erl Posted December 18, 2014 Share #81 Posted December 18, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just to keep the M9 images rolling, here are another three, all with 75mm Cron, shot in the Goreme Valley, Capadocia, Turkey, last October. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730366'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 18, 2014 Posted December 18, 2014 Hi erl, Take a look here In defence of the CCD sensor in the Leica M Cameras. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
wattsy Posted December 18, 2014 Share #82 Posted December 18, 2014 I might be without my favorite camera for brief periods every couple of years Good one. Hopefully the situation will improve but the current wait time for Monochrom sensor replacement is three months and that's just a vague hope on Leica's part, not a promise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 18, 2014 Share #83 Posted December 18, 2014 I don't explain. I look at my M9 and M240 shots.... I find very little to prefer one over the other based on sensor technology.Peripherals - the different Bayer filters, the difference in resolution, in noise behaviour, OK. But not the basic capture of the photons. I've used lots of cameras with CMOS sensors and do prefer the output from the CCD in the M9 probably because of its "peripherals' - noise, ability to pull shadows more easily, and such like. M9 noise actually feels far more analogue to me than any CMOS noise that I've worked with I'm not sure what 'basic capture of the photons' means - there were lots of different film which all used a similar technology but which had substantially different output, The M8 and M9 are quirky and certainly produce quite different files from other cameras which I happen to like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 18, 2014 Share #84 Posted December 18, 2014 I've used lots of cameras with CMOS sensors and do prefer the output from the CCD in the M9 probably because of its "peripherals' - noise, ability to pull shadows more easily, and such like. M9 noise actually feels far more analogue to me than any CMOS noise that I've worked with I'm not sure what 'basic capture of the photons' means - there were lots of different film which all used a similar technology but which had substantially different output, The M8 and M9 are quirky and certainly produce quite different files from other cameras which I happen to like. I absolutely agree with you about the quality of the M9 noise. I equate it to 'good' film grain and almost never try to elininate it from my high ISO pics. Now that my M9 is in for sensor replacement, I have returned to my M8's. Strangely, even though I claim the M9 as a superior camera, I actually prefer the colour output of the M8, I just realized. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 18, 2014 Share #85 Posted December 18, 2014 Reason why I am always quick to use an IR filter on the M9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted December 18, 2014 Share #86 Posted December 18, 2014 I've used lots of cameras with CMOS sensors and do prefer the output from the CCD in the M9 probably because of its "peripherals' - noise, ability to pull shadows more easily, and such like. M9 noise actually feels far more analogue to me than any CMOS noise that I've worked with. The CMOS sensor outputs digital, oversamples the pixels, and does on-chip signal averaging. Noise is "instantaneous" and gets averaged over two samples. The CMOS has a lower native saturation, but again over-sampling extends the dynamic range. The CCD- analog output from the sensor, you rely on low dark-current, higher saturation count native to the chip. The differences are subtle in the final image, but some people seem to pick it up. M9, ISO 2500, 50/1.1 Nokton wide-open. 1/60th and 1/90th respectively. It was dark, and the subject kept moving. Skating- M9 and 50/1.1Nokton Skating- M9 and 50/1.1Nokton I use Tiffen "Hot Mirror" filters over the 50/1.1 and 35/1.2 Noktons, unless using them on the M Monochrom. Not quite as strong as the B&W and Leica UV/IR cut filters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted December 18, 2014 Share #87 Posted December 18, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) ..... I actually prefer the colour output of the M8, I just realized. Funny you should say that, and I'd actually go further and say that the M8 with certain lenses (the 21mm f/3.4 super angulon for example) and in some colour situations (especially where there is a lot of dominant blue and cyan) can produce a look which can be very impressive and very difficult to reproduce otherwise. On the other hand some foliage is a nightmare on the M8 (UVIR fitted or not). The M8 - a quirky camera with its own distinctive colour personality;). And FWIW the old Fuji S2Pro dSLR was another colourwise too - I had one and found it to be a 'love some shots/hate some shots camera' but never boring to use. In today's world where technical 'perfection' is apparently prized above much else, I actually prefer to use tools which make me think:eek:. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRIago Posted December 18, 2014 Share #88 Posted December 18, 2014 M9 + 35mm Summicron-M Asph. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730589'>More sharing options...
proy Posted December 18, 2014 Share #89 Posted December 18, 2014 Prague at twilight with M9 and 18 Super Elmar... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730798'>More sharing options...
proy Posted December 18, 2014 Share #90 Posted December 18, 2014 And one M9 + Noctilux And one M9 + 35 Summilux FLE Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730802'>More sharing options...
TRIago Posted December 18, 2014 Share #91 Posted December 18, 2014 M9 + 35mm Summicron-M Asph. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730820'>More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted December 18, 2014 Share #92 Posted December 18, 2014 The CMOS sensor outputs digital, oversamples the pixels, and does on-chip signal averaging. Noise is "instantaneous" and gets averaged over two samples. The CMOS has a lower native saturation, but again over-sampling extends the dynamic range. The CCD- analog output from the sensor, you rely on low dark-current, higher saturation count native to the chip. The differences are subtle in the final image, but some people seem to pick it up. M9, ISO 2500, 50/1.1 Nokton wide-open. 1/60th and 1/90th respectively. It was dark, and the subject kept moving. I use Tiffen "Hot Mirror" filters over the 50/1.1 and 35/1.2 Noktons, unless using them on the M Monochrom. Not quite as strong as the B&W and Leica UV/IR cut filters. Great post, TY so much. This one right out of the camera, DNG, today: Randolf by unoh7, 50 cron WO L1025527 by unoh7, 50 cron WO The whole thing about how the M9 has an ISO problem, or can't do low light. I don't get it. My A7 has major crispness loss by 1k. After some time with the M9 I realized I can take it anywhere. Poser by unoh7, CV50/1.1 WO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurgalvao Posted December 19, 2014 Share #93 Posted December 19, 2014 I too am hesitant on abandoning my good old CCD. I love the look I get from it and am scared of moving on. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2731055'>More sharing options...
otto.f Posted December 19, 2014 Share #94 Posted December 19, 2014 I too am hesitant on abandoning my good old CCD. I love the look I get from it and am scared of moving on. better than scared of keeping your money in your pocket Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted December 19, 2014 Share #95 Posted December 19, 2014 I find it so easy to operate as well... this one is shot just after sunset from horse back pointing backward and zone focusing (easy with 28 cron) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2731328'>More sharing options...
otto.f Posted December 19, 2014 Share #96 Posted December 19, 2014 Btw I would need a new iMac for the 24Mp files, which I do not need for the M9 or M8. I must say that I was a little disappointed sometimes with my M9 after M8, but the change from M9 to M240 seems a quantum leap to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenmangu81 Posted December 19, 2014 Share #97 Posted December 19, 2014 I love the M9 because of its CCD sensor, but it could be only in my imagination, as some people say that M has the same rendering with higher dynamics. Anyway, this is with M9 and Summilux 50. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2731451'>More sharing options...
jmahto Posted December 19, 2014 Share #98 Posted December 19, 2014 I love the M9 because of its CCD sensor, but it could be only in my imagination, as some people say that M has the same rendering with higher dynamics.Anyway, this is with M9 and Summilux 50. I have now enough experience to compare the two. I will say that in *base* ISO there is practically *no* difference (except few more pixels) for sensor output. It can go head to head with any sensor. Higher dynamics also helps with only few pictures. It doesn't save us from incorrect exposure. Printed paper is limited to 6 stops and computer screen limited to 10 and M9 DR is plenty enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 19, 2014 Share #99 Posted December 19, 2014 You forgot the major limiting factor! The photographer!! LOL Only speaking for myself of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsteb Posted December 20, 2014 Share #100 Posted December 20, 2014 I love the organic look of the CCD, especially in its stripped down form, in the M Monochrom. Here are a few of mine, shot in Glasgow, where I live. The first three were on the M Monochrom, and the shot of the tower blocks at the end was on the M9 I used to own. Best wishes all, Colin I recognize those images Colin ; ) David S Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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