pgk Posted December 17, 2014 Share #61 Posted December 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) An interesting thread. Although I have seen some pretty good photography, I have not seen one shot that makes a point specifically for a CCD sensor.... That is because you would need to see the unadjusted raw file and preferably a good sized print (tricky on-line;)). Its also about file flexibility too, noise (which has its own characteristics) and more. How do you explain something that is learned and refined over several years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted December 17, 2014 Posted December 17, 2014 Hi pgk, Take a look here In defence of the CCD sensor in the Leica M Cameras. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted December 17, 2014 Share #62 Posted December 17, 2014 I don't explain. I look at my M9 and M240 shots.... I find very little to prefer one over the other based on sensor technology. Peripherals - the different Bayer filters, the difference in resolution, in noise behaviour, OK. But not the basic capture of the photons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted December 17, 2014 Share #63 Posted December 17, 2014 I don't explain. I look at my M9 and M240 shots.... I find very little to prefer one over the other based on sensor technology.Peripherals - the different Bayer filters, the difference in resolution, in noise behaviour, OK. But not the basic capture of the photons. M240 fans talk about better off-camera jpegs, but what about these captures of fireworks then? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m-typ-240/356768-ueberlegungen-sensortausch-m9-vs-upgrade-m-2.html Post #25 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 17, 2014 Share #64 Posted December 17, 2014 I wouldn't know. I haven't used an in camera jpg in nine years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted December 17, 2014 Share #65 Posted December 17, 2014 M9 was special (to me) not because of CCD sensor... it was special because it *discouraged* chimping to a level that I got rid of the habit within few weeks of ownership. It gave me freedom. Now my m9 is gone (replaced by M240) and sometimes I catch myself chimping again. I loved my M9 and I hope this thread should not degenerate into M9vs240 (or CCD vs CMOS) since I am enjoying the lovely images made by M9 in this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 17, 2014 Share #66 Posted December 17, 2014 Ian, I like this composition….but the cliff at left appears 'washed out' on my screen…if so, not sure if that's your intent or aesthetic preference. Ordinarily I wouldn't comment on someone's pic, but since this thread is specifically to highlight (so to speak) superior CCD rendering. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 17, 2014 Share #67 Posted December 17, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jeff, my opinion on Ian's fine image above is that had the cliffs been darker, they would 'overbalance' the image to 'tip' to the left. As it is, the tonal balances work aesthetically well, IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 17, 2014 Share #68 Posted December 17, 2014 Jeff, my opinion on Ian's fine image above is that had the cliffs been darker Erl, I specifically meant the larger cliff, which for me would render more effectively if it were slightly darker, and/or didn't lose texture, compared the smaller, more distant cliff….although I agree that both should be light enough to balance the photo. My real question, though, relates to the out-of-camera rendering (and file handling), not Ian's editing preferences…I like the photo, so no offense intended. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted December 17, 2014 Share #69 Posted December 17, 2014 Although M9 and I are now separated.... the loving feeling remains... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730151'>More sharing options...
MaDeVa Posted December 17, 2014 Share #70 Posted December 17, 2014 Leica M-E, Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH Massimo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 17, 2014 Share #71 Posted December 17, 2014 Jayant, a truly great photo. I would happily put my name to it if I could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted December 17, 2014 Share #72 Posted December 17, 2014 Not sure if we (self included) are wandering off topic a bit. Some fine images here but they are really testament to the respective photographer rather than the M9, which clearly we all love. Earlier, Jaap had a point about the ability of the M240 being equally able to make any these pictures, which is true, but with differences in rendering I believe. There are some things that both the M9 and M240 can do that the other can't. I believe much of those differences will not not be faithfully demonstrated on a computer. For me, hardcopy prints are the only real test of what a camera can deliver and what I like. This fact alone will always have me welded to my M9 for certain things, despite if I ever get an M240, which at present is not imminent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted December 17, 2014 Share #73 Posted December 17, 2014 I want to stand up and shout from the rooftops, in the 31 years of being a professional photographer, The Leica M9P, is the best camera I’ve ever owned and used. There, I’ve got it of my chest now .Other Leica M9/M9P ME and M Monochrom owners can join me in the same celebration if you like, those of you who have had problems as discussed at length can join me too, when your M9/M9P as been repaired and returned . Those of you who have been waiting for an excuse to upgrade your M9/M9P ME and M Monochrom to the latest greatest Leica M, will never be satisfied with the latest greatest Leica M . Can join as well . The CCD sensor will be the last in a Leica M, so lets celebrate in style by contributing pictures from and exceptional camera that will never be seen again . Lets put it up there where it belongs . Mike Leng, tired at the negativity in most of the threads on this Leica Forum I’ll start :- M9P 35mm lens 1250 ISO [ATTACH]473530[/ATTACH] Just a reminder that Mike never said that these are images that only the M9 could make. The thread is really just a celebration of the camera and its owners. Now lets get back in that spirit and keep posting great images!!! M9, 50/2 v5 Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730234'>More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted December 17, 2014 Share #74 Posted December 17, 2014 Although M9 and I are now separated.... the loving feeling remains... This is my favourite so far. Brilliant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted December 18, 2014 Share #75 Posted December 18, 2014 Ian, I like this composition….but the cliff at left appears 'washed out' on my screen…if so, not sure if that's your intent or aesthetic preference. Ordinarily I wouldn't comment on someone's pic, but since this thread is specifically to highlight (so to speak) superior CCD rendering. I suspect I probably popped on a virtual yellow or orange filter in the conversion from colour and quite liked the effect of the cliffs "washing out". You'll see from the original colour that the cliffs, being the only part of the scene in direct sunlight, were tonally quite different from the beach and foreground action. One other consideration is that the photo above is hosted via Flickr which tends to increase the contrast (or at least mess with the gamma) of posted photos. The same photo is also hosted here on my Tumblr website and (on my monitor) is subtly different and closer to my non-posted PSD file. Re: superiority of CCD rendering, I don't really have any strong views. I simply haven't yet wanted to buy an M240 and thought I'd join in the love for the M9 (even though I've since sold both my M9 type colour digitals:D). Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730246'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted December 18, 2014 Share #76 Posted December 18, 2014 I rather prefer the B&W version. I think the cliffs are just right, it gives a bit of a vintage feel to the image, somehow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwesi Posted December 18, 2014 Share #77 Posted December 18, 2014 One more, from the series "Am I You?" M9P, 50/2 v5 Kwesi Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730256'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted December 18, 2014 Share #78 Posted December 18, 2014 I suspect I probably popped on a virtual yellow or orange filter in the conversion from colour and quite liked the effect of the cliffs "washing out". You'll see from the original colour that the cliffs, being the only part of the scene in direct sunlight, were tonally quite different from the beach and foreground action. One other consideration is that the photo above is hosted via Flickr which tends to increase the contrast (or at least mess with the gamma) of posted photos. Thanks for that….the color version clarifies the basis for the conversion…not really a CCD vs CMOS issue. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted December 18, 2014 Share #79 Posted December 18, 2014 Personally, what I plan to do is keep my MM and just have sensors replaced until a permanent solution is found. I might be without my favorite camera for brief periods every couple of years, but I've never shot with any camera, film or digital, that I like using as much as the Monochrom. This shot was done at ISO 5000. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/238441-in-defence-of-the-ccd-sensor-in-the-leica-m-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=2730344'>More sharing options...
uhoh7 Posted December 18, 2014 Share #80 Posted December 18, 2014 I don't explain. I look at my M9 and M240 shots.... I find very little to prefer one over the other based on sensor technology.Peripherals - the different Bayer filters, the difference in resolution, in noise behaviour, OK. But not the basic capture of the photons. Comparison is inevitable, as the M9 and M240 produce very different results, and have very different flaws. Most of the time, anyway. Not always. Edward has a striking set over the FM leica image thread right now where the ZM35/2 is looking very M9ish, but he is also having fits to find a profile to deal with color shift on that lens, which is flawless on the M9, sans profile. Adam went into detail about how the 240 is far more prone to flare than the M9. etc. For me the "iso issue" is moot, because I have some fast lenses for when it gets dim, and they take the M9 basically anywhere. In fact the M9 loves so many lenses, it's a joy to play the collection. Edward, and Ron, and a number of others, really prefer the M240, and I respect that, and very much enjoy their images. But to my own taste, regarding the basic output, it's simply no contest. I would not know a bayer array from a box of cheerios, but the M9 has a very distinct sensor, that's for sure. You will never edit all the way to a great clean M9 image, but of course you can take an M9 file a very long ways in other directions. The raws are excellent. Many images out of my M9 I simply do not touch. I like them exactly the way the camera makes them (uncompressed DNG). I never had a digital camera like that before. Gives me lots of extra time to write silly posts like this LOL Here 2 from today: L1025657 by unoh7, on Flickr L1025626 by unoh7, on Flickr both shots with the wonderful CV 90/3.5 APO, small, light, cheap and sharp Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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