renes Posted January 1, 2015 Share #1 Posted January 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello, I have made decision to go for leica lenses for landscape shooting, that means selling all of my C/Y Zeiss lenses and other stuff to get funds. I am 100% sure I want Elmar lenses for landscape - I just love its colour rendering. But there is no modern Elmar 35mm f/2.8 nor Elmarit which colours I like too - and 35mm is a focal length I do not want to resign from. I think about 4 lenses which focal lenghts fit my shooting style best: 24mm (24/3.8 Elmar-M Asph) 35mm ? 50mm (50/2.8 Elmar-M II) 90mm (90/4 Macro-Elmar-M) Last two Elmars are collapsible lenses... I never seen landcape samples taken with them... so not sure if they are good for landcape (especialy Macro). Will 90/2.8 Elmarit be a better choice compared to 90/4 Macro if IQ only matters? There is also 'MATE' Tri-Elmar 28-35-50mm F4 lens which seems a good choice too besides 28mm... but with 24/3.8 and 90mm it look also a great set to consider... I will appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 1, 2015 Posted January 1, 2015 Hi renes, Take a look here Leica ELMAR for landscape. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Lenshacker Posted January 1, 2015 Share #2 Posted January 1, 2015 The 4-element 3-group 3.5cm F3.5 Elmar was replaced long ago by the 6-element 4-group 35/3.5 Summaron. The original Elmar 3.5cm F3.5 is uncoated. The Leica Mini brought back the 35/3.5 Elmar, but on a point and shoot camera. It is very good, and is coated. But- would have to be converted to RF mount.The Nikkor 3.5cm F3.5 is based on the Elmar, many made in Leica mount. The 35/2.8 Summaron would be a good choice for a classic-look. This lens is available used, no longer made. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 1, 2015 Share #3 Posted January 1, 2015 What are your expectations for a landscape lens? Equally sharp from centre to edges? Then the asph summicron 35 should be your choice I think, since there is no Elmar 35 indeed and the Summaron 35 is, apart from a little old when it comes to optimal color rendering, from a period Leitz more or less celebrated lees sharp edges than centre Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 1, 2015 Share #4 Posted January 1, 2015 As far as my samples are concerned: - No problem with the latest Elmarit 90/2.8. - The 90/4 macro may need a slight distortion correction in PP. No problem there in my experience. - The 24/3.8 is excellent in the center but softer in the corners below f/5.6 and its (slight) mustache-style distortion may be more difficult to adjust in PP. - The MATE's distortion is easier to adjust but the lens is also softer below f/5.6 in the corners. - No problem with the 50/2.8 v2 but it is too soft at f/2.8 for landscapes in the corners. Now who takes landscapes at f/2.8 besides yours truly? - Don't sell your Biogon 35/2.8 if you have one, you'll hardly find a better 35 for landcapes IMHO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 1, 2015 Share #5 Posted January 1, 2015 Consider the modern Summarit lenses as well. The old Elmar lenses tend to be slightly softer in rendering compared with more modern Leica lenses. You need excellent sharpness for landscapes. Bear in mind that all Leica lenses are designed to give faithful colour rendition. So don't feel constrained to seek only Elmars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 1, 2015 Share #6 Posted January 1, 2015 I would not recommend the Summarit 35/2.5 below f/5.6 (softer corners there) but the 50/2.5 is almost perfect above f/2.8. I have no experience with f/2.4 Summarits though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 1, 2015 Share #7 Posted January 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Last two Elmars are collapsible lenses... I never seen landcape samples taken with them... so not sure if they are good for landcape (especialy Macro). Will 90/2.8 Elmarit be a better choice compared to 90/4 Macro if IQ only matters? Don't be fooled by the Macro designation; the 90 is one of the best M lenses Leica offers. Puts rates it one of the best M lenses Leica ever made (along with the 24 Elmar 3.8 and 21 Super-Elmar 3.4), and considers it the best general purpose 90 in the current lineup. That said, the later 90 Elmarits are fine lenses. Speed and size might be more worthy distinctions than IQ for landscape...or otherwise….but the Macro of course can also do macro. Best if you can get samples to compare for your needs and preferences. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
renes Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted January 1, 2015 Thanks for your advice! Some explanation to put light on my style. I used to shot landcape on tripod all the time with my 6x9 film, so I will be doing it also now. I am already sure I want no other Leica lens for landscape than Elmar/Elmarit for its image rendering that I prefer though they might not be the sharpest Leica lenses compared to Summircron/Summarit. So I try to find best ones - also sharpest - from these line (Elmar/Elmarit). I own now C/Y Zeiss MM lenses - Distagons, Sonnars and Planar - not the Biogon. I am not sure yet which camera I will buy for this aim but certainly I will not afford to buy also M240... I think about Sony A7R or expected new A9, maybe another on. I will make this decision after CP+ in February. I just noted there is Leica R-Elmar 35-70mm F4 Asph , it seems not that big regarding E60 filter and body size (8x7,5cm)... do you think it can compate with Tri-Elmar 28-35-50mm ? ...Bear in mind that all Leica lenses are designed to give faithful colour rendition. So don't feel constrained to seek only Elmars. I base my choice on many images I have seen in the net, and these taken with Elmars and Elmarits ,especially landscape, impressed me most. I wish to see more landscape taken with Summarits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 1, 2015 Share #9 Posted January 1, 2015 I just noted there is Leica R-Elmar 35-70mm F4 Asph , it seems not that big regarding E60 filter and body size (8x7,5cm)... do you think it can compate with Tri-Elmar 28-35-50mm ? I think you're mistaken; the asph version of the R 35-70 has E77 and weighs 1kg. The E60 version is not asph and weighs half a kg. The TriElmar weighs 340grams. What kind of landscape, for hiking? The asph Vario R without tripod? I doubt it. Anyway, only the asph version of the R version might be as as good as the Tri-Elmar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 1, 2015 Share #10 Posted January 1, 2015 I am not sure yet which camera I will buy for this aim but certainly I will not afford to buy also M240... I think about Sony A7R or expected new A9, maybe another on. If you want Leica, an M8/M8.2 would serve just fine for landscape, particularly with lenses in the focal lengths you cite. Just keep in mind the crop factor (1.33x). Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted January 1, 2015 Share #11 Posted January 1, 2015 I am not sure yet which camera I will buy for this aim but certainly I will not afford to buy also M240... I think about Sony A7R or expected new A9, maybe another on. I will make this decision after CP+ in February. You might be aware that many wide M lenses do not seem to fare well on the current Sony Alpha series cameras with perhaps the exception of the a7s which I do not own. I cannot speculate on what Sony might come out with and how it will accommodate Leica M or R lenses, but only comments from users once a new Sony comes out will help us determine how our M lenses might fair on a new camera. See my PM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
renes Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted January 1, 2015 I think you're mistaken; the asph version of the R 35-70 has E77 and weighs 1kg. The E60 version is not asph and weighs half a kg. Anyway, only the asph version of the R version might be as as good as the Tri-Elmar. "The LEICA VARIO-ELMAR-R 35-70 mm f/2.8 ASPH. was the first lens that could substitute a range of lenses with focal lengths from wide angle lens and the standard lens to the moderate telelens without loss of performance. A very elabo- rate manufacturing and assembly process was required to ensure that the actual performance of the lens matched the design specifications. By now this lens has achieved a cult status within the Leica community and with reason. A year earlier, in 1997, Leica had introduced a lens with a maximum aperture of 1:4 and the same range (35-70 mm) that offered almost identical image quality in a more conve- nient package: the LEICA VARIO-ELMAR-R 35-70 mm f/4. For some reason Leica omitted the designation 'ASPH' for this lens, although it has an aspherical surface. The LEICA VARIO-ELMAR-R 35-70 mm f/4 has 8 elements, arranged in seven groups. One lens element has an aspheri- cally pressed surface. The lens diagram indicates the two main groups and one can see that the front group has a close resemblance to the front group of the LEICA VARIO-ELMAR- R 35-70 mm f/ 2.8 ASPH. and the second group is adapted from the previous LEICA VARIO-ELMAR-R 35-70 mm f/3.5. Casual inspection shows that the LEICA TRI-ELMAR-M 28-50 mm f/4 ASPH. is also closely related to the Leica Vario- Elmar-R, with the big difference that the M version has two aspherical surfaces". http://www.overgaard.dk/pdf/Leica-35-70-f4-%20R-lenses.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 1, 2015 Share #13 Posted January 1, 2015 'For some reason Leica omitted...' Right. Leica is quite consciencious in these things and will have had there good reasons for the name-giving. Mr Overgaard can be quite loose in evaluating lenses as you can find elsewhere on this forum. But my point remains the same: I severely doubt whether the first 35-70 Vario R can compete with the tri-elmar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 1, 2015 Share #14 Posted January 1, 2015 I just noted there is Leica R-Elmar 35-70mm F4 Asph , it seems not that big regarding E60 filter and body size (8x7,5cm)... do you think it can compate with Tri-Elmar 28-35-50mm ? Yes it can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted January 1, 2015 Share #15 Posted January 1, 2015 'For some reason Leica omitted...' Right. Leica is quite consciencious in these things and will have had there good reasons for the name-giving. Mr Overgaard can be quite loose in evaluating lenses as you can find elsewhere on this forum Yes, he is right, as Puts confirms in his Leica Chronicle… The Vario-Elmar-R 1:4 35-70, introduced in 1997, has been designed in Solms and built in Japan, has 8 lenses, of which one surface is aspherical. It is a bit strange that the usual ASPH description is lacking, but this may be for marketing reasons (original text in press documents: aspherical lens, treated "with innovative techniques, which the Leica Camera Group is currently developing." BTW, this is not the first or only time Leica marketing trumped technical specs, whether dealing with aspherical surfaces or apo designations, as discussed elsewhere by Karbe or others. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 1, 2015 Share #16 Posted January 1, 2015 'For some reason Leica omitted...' Right. Leica is quite consciencious in these things and will have had there good reasons for the name-giving. The asph surface is mentionned in the specs. See herewith. LeicaR_357040_specs.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
james.liam Posted January 1, 2015 Share #17 Posted January 1, 2015 The MATE is a great choice if you can live with the weight, rarity (especially of the final version) & cost. Have you considered the ZM 2/35 Biogon? It's characteristics are well-suited to your landscape work. Leica is quite consciencious in these things and will have had there good reasons for the name-giving. [/Quote] The 50 Summilux ASPH is by most account APO while the 35 Summarit always contained an aspherical surface but only now with the identical f/2.4 iteration is it mentioned. Not so certain about the conscientiousness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted January 1, 2015 Share #18 Posted January 1, 2015 Still, the MDF graphs in Puts' book give me reasons for my doubt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted January 1, 2015 Share #19 Posted January 1, 2015 I really like the 21 Elmarit ASPH and the 24, they take B&W landscape shots extremely well, particularly the 21 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted January 1, 2015 Share #20 Posted January 1, 2015 Still, the MDF graphs in Puts' book give me reasons for my doubt You may wish to compare the Leica MTF graph for both lenses (see herewith). LeicaM_283550_11625_tech.pdf LeicaR_357040_specs.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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