wlaidlaw Posted December 25, 2014 Share #21 Posted December 25, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nikon makes a flash extension cord that allows you to use the flash off camera for bounce flash. I find this effective to diffuse the effect of the flash and bounce to off the wall or ceiling. There are threads here that discuss this in detail. It is the Nikon SC 28. It is listed as stretching out to 9 feet but 6 is more like it. It is also an interesting exercise to hold the flash off camera and hold and focus the camera. I made a wrist strap and let the flash dangle until I am ready to shoot. It is a pretty good little flash. If I am going to be taking a lot of flash shots, particularly with the heavy SF58D, I too use the Nikon SC28 cord but also use a Manfrotto flash bar under the camera. This is a much more balanced set up than the very top heavy set up with it on the shoe. I was contemplating getting the SCA adapter for my MF grip on the M240 but it is rumoured that this is less than well developed and reliable (Leica - poor electronics, well who would have credited that ). Of course, being Leica, it is also not cheap. Now that I have a f0.95 Noctilux, I use flash a whole lot less than I did, so I will hold off on the SCA adapter. Now that I have had my cataracts done and laser surgery, focusing with the rangefinder in low light is a whole lot better. I was having to use peaking on either the LCD screen or EVF, the latter of which of course, you can't do with a flash or SC28 cord attached. Wilson PS I would recommend not buying an ersatz Nikon SC 28 cord. You may well find as I did, that the connections were very flaky with the Leica flash contacts (Buy cheap = Buy Twice). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 25, 2014 Posted December 25, 2014 Hi wlaidlaw, Take a look here M240 Sf 24D. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Fang Posted December 25, 2014 Share #22 Posted December 25, 2014 Well u can try doing this http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other-leica-products/260218-my-tilting-leica-sf-24d-flash.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freitz Posted December 25, 2014 Author Share #23 Posted December 25, 2014 I wI'll post some samples for everyone tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freitz Posted December 26, 2014 Author Share #24 Posted December 26, 2014 Once I was able to edit the photos I think they turned out great. What do you guys think here are two of the shots. L1002541.jpg by freitz1, on Flickr L1002649.jpg by freitz1, on Flickr And one without Flash @ 1600 ISO L1002514.jpg by freitz1, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 7, 2015 Share #25 Posted April 7, 2015 You could try taping some plain white paper over the flash to 'reduce' light output, which means that you would need more light into the camera and hence larger aperture. In A or TTL mode that does not work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted April 7, 2015 Share #26 Posted April 7, 2015 Re post #24, I think you did a great job. The highlights are controlled and you isolated nicely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted April 7, 2015 Share #27 Posted April 7, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Wilson, my understanding of GNC (guide number control) is that the output is determined by the distance of subject to camera (taking into account, of course, the aperture and ISO). It is the method often used by P&S cameras to regulate the flash output and is usually quite accurate. An M camera has no way of communicating the subject to camera distance to the flash unit (nor indeed the aperture) so GNC wouldn't make any sense in this context. Leica digital cameras do use a GNC mode with the older flash units and this does involve a pre flash (with a significant delay). I still have a Metz 54 Mz3i and SCA 3502(5) and I remember the pain of getting the thing to go into GVC mode for use on the M9. The SF24 uses this same system for the digital bodies as the Mertz SCA system flashes. The newer SF58 and SF26 use digital TTL on Leica digital cameras and are much more accurate and efficient. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted April 7, 2015 Share #28 Posted April 7, 2015 I use my Sf24 solely for testing focus accuracy of lenses, maybe two times a year. It's only redeeming quality is size. If using flash I would opt for a small automatic flash, which I have not found yet. Leica Store LA says there is a firmware upgrade forthcoming for the Sf26 on the M, perhaps it will provide features the 24 lacks. Once upon a time an instructor at the Nikon School said an M3 bulb directed into the corner near the ceiling of an average room gives a nice diffuse flash effect, I never tried it and M3 bulbs are long gone but the concept would also work with a powerful strobe, using the 24 as a trigger. I wonder what the firmware upgrade will do. I use the SF26 on my M bodies and apart from no FEC it works quite well. Swivel would be nice but I have an SF58 for when I need that and swivel bounce usually needs the power of a bigger unit anyway. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted April 7, 2015 Share #29 Posted April 7, 2015 Since replying to this thread last year I came across a solution for the SF24D (and SF20) that works very well and is quite inexpensive. I posted it a while ago and it has been working like a charm for me. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/other-leica-products/359639-leica-sf24d-sf20-bounce-solution.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 7, 2015 Share #30 Posted April 7, 2015 Leica digital cameras do use a GNC mode with the older flash units and this does involve a pre flash (with a significant delay). I still have a Metz 54 Mz3i and SCA 3502(5) and I remember the pain of getting the thing to go into GVC mode for use on the M9. The SF24 uses this same system for the digital bodies as the Mertz SCA system flashes. The newer SF58 and SF26 use digital TTL on Leica digital cameras and are much more accurate and efficient. Thank you for bringing this up, Gordon. I've read so much hogwash regarding the SF 24D that I've about given up. For example, one site that floats to the top of a Google search claims that the sensor below the flash determines the TTL measure. Wrong! How much worse can it get? Why does not the SF 24D read the ISO from the camera? Crazy. Leica's own manual is so very difficult for my weary mind to plow through. So, has anyone made a SIMPLE guide through this thing? Maybe the best is for Leica to write, "Put the flash in A and be done with it!" An alternative is to write, "Put into TTL and live with it." Leica's description of + - adjustment could be put into simple English (or even German). I am tired, impatient at the moment; I do resent that Leica does not have the SF 24D manual online. Are they ashamed of it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted April 7, 2015 Share #31 Posted April 7, 2015 Why does not the SF 24D read the ISO from the camera? IIRC both of mine read the ISO from the camera. In AUTO too. I never use TTL. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 8, 2015 Share #32 Posted April 8, 2015 IIRC both of mine read the ISO from the camera. In AUTO too. I never use TTL. Ah, your are correct. One simply has to understand the sequence of setting the ISO in camera has no effect upon the flash until we do some gymnastics of restarting the camera and flash. My thirty years of software interface development informs me that this setup is not acceptable. No disrespect to you, Sir. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted April 8, 2015 Share #33 Posted April 8, 2015 I have used my Metz flashes (54 and 58) in Auto forever. I take a test pic and make sure the settings on the camera work with the light that the flash is putting out in its own way. I have posted elsewhere that I have converted to Quantum flashes from the Metz flashes as a result of the Metz's burning out under heavy usage. I am also using the Quantum flashes in Auto mode. These guys are way smarter than I am. Regards to all, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted April 8, 2015 Share #34 Posted April 8, 2015 Ah, your are correct. One simply has to understand the sequence of setting the ISO in camera has no effect upon the flash until we do some gymnastics of restarting the camera and flash. My thirty years of software interface development informs me that this setup is not acceptable. No disrespect to you, Sir. . I never noticed that, probably because I tend not to change the ISO frequently, and maybe when I did the camera and/or flash had gone into sleep mode so when they woke up the ISO was recognized. I honestly don't recall. I'll have to play with it next time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted April 8, 2015 Share #35 Posted April 8, 2015 I have used my Metz flashes (54 and 58) in Auto forever. I use auto all the time too. The only time I found TTL to me more accurate was with macro and long tele (with a fresnel magnifier). In those cases the parallax and/or fixed angle of coverage of the auto sensor was a limiting factor. Same with TTL in-camera metering actually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 8, 2015 Share #36 Posted April 8, 2015 Leica digital cameras do use a GNC mode with the older flash units and this does involve a pre flash (with a significant delay). I still have a Metz 54 Mz3i and SCA 3502(5) and I remember the pain of getting the thing to go into GVC mode for use on the M9. The SF24 uses this same system for the digital bodies as the Mertz SCA system flashes. The newer SF58 and SF26 use digital TTL on Leica digital cameras and are much more accurate and efficient. Gordon My SF58 still does a pre-flash on on any of my M digital bodies when in GNC mode. I don't know if this is different with the V2 firmware, which I am still annoyed that my early SF58 cannot be upgraded to, even though the sales blurb said that the firmware would be upgradable via the USB slot. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted April 8, 2015 Share #37 Posted April 8, 2015 My SF58 still does a pre-flash on on any of my M digital bodies when in GNC mode....Wilson Isn't this the way it is supposed to work? When I use GNC, I always get a pre flash -- and avoid it because the subjects think the picture is over after the first flash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted April 8, 2015 Share #38 Posted April 8, 2015 Bill, That is what I thought but I wondered if flash/GNC worked differently on the Mk2 SF58, if you had it on an M240 in live view mode (my guess is not). My Mk 1 and SF24 still pre-flash on all modes of the M240, but then they were made prior to the M240 being released. Wilson Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted April 9, 2015 Share #39 Posted April 9, 2015 My SF58 still does a pre-flash on on any of my M digital bodies when in GNC mode. I don't know if this is different with the V2 firmware, which I am still annoyed that my early SF58 cannot be upgraded to, even though the sales blurb said that the firmware would be upgradable via the USB slot. Wilson I have both a Mk1 and MK2 version of the SF 58. The V2 is definitely quicker. If there is a pre-flash it's essentially invisible. Also it seamlessly switches from TTL to HSS-TTL. The MK2 operates much like a similar flash from Canon or Nikon. While I too use the 54mz3i as an auto flash I'll use the 58 Mk2 as a TTL flash. I got the MK1 so I'd have a backup and it's use is less frequent than the mk2. The MK1 is much more like the old GNC flashes (54mz3i etc) in feel although it does have HSS-TTL and flash exposure compensation, which aren't possible on a true GNC flash. I think it's in between the 54mz3i and 58mk2 in speed of operation. Those functions require a readout while the shutter is open (digital TTL). The difference between the mk1 and mk2 reminds me of the difference between Canon's ETTL and ETTL2. Same result just much faster. And I too agree that's it is highly annoying that the firmware isn't upgradable as per Leica and Metz's advertising. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted April 9, 2015 Share #40 Posted April 9, 2015 Bill, That is what I thought but I wondered if flash/GNC worked differently on the Mk2 SF58, if you had it on an M240 in live view mode (my guess is not). My Mk 1 and SF24 still pre-flash on all modes of the M240, but then they were made prior to the M240 being released. Wilson Live view adds another layer of complexity because when the shutter closes before the exposure the flash will then begin it's processes. In effect you're getting the addition of two delays (live view and TTL flash). Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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