phovsho Posted May 12, 2007 Share #1 Posted May 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Thought I would introduce myself. I'm a serious amateur with a love of all things Leica, Rollei and Linhof. Up until 3 years ago I was living in NYC, where a good income and a sophisticated market for cameras meant that I could buy some pretty cool equipment. I found NY a great place to be a photographer, with endless subjects and no aversion for people taking photos. NY is a place where niches thrive, so whilst the world was going digital I could happily live in my film world and not really notice - lots of great printing and developing at good prices. Have subsequently returned to my home country of New Zealand, where I lost my shutterbug mojo. I put an M6 in the back of the car when I bought it, with the idea that it would always be handy. 2 years later I sell the car, find the Leica and get the film developed - photos of my wife on stage in NY! Since then I've been a little more active. Been using the M6s and MP, but nothing like I was. Part of the problem is NZers seem to have an issue with you taking their photos, so candid photography can be uncomfortable. But I'm back, thanks to a newborn and a growing interest in bland and faceless NZ architecture - not the tourism image many of you might have of "100% Pure NZ". But I'm still held back by an absence of quality and affordable developing and printing which has me thinking of digital suddenly. Which brings me to this... 1. Should I buy an M8? I'm interested to hear from die-hard film types who have tried the M8, whether it is a satisfying experience, mature product etc. 2. How should I be thinking about digital photography? Strange question, but I have some basic gaps in my understanding of what digital photography means practically. Let's assume I know nothing about digital. I have questions like: how do you store your archive? Buy an external drive? do you need to be a wiz on photoshop or similar? do you rely on professional printers or better to buy a serious home printers? Is there a decent book introducing me to concepts like "white balancing" etc? 3. If you go digital, do you go back to film? Again, looking for peoples experience. I have about 5 leica film bodies and honestly only use 2 of them (M6 .85 and MP .72). I also have a large Rollei kit (6008 integral with lots of schnieder lens) and a Linhof 4x5, neither of which I'm using. I'm seriously thinking of quiting the surplus Leica bodies and the larger format stuff and putting it into an M8 and WATE (to go with 21/2.8, 28/2.0, 35/1.4, 50/1.0, 50/2.0 and 75,1.4) Just can't see myself getting any medium format stuff developed and printed to the quality it deserves. I'm sure I'm a common case of "should I or shouldn't I", but would welcome any insists from other afflicted souls on M8s and digital photography more generally. Best Murray PS I promise my future posts will be more focused. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 12, 2007 Posted May 12, 2007 Hi phovsho, Take a look here New member with a dilema. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Shootist Posted May 12, 2007 Share #2 Posted May 12, 2007 I have copies of all images I like, the ones I save after deleting the one I don't care for, on multiple computers and all computers I own backed up, IE Imaged, on a external hard drive. I use Acronis True Image for the HDD imaging, backing up. A good working knowledge of PS, or other image processing software, is needed. But you don't have to be a wiz at it. Especially with the M8. The files that come out of the M8 at just fantastic, that is if you use the IR cut filters for color work. I used a printing service when I first went digital and wasn't that happy with them. So I bought a fairly good inkjet printer, a HP B9180, and am much happier with printing my own. I still own a M3, just sold 2 others that I had and a Leica R4s, and still use it from time to time, just for B&W. And I'm thinking of getting either a M7 or MP. But then I might just buy a second M8 as the M3 with a good meter is all I will ever need for film work. Should you or shouldn't you? Just go out and buy a M8. You'll love it. It will put the MOJO back in you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jager Posted May 12, 2007 Share #3 Posted May 12, 2007 Hello Murray and welcome to the forum! I'd start by suggesting that most of us here are probably a tiny bit biased, towards digital in general and the M8 in particular. But I'd observe that you've a history of working with good gear, and are already familiar with Leica's. You already know what you're getting into with respect to using a rangefinder. The general consensus is that the M8 produces image quality on a par with medium format film. That's certainly been my experience. My personal view is that film vs. digital need not (and should not) be an either/or kind of thing. Film will always have its unique qualities and many of us intend to continue using it far into the future. I still have an M6 and M7 to complement my M8. That said, I have to say that the M8 is such an exciting camera that I haven't run a frame of film since I bought it in January. I'm sure I will, but it's also no question that the M8 stands head and shoulders above everything else in my photographic world. It's simply an amazing tool. Digital provides enormous convenience. I still get a kick out of developing my own B&W, but digital makes it possible to come back from a shoot and almost instantly produce hard copy images and/or web galleries. That kind of immediate result is a godsend to many of us, given how busy most of us are. You won't have to become a software maven to be effective in the digital world but, yes, you'll have to gain at least a modicum of proficiency with several pieces of software. The biggest problem most new-to-digital photographers seem to face is color management. There are lots of good books that explain that. I'd suggest REAL WORLD COLOR MANAGEMENT, by Fraser, Murphy, and Bunting. The basic premise with digital storage is that all media will fail at some point. Which means that you'll want to make sure that any important images are stored on at least two physically separate devices. Most of us use a combination of internal hard drives, external hard drives, and writeable DVD. Absolutely, you'll want to print yourself! Best of luck with whatever you decide... Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott kirkpatrick Posted May 12, 2007 Share #4 Posted May 12, 2007 Given that you have a solid Leica lens inventory, and lots of rangefinder mileage so that you should be able to keep up with a mobile newborn without needing autofocus, I don't see any reason not to invest a small amount more in an M8 body. Calibrate your monitor and spend a little time learning C1 (contrary to popular belief it has a terse but accurate set of help files), which has the best profiles at present, and enjoy the instant feedback of digital. Explore the much more complicated space of prints only when you are ready. scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eronald Posted May 12, 2007 Share #5 Posted May 12, 2007 I own the hi-end Canons and use an M8 a lot. However I think a Canon 400D with kit zoom lens and built-in flash would be a good way to start digital. When comfortable with digital, generally, you can then decide which computer, monitor, and printer you want to use more seriously. There is a serious computer learning curve, as you get better you can do more things. recommend a 20" iMac as a computer dedicated for amateur photography video, and video-conferencing. You'll want to make videos of that kid. I also recommend a small Canon Selphy postcard printer. Edmund Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted May 12, 2007 Share #6 Posted May 12, 2007 Maybe Edmund but he is sitting on M lenses and if not i agree with you . Hell i would just do it and take your time and learn it. Worst case after 3 months you can get all but maybe 400 dollars back by reselling it if it did not work out. Since your familar with the leica film bodies there really is not much difference body wise , the M8 is pretty simple in shooting. the hard part would be with any camera the digital process and learning that stuff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchell Posted May 12, 2007 Share #7 Posted May 12, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Get the M8. It's gives great images. I experiment more because it's digital. I think the instant feedback informs my shooting, teaches me a lot. (But, I keep meaning to practice slowing down and holding myself to just a few shots on occasion.) But, I have driven myself almost mad at times with the computer. There is always a solution. It's usually some increditably small non-intuitive thing I'm doing wrong that drives me nuts. It's getting much better. The programs are getting easier to use, I'm learning, and the M8 images do seem to need less work. I find Lightroom is a big help for 90% of what I do with images. It's very easy which for me is a big deal. Photoshop is huge, complex and 90% unnecessary. I'd be tempted to start with Lightroom, which will allow you to edit, crop, adjust light balance, and exposure, archive, backup, email, and print all in one program. It's the easiest workflow I've found. Many of your images won't need anything more. Get Photoshop later when you're sure you want to work on parts of images, dodge and burn, and you've already become familier with the computer. You can also try all sorts of raw converters, other programs, and plugins. But, Lightroom will get you going from shot to print or web with the least frustration and waste of time. If like me you aren't a computer whiz, get help from a friend or the forum. You can spend hours stuck on something with a very easy, but totally obscure solution. There are also some very helpful web sights. Once you get the hang of it, it's great! I have an M6 which is on extended loan to a friend, and a Rollie 6008 (great camera) which sits in the closet. Best, Mitchell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phovsho Posted May 12, 2007 Author Share #8 Posted May 12, 2007 Let me begin by thanking you all for your considered opinions. Much appreciated. I have decided to order an M8. I will also buy the recommended book on light management. Considering a WATE. Will get all my lens 6 bit coded. As far as computer interfacing goes: 1. I hae MacPro laptop, and a G4 tower. 2. My wife is a graphic designer and a wiz on PS. I personally still find it a bit intimidating. 3. I will buy a quality printer I think I will sell the Rollei, Linhof and probably M7 and M6 body. I don't use them now, so can't expect that to get any better! I'm very excited about this and you folks gave me the nudge I needed to take the plunge. Best and Thanks M Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted May 12, 2007 Share #9 Posted May 12, 2007 Yeah gidday, Mate, and welcome. (Ex-pat Mastertonian here.) For me the big thing with digital is that you've suddenly got complete control over the developing and printing. You're no longer at the mercy of a lab tech who's itching to crack a cold one on Friday arvo and isn't beyond taking the odd, er, shortcut. Yeah, kiwis are a pretty shy bunch when cameras are clicking, eh, and I wouldn't want to get too near to some of the bro's after they've downed a few jugs. Looking forward to some night shots of the harbour from Mount Vic from your new M8, eh? Get onto it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesphoto99 Posted May 12, 2007 Share #10 Posted May 12, 2007 Hang onto one of the M film bodies at least. You may want it as a back up sometime and if (when?) your M8 goes back to Solms you'll have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted May 12, 2007 Share #11 Posted May 12, 2007 Get the M8. It's gives great images. I experiment more because it's digital. I think the instant feedback informs my shooting, teaches me a lot. (But, I keep meaning to practice slowing down and holding myself to just a few shots on occasion.) But, I have driven myself almost mad at times with the computer. There is always a solution. It's usually some increditably small non-intuitive thing I'm doing wrong that drives me nuts. It's getting much better. The programs are getting easier to use, I'm learning, and the M8 images do seem to need less work. I find Lightroom is a big help for 90% of what I do with images. It's very easy which for me is a big deal. Photoshop is huge, complex and 90% unnecessary. I'd be tempted to start with Lightroom, which will allow you to edit, crop, adjust light balance, and exposure, archive, backup, email, and print all in one program. It's the easiest workflow I've found. Many of your images won't need anything more. Get Photoshop later when you're sure you want to work on parts of images, dodge and burn, and you've already become familier with the computer. You can also try all sorts of raw converters, other programs, and plugins. But, Lightroom will get you going from shot to print or web with the least frustration and waste of time. If like me you aren't a computer whiz, get help from a friend or the forum. You can spend hours stuck on something with a very easy, but totally obscure solution. There are also some very helpful web sights. Once you get the hang of it, it's great! I have an M6 which is on extended loan to a friend, and a Rollie 6008 (great camera) which sits in the closet. Best, Mitchell Having your wife as a graphic designer and having the Macs already than really you are pretty much there anyway. Go for it. You need help, were here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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