joeswe Posted January 11, 2015 Share #41  Posted January 11, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) The 24mm is a great lens and I will buy it some day!! It is still on my wish list. Prices here stay at a regular € 1900- € 2400,- depending from the condition, for the last 8 years now.  That sounds expensive. Are these dealer's prices? If you look at sold Ebay listings, the last two sold by Meister Camera (top reputable German Leica dealer in Hamburg) went for BIN prices of 1600€ (excellent condition, complete with finder and everything plus 6bit) or 1400 € (excellent condition, complete with box and hood, but w/o finder & 6bit); private listing auction went for as little as 1200 € (hood, pouch and paperwork, no box) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 11, 2015 Posted January 11, 2015 Hi joeswe, Take a look here You don't lose money on M Lenses, right?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
colonel Posted January 11, 2015 Share #42  Posted January 11, 2015 buy low, sell high ? isn't that what they say  if you buy a new Leica lens at today's prices, perhaps it will go up in absolute value over 20 years but its inflation/IR adjusted value will unlikely go up. Buy to enjoy, buy to get a guarantee, buy to be the first one to use, that should be the motivation  alternatively if you buy second hand you can often sell at the same price or higher later. however you never get bargains from a dealer, and dealer bought second hand do slowly increase in value, but selling on ebay/amazon/l-camera-forum always has to be slightly lower then dealer prices due to no dealer guarantee, and remember the commission !  If I want a lens used and I really want to try it out I will often watch the various forums and ebay for ages to find a good deal. There is always one eventually but you have to wait and look, impulse buyers find this very difficult I have often bought and sold for the same or more, but mostly I sell for a small loss (say 10%).  The reason I buy and sell a lot is that I like to try equipment and lenses but don't have the money to keep such a large capital inverstment  If its something I feel I will keep for some time I will buy new, or ex-demo, but will try and get the best of all deals going at the moment  Lastly in terms of directly answering the OPs question. As can be seen from the above its complex. Basically if you buy new or buy from a dealer don't expect to recoup the money for some time, for second hand a few years, for new a few decades .... and then possibly not if Leica discontinues the lens, its natural value will fall. However if you buy carefully second hand or you get landed with an amazing deal ex-demo, then sometimes you can make money, mostly you can get away with either no gain/loss or a slight loss.  The question is, is the above any different from non-Leica lenses ? I believe it is for most, except for some Zeiss, Voigtlander and highly sought after current DSLR lenses.  Buying from new you can mostly expect a substantial loss. By percentage Leica ones tend to be smaller, however due to the price of Leica lenses the absolute loss can be larger.  rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
skuromis Posted January 11, 2015 Share #43 Â Posted January 11, 2015 however you never get bargains from a dealer, and dealer bought second hand do slowly increase in value, but selling on ebay/amazon/l-camera-forum always has to be slightly lower then dealer prices due to no dealer guarantee, and remember the commission ! I have a different experience. Bought my 2nd hand M9 for almost 600 CHF cheaper than the cheapest offer on eBay (I was looking for two months). It was in a perfect condition. And the dealer is still welcoming me when I walk in Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted January 11, 2015 Share #44 Â Posted January 11, 2015 Hello, Â I think I saw your adverts. ... you need a lot more pictures. Front and Rear element at an angle to show light reflecting from the surface, both sides of the barrel to show the condition of the finish and the serial number, and also one to show that it has coding and the condition of the mount. Â And perhaps a good cover shot of just the lens, looking real good. The other things make it look like you are selling a set (more expensive/less value), a photo of the lens as the subject, distinguishable as a 21/24, from an angle with the finder somewhere less prominent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 18, 2015 Share #45 Â Posted January 18, 2015 If you are shipping from Switzerland, potential buyers should either be located within Switzerland, a very small market, or not in a VAT country. EU located buyers (or in any other jurisdiction with VAT) would have to pay import VAT (20% range) on a purchase from CH which makes it unattractive as compared to buy locally from private sellers as such a purchase would not trigger VAT costs. With other words, besides potentially lower demand for the 21 and 24, because of taxes the potential market you are trying to sell into is probably smaller than what you expected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted January 18, 2015 Share #46 Â Posted January 18, 2015 With the economy in the state it's in, on verge of collapse again, I don't think it's a good time to sell anything like this unless you absolutely need the money. If things keep heading the way they are going, it will be a great time to buy though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted January 18, 2015 Share #47 Â Posted January 18, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you are shipping from Switzerland, potential buyers should either be located within Switzerland, a very small market, or not in a VAT country. EU located buyers (or in any other jurisdiction with VAT) would have to pay import VAT (20% range) on a purchase from CH which makes it unattractive as compared to buy locally from private sellers as such a purchase would not trigger VAT costs. With other words, besides potentially lower demand for the 21 and 24, because of taxes the potential market you are trying to sell into is probably smaller than what you expected. Â Hang on. Has Leica Switzerland adjusted its prices to reflect last week's substantial devaluation of almost every currency, but most especially the Euro, against the Swiss France? If not, for Swiss residents it'll be 20% cheaper to buy from Leica Germany in Euros and reclaim the VAT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted January 19, 2015 Share #48 Â Posted January 19, 2015 Based on my impression the 2nd hand value of Leica gear has gone down in the last 6-9 months. The market here in Norway (a very very small market) was almost "flooded" with Summiluxes recently, and I have never seen 50/1.4 ASPH's and 35/1.4 FLE's sell for so little. But that's understandable when 3-4 people try to sell the same lens in the same condition at the same time in a very small market. Â Luckily I sold my Noctilux at a time that it actually sold. I've seen Noctilux'es and Summilux'es on the market for months without being sold in the last 6 months. My 50/1.4 and 35/1.4 FLE was bought used, but in mint condition, for basically what I can sell it for today. Â I'm currently not using my M gear a lot, as I'm prefering the X100T as my daily driver nowadays, simply because of the in-camera raw conversion and direct wifi printing to the Instax printer and for direct wifi transfer to my iPad for processing and online sharing. But I'm not selling my Leica lenses before I really need the money... The M240 on the other hand might go up for sale soon... I'm curious about the next Monochrom. Â In today's market I would not consider purchasing a new Leica lens from a dealer, when it is so easy to find mint used lenses at very good prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 19, 2015 Share #49 Â Posted January 19, 2015 Based on my impression the 2nd hand value of Leica gear has gone down in the last 6-9 months. Â It fits in my recollection that the prices peak after a new model is introduced and demand drops after 1-2 years to a more natural supply and demand. I suspect its a good time to buy as when the new M260 is released this year or next, the lenses will become sticky to the retail price again. Â That other thing to say is that I feel some of the lenses are a bit too pricey now. I noticed that Leica actually dropped prices in the UK recently by freezing or offering incentives. Hopefully Leica will remain cognizant of this and ensure they are kept respectable. Just to qualify this point, whilst I expect largely hand made products with expensive components to never be cheap, there is a cut-off where enthusiasts, however well healed, will not take as many plunges as Leica needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted January 19, 2015 Share #50 Â Posted January 19, 2015 That other thing to say is that I feel some of the lenses are a bit too pricey now. I noticed that Leica actually dropped prices in the UK recently by freezing or offering incentives. Hopefully Leica will remain cognizant of this and ensure they are kept respectable. Just to qualify this point, whilst I expect largely hand made products with expensive components to never be cheap, there is a cut-off where enthusiasts, however well healed, will not take as many plunges as Leica needs. Â Good points. You can bet Leica is very cognizant of this. Certainly they run the numbers constantly, and might not be against lower prices as a norm if it means a greater quantity of product goes out the door consistently. But with worldwide economics becoming what they seem to be becoming you can't just freeze prices and let inflation do the lowering for you. Tamarkin, e.g., seems to have more used lenses than I usually see there. People trading up, or people unloading to keep the bills paid? Who can say? Leica is very high end stuff. If you sell it cheap you move a lot but lose the allure. At the other end prices make up for lower sales volumes. And some sitting on the fence might even be attracted to it for the high price. I think in-between those there's some kind of retail 'uncanny valley' wherein Leica has to be very careful or very bold. Â Jonesin' for another lens for no good reason, s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richfx Posted January 19, 2015 Share #51  Posted January 19, 2015 That sounds expensive. Are these dealer's prices?If you look at sold Ebay listings, the last two sold by Meister Camera (top reputable German Leica dealer in Hamburg) went for BIN prices of 1600€ (excellent condition, complete with finder and everything plus 6bit) or 1400 € (excellent condition, complete with box and hood, but w/o finder & 6bit); private listing auction went for as little as 1200 € (hood, pouch and paperwork, no box)  Are you referring to the f/2.8 Elmarit version or the f/3.8 Elmar? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeswe Posted January 23, 2015 Share #52 Â Posted January 23, 2015 Are you referring to the f/2.8 Elmarit version or the f/3.8 Elmar? Â The Elmarit f2.8/24 asph Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted January 23, 2015 Share #53 Â Posted January 23, 2015 Unless you're lucky enough to lay your hands on a new lens whilst in short supply (APO-Summicron 50) or old lens which has acquired some sort of legendary status (Summilux 75) you're bound to loose money in real terms. Â I've noticed that even previously owned APO-Summicron 50's have recently become hard to sell at anything more than a substantial discount on their price new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted January 23, 2015 Share #54  Posted January 23, 2015 Based on my impression the 2nd hand value of Leica gear has gone down in the last 6-9 months. The market here in Norway (a very very small market) was almost "flooded" with Summiluxes recently, and I have never seen 50/1.4 ASPH's and 35/1.4 FLE's sell for so little.  Same phenomenon in the US. This may be due to a convergence of events; the move back to Wetzlar (increased manufacturing capacity) and downturn in economies resulting in more product than the market can presently bear.   Unless you're lucky enough to lay your hands on a new lens whilst in short supply (APO-Summicron 50) or old lens which has acquired some sort of legendary status (Summilux 75) you're bound to loose money in real terms. I've noticed that even previously owned APO-Summicron 50's have recently become hard to sell at anything more than a substantial discount on their price new.  There are only so many people out there ready to spend the sort of money a 50 APO or Noctilux commands and once supplies fulfill that niche demand, good luck creating new buyers in a weak economy. A hiatus in production may be in the offing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted January 25, 2015 Share #55 Â Posted January 25, 2015 If you keep your M lenses, you will never lose money on them. You will also never kick yourself for selling them. Â You will never spend sleepless nights wailing, "Why, God - why? Why did you let me do this to myself?? Why didn't you stop me??" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
semi-ambivalent Posted January 25, 2015 Share #56 Â Posted January 25, 2015 If you keep your M lenses, you will never lose money on them. You will also never kick yourself for selling them. Â I hang on to a 28mm f/3.5 Nikkor-H Auto, using the same rationale. So it still works, even when it doesn't make any sense. Â s-a Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan c. davis Posted January 25, 2015 Share #57 Â Posted January 25, 2015 I bought a Hexanon 35 UC LTM lens brand new, boxed for US$870 about 6-7 years ago from a Japanese online seller. Last time I looked on ebay their BIN secondhand were around the US$19-2000mark. Don't quite understand the rationale why and don't really care as I have no intention of selling it. If I owned any Leica lenses (unfortunately I don't) I would apply the same rationale. Keep them, use them and who cares what they are worth. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted January 26, 2015 Share #58 Â Posted January 26, 2015 I hang on to a 28mm f/3.5 Nikkor-H Auto, using the same rationale. So it still works, even when it doesn't make any sense. Â s-a Make sense? Â What has that got to do with any of this?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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