Jeff S Posted February 25, 2015 Share #61 Posted February 25, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Personally I think this new edition is a misstep by Leica. As does Mike J. from TOP. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2015 Posted February 25, 2015 Hi Jeff S, Take a look here Lenny Kravitz Edition - cool, pretentious, or hoax?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
zlatkob Posted February 25, 2015 Share #62 Posted February 25, 2015 I disagree with Mike J. from TOP. He sees a worn-looking Leica as a "legitimate badge of honor". But it isn't. It's just a nice camera, and the paint on them wears somewhat easily. Sure, a worn-looking camera may have been "used hard under grueling conditions". But it may also have been bought used, in which case it's not a badge of honor at all. Or it may have been heavily used in very nice & comfy conditions, in which case it's not a badge of honor either. I agree with Rick's comment, above, "It is art, on some level". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted February 25, 2015 Share #63 Posted February 25, 2015 I disagree with Mike J. from TOP. He sees a worn-looking Leica as a "legitimate badge of honor". But it isn't. It's just a nice camera, and the paint on them wears somewhat easily. ... I agree with Rick's comment, above, "It is art, on some level". Meh, 12.000 more than list price for some "wear"? Its not Art or a Badge of honor ... 12.000 * 125 = 1.5 Million, plus the generous margin that exists on all Leica M equipment, easy 2M profit. They should have made 250, if they _can_ sell 125 they _could_ easily sell 250 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdk Posted February 25, 2015 Share #64 Posted February 25, 2015 Who do you think pays the salary of the R&D guys - at least in part? Right: those idiots, posers and collectors. How much R&D do you think went into this camera selling @ 24.500 $$$ a burp? Right again - nothing. Leica Camera AG has largely chosen to cater to rich photographers in the past 15 years, rather than photographers in general, which I find irritating. Though I admit I probably contributed to that business strategy by buying an M7 0.58X a la carte and an M9-P black paint instead of a plain grey M9. So I'm perhaps a bit of an idiot myself. At least they dropped the price on the M 240 recently, a step in the right direction. But that's probably because the pace of sales of the camera dropped off after the first year or so, when it did sell well, and not out of any desire to have the camera become more widely adopted. I wish Leica Camera AG would become more cost efficient. Perhaps by adopting the Zeiss model of subcontracting lens production in Japan or other locations, Leica could produce higher quality products more inexpensively. For example the Zeiss 135mm/2 Apo Sonnar ZF.2 is better than any telephoto available for the M system, and costs less than any of the Leica teles do now. But Leica Camera AG seems to be a more conservative company than Carl Zeiss AG, and I bet they will probably stick to making luxury a priority over innovation. I will say Leica Microsystems AG (really a separate company now) is outdoing Zeiss on their student-grade microscopes. We chose to by 70 Leica DM500 microscopes for the teaching labs at Harvard Biology, rather than the Zeiss Primostar model or the Nikon E200 model, because the Leicas were so much better designed ergonomically, even though the Nikon objectives were slightly better (slightly flatter field and higher contrast). All of those scopes are competitively priced too. The Leica scope isn't 2-3X the cost of a Nikon one, it's more like 10% more expensive. But this really has nothing to do with Leica Camera AG; except for the name, and the fact that both companies have some of their production in Germany, the companies have no relationship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted February 25, 2015 Share #65 Posted February 25, 2015 As does Mike J. from TOP. Jeff But to compare it to theft of valor? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 25, 2015 Share #66 Posted February 25, 2015 Well, Leica went with that route by the Leica T. Not that production in Japan is much cheaper than Germany. As for microscopes, I think that the main factory of both Leica and Zeiss is in China with only the top end models produced in Germany. Having said that, I have a Chinese surgical microscope which is both in design and optical quality a bit of a Leica clone (read copy) at a fraction of the price. Leica Camera AG has largely chosen to cater to rich photographers in the past 15 years, rather than photographers in general, which I find irritating. Though I admit I probably contributed to that business strategy by buying an M7 0.58X a la carte and an M9-P black paint instead of a plain grey M9. So I'm perhaps a bit of an idiot myself. At least they dropped the price on the M 240 recently, a step in the right direction. But that's probably because the pace of sales of the camera dropped off after the first year or so, when it did sell well, and not out of any desire to have the camera become more widely adopted. I wish Leica Camera AG would become more cost efficient. Perhaps by adopting the Zeiss model of subcontracting lens production in Japan or other locations, Leica could produce higher quality products more inexpensively. For example the Zeiss 135mm/2 Apo Sonnar ZF.2 is better than any telephoto available for the M system, and costs less than any of the Leica teles do now. But Leica Camera AG seems to be a more conservative company than Carl Zeiss AG, and I bet they will probably stick to making luxury a priority over innovation. I will say Leica Microsystems AG (really a separate company now) is outdoing Zeiss on their student-grade microscopes. We chose to by 70 Leica DM500 microscopes for the teaching labs at Harvard Biology, rather than the Zeiss Primostar model or the Nikon E200 model, because the Leicas were so much better designed ergonomically, even though the Nikon objectives were slightly better (slightly flatter field and higher contrast). All of those scopes are competitively priced too. The Leica scope isn't 2-3X the cost of a Nikon one, it's more like 10% more expensive. But this really has nothing to do with Leica Camera AG; except for the name, and the fact that both companies have some of their production in Germany, the companies have no relationship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 25, 2015 Share #67 Posted February 25, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) As does Mike J. from TOP. Jeff Actually this is the standard complaint with all special editions by Leica - and Leica is laughing all the way to the bank... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted February 25, 2015 Share #68 Posted February 25, 2015 ...and Leica is laughing all the way to the bank... Agree, but Leica would get less grief from others IMO if they used that bank account to improve quality control in the digital standard editions. We didn't used to hear so much noise about special editions (even though they existed) in the more prominent film M days when Leica's reputation for quality and longevity prevailed. Now folks are more inclined to be cynical. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 25, 2015 Share #69 Posted February 25, 2015 I wonder if Seal will buy a Lenny Kravitz M ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted February 25, 2015 Share #70 Posted February 25, 2015 But put yourself in the shoes of the prospective purchaser of this camera. He (it's unlikely to be a she) has cash to spare on a vanity item, he wants a Leica so that he can appear 'arty' to his friends. He likes the look of a well used item to make himself appear credible - "yes, I'm always using this camera, I'm a serious photographer" - but actually hardly ever uses a camera and would never get to wear through to the brass in the lifetime of a regular edition. He can now buy a ready made 'used' new camera that makes it look like he's been carrying the thing about for years, and must therefore be a very great photographer. Instant credibility wherever he carries it (unless he bumps into another Leica user!). Appear arty for his friends? His friends would know that he did not have his camera years before every day? Not realy a message of credibility.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted February 25, 2015 Share #71 Posted February 25, 2015 Who do you think pays the salary of the R&D guys - at least in part? Right: those idiots, posers and collectors. How much R&D do you think went into this camera selling @ 24.500 $$$ a burp? Right again - nothing. You'r right i think. I hope that every star and superwealthy buys one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulus Posted February 25, 2015 Share #72 Posted February 25, 2015 I wonder if Seal will buy a Lenny Kravitz M ? Maybe Lenny bought a dozen to give to his friends. Like the Sultan of B. Would be a nice gesture. Or did he get one for free? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 25, 2015 Share #73 Posted February 25, 2015 I guess I don't understand all of the hate and resentment. I am not sure, but maybe some feel it reflects badly on the brand that they use and how people view Leica and those that use their cameras. For me, I don't really care what others think about my camera choice. I love my M cameras and the lenses just make the system. Most of us are here because,we appreciate and enjoy using this very manual optical camera system. From an aesthetic point of view, the stock Leica M cameras are already a beautifully hand-finished and hand-built object. So, I guess there isn't much of a difference, to me, between a stock M and a hand rubbed finish on a collector version. They are both beautiful and wonderful to use. Also, I don't understand why the worn finish isn't viewed as beautiful. It may not be everyone's cup of tea but, kitchen cabinets are rubbed to show layers of the finish through the edges and it looks fantastic. Restoration Hardware sells much of their furniture with a hand rubbed or worn look. Why is this camera different? I bet if you saw it in person, it is beautiful. As far as the comments about it being a posers camera (including my early comments), I doubt many would buy this camera to impress friends with. Few recognize our stock Leica M cameras. Nobody is going to know what this one is and none will ever think that the user must be a seasoned, professional, reportage and war correspondent with years under their belt. Nobody is buying this to impress anyone. Somebody is going to buy it because, it is beautiful to hold and view. Because, they like the look of it. Because, money doesn't mean much to them. But, it won't be me. Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Martin Posted February 25, 2015 Share #74 Posted February 25, 2015 They'll all be sold or at least pre-ordered by now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thompsonkirk Posted February 26, 2015 Share #75 Posted February 26, 2015 Because it's a limited edition, most will go to collectors. And then you get the absurdity of a distressed camera kept in a glass case, forever looking Minty. Kirk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted February 26, 2015 Share #76 Posted February 26, 2015 I wonder whether people will really put it in a glass case. I haven't seen it in person, but judging from the photos it pretty much begs to be used. Two great lenses, and you don't have to worry about scratching anything. The moment you buy it, you're already past that point of worrying about scratching the new paint. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted February 26, 2015 Share #77 Posted February 26, 2015 Because it's a limited edition, most will go to collectors. And then you get the absurdity of a distressed camera kept in a glass case, forever looking Minty. Kirk Jealous much? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fotoklaus Posted February 26, 2015 Share #78 Posted February 26, 2015 I think there is room for the next special- editions: The Horst-Faas- Edition, the HCB- Edition and the Alberto-Korda-Edition. The special tools for making them are already planned and maybe look like this, say the Leica-Rumor- pages: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/240986-lenny-kravitz-edition-cool-pretentious-or-hoax/?do=findComment&comment=2770943'>More sharing options...
Edward Louis Marit Posted February 26, 2015 Share #79 Posted February 26, 2015 Another vile special edition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 26, 2015 Share #80 Posted February 26, 2015 I wonder whether people will really put it in a glass case. I haven't seen it in person, but judging from the photos it pretty much begs to be used. Two great lenses, and you don't have to worry about scratching anything. The moment you buy it, you're already past that point of worrying about scratching the new paint. But that's the thing - it's going to look pristine as new. Shiny paint and nice smooth 'rubbed' areas with no other usual signs of use like scratches, or wear to the covering. Dare you use the thing and get a scratch or rubbing mark somewhere that Leica didn't intend...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.