming. The Jupiter 3 ($250) is a much better lens - one of my favorites. Mine needed no work and is amazing. But it's a crap shoot. I am not in love with old Elmars, as I've been burned a couple of times. Buy and test these at a dealer - don't even attempt eBay. But, personally, I'd go with a Skopar anytime (and if you can stretch for a Nokton, do it). These are great, tiny, underrated lenses. Especially for film. That should get you out with a great kit at around $1000 - $1200. Enjoy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuthbert Posted April 30, 2015 Share #32 Posted April 30, 2015 Lenses - the Jupiter 8 ($50 or so) is a great deal, but will probably need shimming. The Jupiter 3 ($250) is a much better lens - one of my favorites. Mine needed no work and is amazing. But it's a crap shoot. I am not in love with old Elmars, as I've been burned a couple of times. Buy and test these at a dealer - don't even attempt eBay. But, personally, I'd go with a Skopar anytime (and if you can stretch for a Nokton, do it). These are great, tiny, underrated lenses. Especially for film. That should get you out with a great kit at around $1000 - $1200. Enjoy. None of my Jupiter 8 needs shimming to work on Leicas BUT I suspect a Jupiter 3 might, it's a f1.5 lens vs 2.0. Other Soviet lenses worth considering are the Industar 50 (collapsible) and 61, they are usually sharper than Jupiters, but also slower. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sc_rufctr Posted April 30, 2015 Share #33 Posted April 30, 2015 For a "keeper" I'd choose the M3 every time and good ones are only going one way in value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
friedeye Posted April 30, 2015 Share #34 Posted April 30, 2015 None of my Jupiter 8 needs shimming to work on Leicas BUT I suspect a Jupiter 3 might, it's a f1.5 lens vs 2.0. Other Soviet lenses worth considering are the Industar 50 (collapsible) and 61, they are usually sharper than Jupiters, but also slower. I think there's a great deal of variation from copy top copy. Brian Sweeny is the Jupiter expert - I think he used to post on this site - and he did quite a bit of shimming work for awhile. The good thing about these lenses is that they draw beautifully (or, perhaps, interestingly) when they're adjusted well. And they're dirt cheap, so if you get ripped off, like I did on a beautiful looking but abysmal Industar 22, you can toss it and look for a better copy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuthbert Posted May 1, 2015 Share #35 Posted May 1, 2015 I think there's a great deal of variation from copy top copy. Brian Sweeny is the Jupiter expert - I think he used to post on this site - and he did quite a bit of shimming work for awhile. The good thing about these lenses is that they draw beautifully (or, perhaps, interestingly) when they're adjusted well. And they're dirt cheap, so if you get ripped off, like I did on a beautiful looking but abysmal Industar 22, you can toss it and look for a better copy. More than variation from copy to copy at the production I noticed a great variation in conditions after decades of use, abuse or simply neglect, while a Summicron or an Elmar has probably been treated a a precious good by professionals the Soviet lenses were cheap when new because produced in great numbers and were always considered "disposable", that's the reason why most of them are thrash today, but to be honest the legends regarding the incompatibility because Leica mounting and L39 Soviet Lenses built according to Contax tolerances is IMO greatly exaggerated. This is a focus test of a NOS Industar 61 at minimum focus distance wide open on IIIb: As you can see the lens is almost perfect, it came with an unused early Fed3 and it still have a chrome barrell and blue tint of its predecessor, the I-26M: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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