skuromis Posted January 8, 2015 Share #21 Posted January 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) The 6D is built like a toy, though. If you're going to compare then at least compare vs. a 5D Mark III. And L lenses Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 Hi skuromis, Take a look here Will I regret buying the M240?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
colonel Posted January 8, 2015 Share #22 Posted January 8, 2015 I don't use Nikon, but the Nikon 35/1.4G looks rather good on Photozone.de:Nikkor AF-S 35mm f/1.4 G (FX) - Review / Test Report - Analysis Compare with the 35/2 Summicron Aspherical: Leica Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH - Review / Test Report - Analysis In terms of size, there is a big difference, especially when you buy more lenses. The Nikon 35mm never really gets sharp on the corners until f5.6, and not tack. Never enough IMHO for landscape. The other issue is it's contrast which doesn't kick in until f2.8. Leica lenses generally start with that contrast wide open. I must say the 35mm Summicron is not my fav Leica lens, I tend to agree with diglloyd here. I'm not a user of current Nikon products (last one I owned was an F5) so perhaps I am mistaken. I'm more familiar with Canon, and a 6D weighs only 770g vs the 677g for an M240. And my EF35/2 weighs 210g (there's a new IS version...no idea why IS is needed... that is a bit heavier) vs 255g for the Summicron-ASPH. Difference between the 2 kits is only 48g (about 2.5 oz) in favor of the Leica. Not a huge difference to me. As to size, it's been several years since I owned an M7, but alongside my M4 the M240 is quite visibly increased in size, and it translates to an even more pronounced change in ergonomics than the actual numbers would suggest. And with the advent of the Sony A7 series, Leica M no longer seems all that much smaller or lighter than some DSLRs. Where there is still an advantage to me is, excepting the bulky lenses like the ultrawide Summiluxes, the Noct, 75 Lux, 90 Cron etc., I can fit a very capable M kit into a much smaller bag. That makes a big difference when carrying it around all day, and in crowds, on busses/subways etc. You are right, the M4 is already lighter, shorter and smaller then the M7. However it has no electronics at all so its a very different type of camera. The 6D is a lovely camera, I used to use it alot. However it's much larger and quite imposing. I wouldn't compare a plasticky f2 lens to a metal one. Also for me it's all about f1.4 lenses and the Canon one is very heavy and large. Interestingly I used to use the Sigma Art, which is also bulky but IMHO the best DSLR 35mm lens period. Again the A7 has changed the equation a little (folk here will know I am a big fan) but looking at the specs of the Sony 35mm f1.4 and that's really DSLR size and weight. You are right that on balance the extra 90g of the 240 was in the wrong direction, but 50g is due to the larger battery and I think this is worth every g, partly vis-a-vis the A7's battery. Best rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2015 Share #23 Posted January 8, 2015 I was referring purely to the sensor/electronic technology. Its almost impossible to predict but it wouldn't feel good to drop a load of cash on one for something better to come out very very soon. In that case stop buying electronic gear altogether. Something "better" is sure to come along in the near future, at least something that is marketed as "better". Fortunately something that fits one's needs now will fit one's needs later as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted January 8, 2015 Share #24 Posted January 8, 2015 The 6D is built like a toy, though. If you're going to compare then at least compare vs. a 5D Mark III. I disagree. My first 6D still works & looks great after 2 years and over 100k exposures. It looks better than my M9 did after 15k exposures. Paint on the M9 wore off and scratched rather easily. The 6D is certainly better built than some other cameras that people say are well built. Two years of heavy use and still no flaky buttons or dials, no peeling rubber, no loose hot shoe, no loose lens mount ... problems we hear about with some other popular cameras. The 6D is a great value and definitely not built like a toy. And L lenses Not necessarily. The new non-L Canon IS primes (24, 28, 35) are lightweight and great performers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomlianza Posted January 8, 2015 Share #25 Posted January 8, 2015 This is a hard question to answer. I own an M9 with numerous lenses, a D800e with numerous lenses and a number of fuji-x series cameras with numerous lenses. I have used Nikon and Leica cameras since 1969 so I have grown up with Range finder and SLR cameras for years. The leicas have always been my sentimental favorite, but when I look over the images I have shot over the years, the "best" ones came from the SLRs. I am not talking about image quality per se, but composition and subject matter. I can't say why, but it probably has something to do with the comfort factor I have with the SLR and the early lens selections that I made. The leica does pack well and I have never had a failure it. You will find that the investment in Leica is in the lenses, not the body. You may regret the initial cost of the optics, but they will be with you for as long as you want them. The digital M cameras require more attention to technique and determined use. I do not use them in Auto Shutter speed mode. The metering is not as sophisticated as the Nikon D800e, so some thought must be applied before you press the shutter. If you are going to routinely use the EVF on the M240, you might as well shoot with Fuji. I use the Leica lenses on the fuji cameras routinely and the combination is wonderful. You will never regret buying Leica glass, but just remember the body is just a passing moment in digital photography. I still have my Leica M2 and M6 film cameras, but they don't get enough use but once you own a leica it is hard to part from them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dant Posted January 8, 2015 Share #26 Posted January 8, 2015 I'm seriously considering buying a black M240 (the one with the 100 etched into it) They are cheaper at the moment until the end of January. Currently I have a D800 and a bunch of film cameras(none of them leica) I know the Leica doesn't seem as versatile as a D800 but id love a smaller camera to take when i travel. I still want great image quality. I really loved shooting with mechanical cameras and the range finder experience sounds great. Im used to manual focus as I use a manual Zeiss on my D800. I dont think the m240 could replace my D800 for sport and fashion work but for events and travel photography when i dont want to take much gear do you think It would be a great choice? Im torn between the M240 or just getting a film M for the experience (in all honesty id like something digital though for every day and use medium format for film) I'm a little worried about the m240 becoming outdated tech fast. Film? I shot film for decades. Gave it up. M240 is a nice travel cam except it is kinda heavy. But heft is one of the hallmarks of the Leica. It just gets heavy carrying around 3 of them with lenses in a backpack all day when I travel. This is about as good as it gets for the M240 with my work. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1046px-Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1037px-Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/997px-Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg M240 They talk of pixel density. The Leica M240 strikes me as 'low density' compared to the Fuji...but I'm not expert. Just some files work better than others. Leica's files will fall apart when you push em. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1040px-The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg/1026px-Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg If you like manual controls Leica is it. What a shame you have to pay so much premium for a manual cam with a so-so sensor. There is nothing wrong with the sensor for snapshot shooters, but it is second rate in my opinion. If only they made more cams with a simple shutter speed dial, aperture controls and a manual focus ring. I prefer Fuji's X sensor for IQ. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1280px-Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg Fuji X-E1 Fuji has a stupendous sensor. It is so good, I hate having to use the Leica sensor cause I know what the Fuji can do. But, I hate fighting the screwy controls on the Fuji. Fuji must have been designed by a real camera fondler. Focus by wire is one of the worst inventions that have come out of camera design. And Fuji's trend is to dummy down their lenses removing controls. When I put a flash on my Fuji it wont work unless you reprogram the damn cam. I've missed many a shot due to the screwy Fuji. When I put a flash in my Leica...guess what...it works. That is worth $7000 isn't it? But, both cams are fudged up in their own way. So I can't chew out Fuji over Leica or Leica over Fuji. If you got the $, I'd go for the Leica if you like manual shooting. Leica is king of manual and simplicity. Just don't expect it to be a D800. If Leica had out a first rate sensor in their cam then the only issue would be the price. The Leica is not deposable, the Fuji is disposable. I ruin my cams regularly and can't afford to lose a Leica. I use Fuji's when their is danger. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Faygo_Gathering_of_the_Juggalos_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/757px-Faygo_Gathering_of_the_Juggalos_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg Fuji X-E1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badluck Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share #27 Posted January 8, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I probably won't be using it to replace my D800 as i like to photograph motorsport with it. Purely as an everyday carry around and travel camera how do you guys like it? Especially hoping to hear from people who have one as well as a high end DSLR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 8, 2015 Share #28 Posted January 8, 2015 Film? I shot film for decades. Gave it up. M240 is a nice travel cam except it is kinda heavy. But heft is one of the hallmarks of the Leica. It just gets heavy carrying around 3 of them with lenses in a backpack all day when I travel. This is about as good as it gets for the M240 with my work. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/63/Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1046px-Bikers%27_Mardi_Gras_no.177_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1037px-Juggalete_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/75/Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/997px-Amsterdam_no._49_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg M240 They talk of pixel density. The Leica M240 strikes me as 'low density' compared to the Fuji...but I'm not expert. Just some files work better than others. Leica's files will fall apart when you push em. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1040px-The_Plane_Worshipers_vers_1_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/46/Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg/1026px-Orient_Beach_St._Martin_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr._LR.jpg If you like manual controls Leica is it. What a shame you have to pay so much premium for a manual cam with a so-so sensor. There is nothing wrong with the sensor for snapshot shooters, but it is second rate in my opinion. If only they made more cams with a simple shutter speed dial, aperture controls and a manual focus ring. I prefer Fuji's X sensor for IQ. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/1280px-Mosh_Pit_no._7_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg Fuji X-E1 Fuji has a stupendous sensor. It is so good, I hate having to use the Leica sensor cause I know what the Fuji can do. But, I hate fighting the screwy controls on the Fuji. Fuji must have been designed by a real camera fondler. Focus by wire is one of the worst inventions that have come out of camera design. And Fuji's trend is to dummy down their lenses removing controls. When I put a flash on my Fuji it wont work unless you reprogram the damn cam. I've missed many a shot due to the screwy Fuji. When I put a flash in my Leica...guess what...it works. That is worth $7000 isn't it? But, both cams are fudged up in their own way. So I can't chew out Fuji over Leica or Leica over Fuji. If you got the $, I'd go for the Leica if you like manual shooting. Leica is king of manual and simplicity. Just don't expect it to be a D800. If Leica had out a first rate sensor in their cam then the only issue would be the price. The Leica is not deposable, the Fuji is disposable. I ruin my cams regularly and can't afford to lose a Leica. I use Fuji's when their is danger. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c2/Faygo_Gathering_of_the_Juggalos_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg/757px-Faygo_Gathering_of_the_Juggalos_Copyright_2014_Daniel_D._Teoli_Jr..jpg Fuji X-E1 I don't understand this sensor bashing - DxO (not really my favorite testing site, but still..) does indeed rate a few sensors higher, but evaluates the sensor as "the one that puts Leica back in the race" Nor is your opinion a common finding amongst forum members. The images you post are spectacular, but I cannot find anything that would allow me to judge any sensor differences in them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 8, 2015 Share #29 Posted January 8, 2015 Purely as an everyday carry around and travel camera how do you guys like it? Especially hoping to hear from people who have one as well as a high end DSLR http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-type-240/356158-m240-things-i-like.html This is the Leica forum, with thousands of posts from folks who like their camera….M240 or other M model…especially for every day and travel. And many use a complementary system for other needs….the term "horses for courses" has almost been banned due to overuse. The search box will keep you busy for days…or weeks. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr237 Posted January 8, 2015 Share #30 Posted January 8, 2015 I use the Leica lenses on the fuji cameras routinely and the combination is wonderful. Interested to hear more--which lenses do you use on which Fuji bodies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 8, 2015 Share #31 Posted January 8, 2015 The 6D is built like a toy, though. If you're going to compare then at least compare vs. a 5D Mark III. I wouldn't compare a plasticky f2 lens to a metal one. Disagree the 6D is built like a toy (and I don't own one, I've got a 5D). I would agree the Rebels are built like toys. And yet I have one with over 100K on it still working perfectly, and know others with similar experiences. I once dropped it off a kitchen table onto a marble floor and surprisingly nothing broke. I think there is little possibility of an M240 surviving that unscathed, especially if it landed on the top plate or the corner thereof. And my "plasticky" EF 35/2 has held up with no issues for 15 years whereas my metal Leica Summicron had to be sent off for the front half to be re-glued because it came unscrewed (and no I did not ever dismount it by the hood). So there is more to build quality than stereotyping plastic vs metal. In fact, if we accept the paradigm that digital M's get "outdated" in (being very conservative) 5-10 years, then why do we need them built to last 50-100 years as the film Leica's are? If they could put the same guts in a plastic-clad aluminum casting and charge $4000 (new) for it I would go for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 8, 2015 Share #32 Posted January 8, 2015 I don't care how long they last. Its more the fondle factor As I get older I hate plastic more and more, why I went from a Samsung note to a iPhone 6 plus .... Also realized my A&A case is 69g On a lighter note I found a second hand 21mm f3.4 (finally!) so thats the objective of my next drugs heist Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted January 8, 2015 Share #33 Posted January 8, 2015 and finally .... Oh yeah. I forgot to answer the original question. My answer is there is a high percentage you will become and addict and never regret buying the M240 (90%), there is a small change will you will hate it (10%) and desire that Epic-x Red Dragon you always wanted. There are generally not many people in the middle on these things ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Tilton Posted January 8, 2015 Share #34 Posted January 8, 2015 Speaking as someone who's traveled with DSLRs many times and acquired an M240 recently... Right now I am on a flight from California to Florida. In the dinky little bag at my feet is my M240, 50 lux, Olympus EVF, battery charger, 3 memory cards, 2 sensor swabs, Giotto rocket blower, black rapid metro strap, a spare battery, an ND filter, and my car keys. There's room for a 2nd lens, if I move the charger to my laptop bag. The bag fits under the seat in front of me with a ton of room to spare. Never could I do this with my DSLR rigs. Joshua - it seems you forgot your shoelaces. Nice set up, BTW. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted January 9, 2015 Share #35 Posted January 9, 2015 I don't care how long they last. Its more the fondle factor As I get older I hate plastic more and more, why I went from a Samsung note to a iPhone 6 plus .... Also realized my A&A case is 69g On a lighter note I found a second hand 21mm f3.4 (finally!) so thats the objective of my next drugs heist You should have stayed with the Note. V4 is fantastic. Much better built than the V3. Metal surround and everything. See how easy I just hijacked this thread..... Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 9, 2015 Share #36 Posted January 9, 2015 Get a used M9 from a reputable dealer to find out whether RF shooting is for you. Prices are low and won`t depreciate much from current levels as it has the unmatched CCD sensor under the hood. Once a successor will be announced, prices of (used) M240 will drop significantly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted January 9, 2015 Share #37 Posted January 9, 2015 ........... You will never regret buying Leica glass, but just remember the body is just a passing moment in digital photography. This is the important statement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted January 9, 2015 Share #38 Posted January 9, 2015 Keep the D800 and add a 24 120 4.0. Decent enough lens for travel I believe as I have them. It will be way lighter than a a leica kit covering same range. If you are willing to use one lens, just buy a 50 1.8. Also manual focus lenses Ai are around and work fine in M and A. 240 with multiple lenses will weigh more. However if you opt for Summarit lenses they are pretty light. 28 2.8 is wonderful. 35 Summarit is small and light. I use a last version 50 2.8 for when I need light and small. 75 mm and up start getting heavy, but quality is much better than 24 120 at long end at the edges. Choice is yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Lowe Posted January 9, 2015 Share #39 Posted January 9, 2015 I probably won't be using it to replace my D800 as i like to photograph motorsport with it. Purely as an everyday carry around and travel camera how do you guys like it? Especially hoping to hear from people who have one as well as a high end DSLR It's a great every day camera, mine goes everywhere with me. The stealth factor is kind of amazing. I've taken candids of people sitting just a few feet away and they never notice. And it travels very well. Joshua - it seems you forgot your shoelaces. Nice set up, BTW. I had to hock them to buy the Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likaleica Posted January 9, 2015 Share #40 Posted January 9, 2015 I can't seem to find my Nikon anymore, especially when it comes to travel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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